HalfLife 2 source stolen: Possible Mac port?
in the "far out there" department, just thought of something.
If the source code is findable, and with what has been lifted apparently people have compiled running versions for Windows of HL2... well, imagine having some Mac people "start a port"
The original HL is done and finished and was even seen on OSX... seeing Newell's personal gripes against Apple... I figure "borrowing the code" to make a Mac port will be the only way we will ever see it on our platform
If the source code is findable, and with what has been lifted apparently people have compiled running versions for Windows of HL2... well, imagine having some Mac people "start a port"
The original HL is done and finished and was even seen on OSX... seeing Newell's personal gripes against Apple... I figure "borrowing the code" to make a Mac port will be the only way we will ever see it on our platform
Comments
A friend of mine has the HL2 beta though, says it is a wonderful game; worth buying a PC for
First of all, only one third of the code was stolen. 1/3rd of the source code does not make for a full and complete game. In fact, 1/3rd without the remaining 2/3rds of the code is worthless. So there can't be a Mac port because all the source isn't out.
Secondly, any such port would be COMPLETELY illegal. Just because the source is available on the net does not make it legal to do anything with it- it is still the property of Valve. Anyone who tried making a port would be sued as quickly as if they had personally gunned down the children of Valve's retained lawyers. Anyone who modifies and distributes that code is a dead man.
Stop dreaming. It is not going to happen. Whoever stole the code did a large disservice to the gaming community and to Valve. They should be caught and severely punished.
Originally posted by thuh Freak
or just hack up the existing bits and make a dirty underground version.
Dead dead dead dead. When Valve subpoena's your source tree and you have to say "umm version 1 was just really really complete, and no, we can't show that we did any work." in court, then whoever hacks up the code is a DEAD man. Valve will sue them into the ground. Better still is when you say that you don't have a source tree...
PS. It is very hard to modify code so that it doesn't "look" like the original. If you think that you can just change some variable names, then you are wrong. Source has a given semantic notation (e.g. variable names, comment locations) that is easily changable, but the real code that is produced is the binary code, and that is the same regardless of what you name variables. Even if you could rearrange the source so that the binaries looke a bit different, it would be very difficult to make them look truly different without a full rewriting (20% simmilarity will get you killed in court). Further still, when your physics engine has the same bugs as Valve's leaked physics engine, then you are going to have a bad day in court.
Having said all that....the guy 2 cubes over from me has the compiled version and said it worked on his PC at home. Then he offered me a copy.....DAMN why do I have to have moral integrity!
Originally posted by Willoughby
All this talk of lawsuits is funny. Software is pirated all the time and I'm sure any Mac port that was created from the stolen code would NEVER be sold as a product. It would remain an underground pirated copy. So forget lawsuits.
So you're saying if you had all of the source and the knowledge to port it, you would do it? I don't know many people capable of actually porting a codebase like that, and I guarantee you they wouldn't touch the source with a twenty foot pole unless it was legally authorized by Valve.
So even if ALL of the source was stolen, this isn't going to happen, because the risk isn't worth it. Valve would find the persons working on it, and they would be punished. Nobody wants to risk that.
I have a feeling they didnt really distinguish WHAT is the source. As in, I guess the engine code has been fully stolen, but they also consider as source to be the maps, textures, etc etc...
Seems to me that the actual engine source has been taken...
I havent SEEN then PC compiled version so I have NO IDEA if the stolen compiled game is actually complete or not.
If only a third of the engine were stolen, I dont think you would see compiled versions around (I aint a programmer so I just speaking outta my ass, but seems kinda logical to me)
Nobody with half a brain is going to go near the source.
Nobody with half a brain is going to look at the source.
For example John Carmack shouldn't look at the source. Looking at it might give him ideas and could lead to his being sued. The source is material that has a copyright and is considered to be a trade secret. Anyone who uses this code is going to get killed in court and Valve is probably sufficiently angry to just go for broke on anyone who distributes it.
Overall, this is very bad for the software industry.
