American death-toll in Iraq higer than reported?
This Guardian article seems to suggest just that.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...011692,00.html
"We won't be doing bodycounts" was the official US-respons to questions regarding iraqi deaths during the start of Gulf War II. No doubt the higher this number is, the less
support for the war throughout the world.
Now it seems that the number of american cassualties are quite a lot higher than the offical numbers. The article suggests that up to 4000 wounded so far have sent back to the US.
The real battle now is all about securing the occupation-forces pressence in Iraq. It does not seem to be going smooth at all. If number are deliberatly being under-reported, it seems to me just another example of how the american public is being miss-informed systematically to further the goals of the Bush-administration.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...011692,00.html
"We won't be doing bodycounts" was the official US-respons to questions regarding iraqi deaths during the start of Gulf War II. No doubt the higher this number is, the less
support for the war throughout the world.
Now it seems that the number of american cassualties are quite a lot higher than the offical numbers. The article suggests that up to 4000 wounded so far have sent back to the US.
The real battle now is all about securing the occupation-forces pressence in Iraq. It does not seem to be going smooth at all. If number are deliberatly being under-reported, it seems to me just another example of how the american public is being miss-informed systematically to further the goals of the Bush-administration.
Comments
Originally posted by BuonRotto
yes, the 4000 number is wounded at maximum. What I'm adressing is facts and public opinion. or censorship.
Edit: I have to laugh. The reporter sounds aghast that the hospital staff is working 70-80 hour weeks. I guess he's never been to a US hospital. That's an off week for an intern.
Things are not going badly. Occupying and rebuilding a nation which has been raped for 25 years isn't like painting your garage.
Doom! Gloom! The "Q" word!
Originally posted by Towel
Edit: I have to laugh. The reporter sounds aghast that the hospital staff is working 70-80 hour weeks. I guess he's never been to a US hospital. That's an off week for an intern.
Well he's probably european. There are laws against working this much in Europe, especially as an intern.
Originally posted by jimmac
You'd say that under any circumstances.
Not true. I'd say things were going badly if we had 50 Americans killed per day, hundreds of thousands of people burning effigies of Bush, and American forces losing ground on previously taken territory.
The fact is, water and electric have been restored to much of the country. There is a growing police force. Saddam loyalists are being hunted (80 captured yesterday alone) and his two sons are dead. Towns are setting up councils and electing leaders. Elections are planned for 2004. Much of the country is stable, depsite what the hyperventilating media tells you.
This rebuilding will not come fast. It's a makor undertaking and Bush knows that. He's even said as much.
Originally posted by segovius
Interestingly a similar situation pertains to Afghanistan where European reports also detail ongoing casualties and a situation 'not under control'.
I was reading today (in seperate artcles) about intances of suicide amongst US forces in Iraq, the 'gold bars' that were touted as 'Saddam's bullion' and now are admitted by the White House to be brass and a spate of mysterious pneumonia cases in Iraq that have claimed several GI's lives. These were in US media so the censorship argument isn't so clear cut.
Concerning Afghanistan, the ongoing casualties aren't with US troops. You can go to this link to find daily reports on Afghanistan from all over the world... http://www.afghanistannews.net/
And the spate of mysterious pneumonia cases aren't that mysterious if you read the article yesterday that I read. Apparantly there typically is 9 hospitalized pneumonia cases per 10,000 troops in war. These were the numbers in multiple wars including WWII. Extrapolating the 10,000 number to the 145,000 troops we currently have there should be, eventually, 130 troops having to go to the hospital. Also these 100 cases are from March 1, so it's not exactly like it's a sudden outbreak. Another thing, I believe those numbers also included soldiers in the Afghan surrounding areas, as well, so the number of soldiers are even higher.
Regarding your other two criticisms, I don't believe it's a matter of censorship by the US military/government it's probably a lack of following up on a story by the media. There are countless times I've heard and read the media report stories about the Iraq/Afghanistan war and not follow up (e.g. water and electricity in Iraq). This frustartion led me to find the above link I gave you and find some others regarding the situation in Iraq like USAID's website and US Centcom's website; both are good websites to learn about some reconstruction ongoings and not just US casualties.
