PowerPC Handhelds

vinney57vinney57
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Check this out:

<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-981443.html"; target="_blank">IBM Reference Platform</a>



IBM are announcing a platform 'kit' for handhelds based on PowerPC's. The units run Linux...but we know another OS that runs on PowerPC's don't we children?



Significant

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 8
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    [quote]Originally posted by vinney57:

    <strong>Check this out:

    <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-981443.html"; target="_blank">IBM Reference Platform</a>



    IBM are announcing a platform 'kit' for handhelds based on PowerPC's. The units run Linux...but we know another OS that runs on PowerPC's don't we children?



    Significant</strong><hr></blockquote>



    From the article:



    [quote]<strong>IBM's Microelectronics division announced on Tuesday it will offer a PDA blueprint aimed at fostering the development of new versions of handhelds based on its PowerPC 405LP chip and MontaVista Software's Linux . The companies are exhibiting their wares at this week's LinuxWorld trade show in New York.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    So it is using the PPC 405LP. I know nothing about that, but I doubt it could run any mac os. Maybe someone could tinker with Darwin and get it going, and then who knows, maybe by throwing in a custom darwin kernel to a OS X install, it could get runnign on this. But I doubt it.



    What I do wonder, is if someone booted PPCLinux on this, and then ran MOL, could they then run mac apps? I know MOL is like WINE, but since it is still running on a PPC...



    [ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: kupan787 ]</p>
  • Reply 2 of 8
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    MOL isn't like WINE. It's sets up a virtual machine for Mac OS X to run in inside a window. It doesn't have to emulate the CPU, so it's turtle-slow instead of snail-slow.



    Barto
  • Reply 3 of 8
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    [quote]Originally posted by Barto:

    <strong>MOL isn't like WINE. It's sets up a virtual machine for Mac OS X to run in inside a window. It doesn't have to emulate the CPU, so it's turtle-slow instead of snail-slow.



    Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Umm.. MOL is like classic for PPCLinux (run macos apps on linux). WINE runs on X86 linux, and allows for running of windows apps. They both do just about the same thing for there respective platform. Neither are emulation. What am I missing that makes them not the same?



    And I don't think MOL runs in OS X, just in PPCLiux (I could be very wrong on this, as I have never run it). If this chip runs PPCLinux, and PPCLinux runs MOL, then woucln't we run mac apps on this? Or does it depend on what linux distro is used?
  • Reply 4 of 8
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Wine doesn't emulate at all; it re-implements the Win32 APIs (well, most of them).



    Anyway, if PPCLinux runs on it, with a bit of writing drivers, we should be able to make OS X run on it, too.



    The 4xx PPCs are actually embedded units, though (IIRC).
  • Reply 5 of 8
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    [quote]Originally posted by kupan787:

    <strong>



    ...

    And I don't think MOL runs in OS X, just in PPCLiux (I could be very wrong on this, as I have never run it). If this chip runs PPCLinux, and PPCLinux runs MOL, then woucln't we run mac apps on this? Or does it depend on what linux distro is used?</strong><hr></blockquote> You are incorrect, sir!



    <a href="http://www.maconlinux.org/faq.html"; target="_blank">Read and be wise.</a>
  • Reply 6 of 8
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mr. Me:

    <strong> You are incorrect, sir!



    <a href="http://www.maconlinux.org/faq.html"; target="_blank">Read and be wise.</a></strong><hr></blockquote>



    Thanks! I knew it wasn't emulaiton, but I wasn't eactly sure what it was or what it ran on. However this was interesting:



    [quote]Q: Does MOL run on non-Apple hardware?



    A: It does. MOL runs for instance on the Pegasos board, the Teron board and on AmigaOne hardware. In short, MOL should run on any PowerPC hardware (with the except of 601-based systems). However, the EULA of MacOS prohibits its usage on non-Apple hardware (it is of course perfectly legal to use MOL to boot a second Linux though).<hr></blockquote>



