He's referring to the 7410, which was the (long in coming) die shrunk 7400 G4, not the G3.
i don't know how safe it is to talk about what usually happens in these terms. The iBook beat the rest of Apple's line to AirPort because it made sense for the model. The PowerMacs might get the 7457 first just because the notebooks were recently updated, not because the chip "makes more sense" in them. A smaller, cooler, cheaper G4 is great for laptops too.
Apple could silently update to a newer processor without telling anyone, or without changing the clockspeed. The 7457 is a drop-in replacement so switching to it isn't a big deal.
Yes, those all could be true. I was under the impression it's a new board because the old one had topped out tho, but I wasn't given many specifics, jsut a new G4 mobo that is very hot. It was due last year but they could not solve the heat issues.
<strong>Well the G4 I was told about has a new mobo design so I'm not sure if that means it could just be dropped in or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It could mean that Apple's going to update a lot of other things to compensate for the lack of a major processor upgrade.
A dual 1.4GHz machine might be easier to swallow if it shipped with dual-channel ATA RAID, PCI-X, FW800, AirPort Extreme, onboard Bluetooth, etc.
Since Apple will have to roll out a memory controller that can feed two (or more) dedicated busses for the 970, maybe they can roll out an intermediate model that supports two MaxBuses with two processors each! Not that I think that'll happen. It's enough work supporting one. But I can see Apple rolling out as many upgrades as possible to keep the PowerMac attractive. They don't have to save everything for the 970 - that'll be news enough by itself.
<strong>A dual 1.4GHz machine might be easier to swallow if it shipped with dual-channel ATA RAID, PCI-X, FW800, AirPort Extreme, onboard Bluetooth, etc.
Since Apple will have to roll out a memory controller that can feed two (or more) dedicated busses for the 970, maybe they can roll out an intermediate model that supports two MaxBuses with two processors each! Not that I think that'll happen. It's enough work supporting one. But I can see Apple rolling out as many upgrades as possible to keep the PowerMac attractive. They don't have to save everything for the 970 - that'll be news enough by itself.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard. Now imagine a motherboard with a HyperTransport or RIO bus running from a motherboard controller that has PCI-X, Firewire, ethernet, ATA, and all other IO on the main board and it connects to the daughtercard that houses the processor(s), memory controller/Hypertransport/RIO bridge chipset to the motherboard. For a 7457 machine it would have G4 processors connecting to the main controller via MPX (maybe at faster than 200MHz speeds since the proximity of the chips will help with speed) and the main controller will connect to the DIMM slots and peripheral controller on the motherboard. To make a 970 machine you would only need to replace the G4 card with a 970 chipset and 970 processor. Hmm, it would make a G4/970 line up easier to handle.
There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard. Now imagine a motherboard with a HyperTransport or RIO bus running from a motherboard controller that has PCI-X, Firewire, ethernet, ATA, and all other IO on the main board and it connects to the daughtercard that houses the processor(s), memory controller/Hypertransport/RIO bridge chipset to the motherboard. For a 7457 machine it would have G4 processors connecting to the main controller via MPX (maybe at faster than 200MHz speeds since the proximity of the chips will help with speed) and the main controller will connect to the DIMM slots and peripheral controller on the motherboard. To make a 970 machine you would only need to replace the G4 card with a 970 chipset and 970 processor. Hmm, it would make a G4/970 line up easier to handle.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>That's exactly what changed, actually. PCMCIA doesn't have the bandwidth to support 802.11g, so Apple switched to a small PCI bus.</strong><hr></blockquote>Not enough for 54 Kbps, but enough for FireWire? Carbus is not the bottleneck here..
I think the Mini-PCI is for some future sweetnes..
<strong>There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who said anything about a daughtercard? I see a lot of posts assuming that there will be one, but it's not guaranteed; Apple could just put everything on the motherboard.
Geneva, Switzerland and Austin, Texas_January 20, 2003
Just wondering what impact these announcements on any timelines Motorola and/or IBM have on implementing this technology into processors like the MPC7457-RM and the IBM 75X
If I read this correctly, we may have quite a wait to see any Rapid I/O in any desktop processors. Any one with more knowledge have a better insight??
[ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]
oh brother did I mess up the URL's, hope they're corrected now
<strong>Who said anything about a daughtercard? I see a lot of posts assuming that there will be one, but it's not guaranteed; Apple could just put everything on the motherboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple currently uses a daughtercard for its processors+L3 cache. Given the 970+companion chip architecture and their high speed connection it does make some sense to use a high quality daughtercard to hold those components, and then share the motherboard between machines with different processors and processor configurations. It also allows the motherboard to be built to a lower standard to save costs.
Comments
<strong>
i dont know... havent there been cases where the powerbooks were the first to use a new processor?
wallstreets come to mind and the 7410....maybe not...cant remember</strong><hr></blockquote>
no... no... no...
the wallstreet was the fastest G3 in the street with a 292Mhz G3 and a 83Mhz bus (and 14.1" screen an dvd playback and so on) not the first with a G3
i don't know how safe it is to talk about what usually happens in these terms. The iBook beat the rest of Apple's line to AirPort because it made sense for the model. The PowerMacs might get the 7457 first just because the notebooks were recently updated, not because the chip "makes more sense" in them. A smaller, cooler, cheaper G4 is great for laptops too.