Notice how the media doesn't report on Afghanistan anymore? It's because there aren't any US casualties over there. Unless we're dying and there's some really bad things happening, it's not news to them. Pathetic!
yes, the 4000 number is wounded at maximum. What I'm adressing is facts and public opinion. or censorship.
As of August 22nd, the number of American deaths is 3721. The number of wounded is 27409. These are the official military-released numbers. Don't dishonor the dead by shoring up the numbers. They're fighting for your freedoms.
Total coalition deaths just broke 4000 a few weeks ago, I don't know the exact date.
I am NOT saying that Al Jazeera provides the 'truth' (as if truth in media exists), but its another side that shows more of the affect of the war on the Iraqi people and how they perceive US intervention. Aren't you interested in their reactions, since we are incurring thousands of human losses and mortgaging our children's future in securing Iraqi 'freedom'? Then watch Al Jazeera every now and then.
For those who believe US officials and think that Al Jazeera is some sort of mouthpeice for Al Qaeda, please watch a movie called 'Control Room'. Its available at Netflix or Blockbuster online. Then ask your cable company to add Al Jazeera to the lineup next to BBC and CNN International. Shame on anyone for criticizing Al Jazeera without having viewed it first hand, especially when its so easy to find.
Not true. I'd say things were going badly if we had 50 Americans killed per day, hundreds of thousands of people burning effigies of Bush, and American forces losing ground on previously taken territory.
The fact is, water and electric have been restored to much of the country. There is a growing police force. Saddam loyalists are being hunted (80 captured yesterday alone) and his two sons are dead. .....
According to the Bush Administration, you mean, and the US media. In the real universe, things are different in Iraq, and since the Gulf War of 1991, things have gone steadily downhill, and the cuurent war has seen things fall apart. And you keep forgetting that the "evil Saddam" was our ally until....
This rebuilding will not come fast. It's a makor undertaking and Bush knows that. He's even said as much.
Bush doesn't have a choice.. the real world has caught up with him... doing the "Chicken-Hawk Strut"® on board aircraft carriers doesnt cut it these days, even with Fox and CNN watchers. We are not leaving Iraq! You know that. It's as "devastating" to leave now, as it would have been 4 years ago, or in 4 years time, (or 14, or 24 years). Pick any number in years.
How much of the "rebuilding" is a result of what was flattened by the "coalition" bombing anyway? Since the "rebuilding" effort is a perpetual earner for the major contractors out there, and they are inextricably linked with the Bush admin anyway, its not as if they are in any danger of profit margins being hit.
We are not leaving Iraq! You know that. It's as "devastating" to leave now, as it would have been 4 years ago, or in 4 years time, (or 14, or 24 years). Pick any number in years.
'Devastating' to who exactly? To the Iraqis? How so? When will it not be 'devastating'? IF it will always be devastating, how much more time and death and money to make the 'devastation' bearable? Why not ask some Iraqi citizens if they would like us to stay or go? Why not ask Iraqi parliament (when they are not in recess) if they would like us to stay or go. Isn't that the test? Is anyone asking them?
Leaving is certainly not devastating to the US Soldiers who risk their lives every day. Its not devastating to their families who pray that they don't lose limbs or die in a futile struggle. Definitely not devastating to our flailing national budget and our schools that pay our teachers peanuts and our pathetic perscription drug program and our millions of homeless without health care and our undefended borders and our rising tuition costs.
We will never leave. The US will be there forever, like we are in Itaewon in Seoul and Roppongi in Tokyo. Bush wanted a permanent foothold in the middle east, and thats what they have. The argument needs to be shifted to: when will we stop engaging in the fight? When will we back down and just be witnesses to a civil war instead of active participants?
How much of the "rebuilding" is a result of what was flattened by the "coalition" bombing anyway? Since the "rebuilding" effort is a perpetual earner for the major contractors out there, and they are inextricably linked with the Bush admin anyway, its not as if they are in any danger of profit margins being hit.
I totally agree. Coalition made the mess, the coalition needs to clean it up. Its too bad that history has shown us that exposing the link between Bush/Cheney and KBR/Halliburton yields nothing. Nobody has ever cared, partly because the media has never stressed it.