    While I am sure he means any desktop PPC, I wonder if it would really run on any PPC hardware (ie. this palmtop device)
  • Reply 7 of 8
    dworkindworkin Posts: 4member
    I have finally registered. Long time viewer. First time poster. I guess this is the first time I felt I had anything significant to add to the conversation. Anyway, when I found out that MOL (Mac-On-Linux) was supporting Jaguar I became very interested in the possibility of making a OS X capable wearable computer. In the embeded market there are tons of boards using PPC 750fx chips in a very small footprint. I was interested enough to email the MOL project and find out what they thought. Here are the two corespondences so far.
    • As soon as I ran across the MOL project it occured to me that there are many PPC "system on a board" or PC104 embeded options. Although running OS X on non apple hardware violates the EULA I was wondering theoretically if its possible to run on such a system. Like for building your own laptop or wearable computer. If it would work in theory, do you know of any boards that would be ideal for this? Mostly just curious in the technology.



      Thanx,

      Matthew Kale



      Reply:



      Well, not out of the box. I've not really studied the specifications

      of embedded PPCs but I know the MMU implementation differ at least

      for the 8xx series.



      I think there are 74xx processors which are intended for embedded usage

      though. MOL should be able to run on these (these are just standard G4:s).



      With some work (essentially adding support for the MMU peculiarities),

      I believe one could get MOL running on embedded systems. It would

      be cool, but perhaps not really worth the effort.



      Cheers,



      /Samuel





      Samuel,

      Thanks for you quick response, and sorry to bother you again, but Ive found a number of small board options that use the G3 750fx "Sahara" at up to 1Ghz. These are embeded systems that are designed to run LinuxPPC anyway. Am I correct in assuming that the MMU issues would not be a problem with this chip seeing as how the ibooks are using the same chip?

      some examples are <a href="http://www.artesyncp.com/html/pmppc_750F.html"; target="_blank">http://www.artesyncp.com/html/pmppc_750F.html</a>; and <a href="http://www.momentum-computer.com/products/puma-a.html"; target="_blank">http://www.momentum-computer.com/products/puma-a.html</a>;



      MOL should be able to run on these without problems (I can't see

      any, at least). The MOL requirements are essentially a

      supported MMU and FPU support (I believe the FPU-less variants

      are numbered 740 or something).



      Thinking of this mostly as a "proof of concept" and something to play with. Either an oversized PDA (using a dockable IPod as HD), or a wearable computer. Probably a 7-10" screen. The coolest thing would be having a one of a kind OSX Jaguar machine.



      It should be possible to run Jaguar if the board is

      equipped with a sufficient amount of memory.





      Im sure you are a busy person, and I dont want to keep bothering you but I find this line of thought extremely intresting.



      No problem :-). It would indeed be quite fun to see MOL running

      on an embedded board. I'll be happy to answer any questions that

      come up...



      Cheers,



      /Samuel

    Essentially what he said it that if the PPC chip has a MMU that Apple has accounted for it will run just fine. Otherwise it would require significant modification to MOL to work around the issue.



    The boards I have found so far include PMC (Processor Mezzanine Cards), PC-104 boards, and a few proprietary SBC's (Single Board Computers). All of them have a very small footprint. Some of them list up to 1 Ghz G3's, G4's, and some dual or quad configurations. All of them will run LinuxPPC. There may be other considerations that I have missed, but it looks like it would be quite possible to build your own Laptop, Wearable Computer, or Tablet Mac. Anyway, its just food for thought.



    Since I've been a reader of AppleInsider for a long time I am very glad to finally have something to contribute on an interesting subject. I'd also like to thank everyone here for their contribution. You have all kept it interesting for me with your enthusiasm and wit.



    [ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: Dworkin ]



    [ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: Dworkin ]



    [ 01-24-2003: Message edited by: Dworkin ]</p>
  • Reply 8 of 8
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Wow, Dworkin, what a great first post!! Welcome and I hope that this thread continues!



    Many here have hoped for a palm device from Apple. Even if the market is plateauing, I remain pretty dependent upon the small form-factor for a variety of apps and none of those could be put into a mobile phone no matter how cool.



    This is also an area in which the prosumer in the garage may be able to once again contribute to industry. I know that the memory issues and size of Jaguar may not make it the best for new embedded devices, but with lots of life in fast G3's (in my opinion), Apple might be uniquely positioned to push the technology and ignite another market, like it did with its first laptops.



    I look forward to reading any new info you find.



    [ 01-25-2003: Message edited by: MacGregor ]</p>
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