If 854x is a fully PPC-compliant chip running at up to 1GHz with DDR support, here are 2 silly questions:
1) can it run OS X?
2) can it be used in DSP?
Anyway, you know what I mean.
<strong>Slightly off-topic.
If 854x is a fully PPC-compliant chip running at up to 1GHz with DDR support, here are 2 silly questions:
1) can it run OS X?
2) can it be used in DSP?
Anyway, you know what I mean.</strong><hr></blockquote>
2 big problems with that chip being used in a computer system. 1. It does not have Altivec. 2. Worse, it does not have an FPU.
[ 01-21-2003: Message edited by: Bigc ]</p>
Firewire 800 - needs a new or modified controller plus the ports to support it.
Airport Extreme - has a new slot; looks more like a small PCI connector than a PCMCIA connector.
Bluetooth - needs to be added to the controller.
<strong>Well the G4 I was told about has a new mobo design so I'm not sure if that means it could just be dropped in or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It could mean that Apple's going to update a lot of other things to compensate for the lack of a major processor upgrade.
A dual 1.4GHz machine might be easier to swallow if it shipped with dual-channel ATA RAID, PCI-X, FW800, AirPort Extreme, onboard Bluetooth, etc.
Since Apple will have to roll out a memory controller that can feed two (or more) dedicated busses for the 970, maybe they can roll out an intermediate model that supports two MaxBuses with two processors each! Not that I think that'll happen.
[ 01-21-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
<strong>
Airport Extreme - has a new slot; looks more like a small PCI connector than a PCMCIA connector.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's exactly what changed, actually. PCMCIA doesn't have the bandwidth to support 802.11g, so Apple switched to a small PCI bus.
<strong>A dual 1.4GHz machine might be easier to swallow if it shipped with dual-channel ATA RAID, PCI-X, FW800, AirPort Extreme, onboard Bluetooth, etc.
Since Apple will have to roll out a memory controller that can feed two (or more) dedicated busses for the 970, maybe they can roll out an intermediate model that supports two MaxBuses with two processors each! Not that I think that'll happen.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard. Now imagine a motherboard with a HyperTransport or RIO bus running from a motherboard controller that has PCI-X, Firewire, ethernet, ATA, and all other IO on the main board and it connects to the daughtercard that houses the processor(s), memory controller/Hypertransport/RIO bridge chipset to the motherboard. For a 7457 machine it would have G4 processors connecting to the main controller via MPX (maybe at faster than 200MHz speeds since the proximity of the chips will help with speed) and the main controller will connect to the DIMM slots and peripheral controller on the motherboard. To make a 970 machine you would only need to replace the G4 card with a 970 chipset and 970 processor. Hmm, it would make a G4/970 line up easier to handle.
<strong>
There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard. Now imagine a motherboard with a HyperTransport or RIO bus running from a motherboard controller that has PCI-X, Firewire, ethernet, ATA, and all other IO on the main board and it connects to the daughtercard that houses the processor(s), memory controller/Hypertransport/RIO bridge chipset to the motherboard. For a 7457 machine it would have G4 processors connecting to the main controller via MPX (maybe at faster than 200MHz speeds since the proximity of the chips will help with speed) and the main controller will connect to the DIMM slots and peripheral controller on the motherboard. To make a 970 machine you would only need to replace the G4 card with a 970 chipset and 970 processor. Hmm, it would make a G4/970 line up easier to handle.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll take one...
<strong>That's exactly what changed, actually. PCMCIA doesn't have the bandwidth to support 802.11g, so Apple switched to a small PCI bus.</strong><hr></blockquote>Not enough for 54 Kbps, but enough for FireWire? Carbus is not the bottleneck here..
I think the Mini-PCI is for some future sweetnes..
<strong>Not enough for 54 Kbps, but enough for FireWire? Carbus is not the bottleneck here..
I think the Mini-PCI is for some future sweetnes..</strong><hr></blockquote>
The AirPort slot wasn't CardBus. It was a 16-bit ATA interface or something ridiculous like that.
<strong>There is much speculation that a future 970 machine will need to have the memory/main controller right on the daughtercard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who said anything about a daughtercard? I see a lot of posts assuming that there will be one, but it's not guaranteed; Apple could just put everything on the motherboard.
High-Performance Serial Interconnect Augments Parallel RapidIO
-Austin, Texas July9, 2002-
....Products bases on Serial RapidIO are expected to be sampled to the industry in early 2003.....
<a href="http://www.rapidio.org/data/press/070902.pdf"; target="_blank">RapidIO Interconnect Architecture</a>Accepted as ECMA International Standard
Geneva, Switzerland and Austin, Texas_January 20, 2003
Just wondering what impact these announcements on any timelines Motorola and/or IBM have on implementing this technology into processors like the MPC7457-RM and the IBM 75X
If I read this correctly, we may have quite a wait to see any Rapid I/O in any desktop processors. Any one with more knowledge have a better insight??
[ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]
oh brother did I mess up the URL's, hope they're corrected now
[ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
<strong>Who said anything about a daughtercard? I see a lot of posts assuming that there will be one, but it's not guaranteed; Apple could just put everything on the motherboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple currently uses a daughtercard for its processors+L3 cache. Given the 970+companion chip architecture and their high speed connection it does make some sense to use a high quality daughtercard to hold those components, and then share the motherboard between machines with different processors and processor configurations. It also allows the motherboard to be built to a lower standard to save costs.