Originally posted by LoCash
So you're saying if you had all of the source and the knowledge to port it, you would do it?
All I was saying is that if it could be ported, it would, and it would be distributed just like any other pirated material. It would be very hard for Valve to find the culprits and prosecute.
Originally posted by LoCash
So you're saying if you had all of the source and the knowledge to port it, you would do it?
I definitely would. I would probably keep it to myself for a little while, but pride is just as big of a flaw as anything else. If you hacked the code and got it working the next hardest thing would be getting it into the underground networks untracacbly. This isn't that hard though, so the only thing we need is a genius to get his hands on the code
I am only 80% genius so someone else hack it and MAIL as in priority mail me it on a DVD and I'll do the rest.
Haha, how sweet would it be if I really received a DVD in the next couple of days, I'd really enter it into the underground network.
Originally posted by LoCash
I think it would be incredibly easy for Valve to find the culprits and prosecute.
With all the 1000s of software titles that are pirated and distributed you think that it would somehow be easier for Valve?
Than why isn't Adobe, Microsoft or Apple prosecuting?
Look at all the newsgroups devoted to pirated software and look at how many people in those newgroups are getting prosecuted. I think its near 0 (zero).
Look at how many people HERE had pre-release copies of Panther and will have the full version when that comes out and none of them will be prosecuted either. It can't be stopped.
The source code to Falcon 4 was leaked, the game was improved by underground coders, and the maker of Falcon 4 didn't sue and reached an agreement with the coders. The again, Valve are dickheads.
As far as "1/3rd of the code being stolen", this is simply not true. A beta has been hacked together with the leaked code combined with seperate resources. I find it hard to believe that hackers have filled in the remaining code.
I would not be surpised at all if in a year or two (or three), an underground Mac compatible Half Life 2 started floating around.
Barto
Originally posted by Willoughby
With all the 1000s of software titles that are pirated and distributed you think that it would somehow be easier for Valve?
Than why isn't Adobe, Microsoft or Apple prosecuting?
Look at all the newsgroups devoted to pirated software and look at how many people in those newgroups are getting prosecuted. I think its near 0 (zero).
Look at how many people HERE had pre-release copies of Panther and will have the full version when that comes out and none of them will be prosecuted either. It can't be stopped.
BZZZT wrong.
Adobe has compiled binary versionis of its software pirated, not the source. If all of a sudden, Gimp for Linux had full Photoshop feature parity, then I give you three 100% guarantees.
#1. Adobe would sue
#2. Adobe would win
#3. Gimp authors would be in jail for decades.
It is an odd thing, but companies get really moody when people steal their source and then repackage it. Companies don't usually say "aw shucks, they stole our source code and are now releasing our product and taking away our revenue, but it really isn't worth doing anything." No, companies sue and make sure that the person who does something like this is dead and buried and I frankly agree.
Here is an example. My company has sunk about $300-$400 million dollars into the source for our primary product. Lets say that someone obtained the source and started shipping a version of our software but sold it for $20 instead of the $20,000 that it normally goes for. Do you think that we would take this lying down? Hell no. In Diablo terms (something that you can probably well understand
Again, Adobe and MS and Apple DO prosecute IP violations. There is a profound difference between a company going after joe kazaa who downloaded a pirated copy of Photoshop so he can fulfill his depraved dream of setting up his own porn site and somebody who repackages another's source. You are confusing getting a binary copy of the compiled code with the actual code itself. If somebody repackaged OS X, Apple would sue them into oblivion.
Originally posted by Barto
The source code to Falcon 4 was leaked, the game was improved by underground coders, and the maker of Falcon 4 didn't sue and reached an agreement with the coders. The again, Valve are dickheads.
As far as "1/3rd of the code being stolen", this is simply not true. A beta has been hacked together with the leaked code combined with seperate resources. I find it hard to believe that hackers have filled in the remaining code.
I would not be surpised at all if in a year or two (or three), an underground Mac compatible Half Life 2 started floating around.
Barto
I had heard that it was only 1/3rd of the code. If all the code was stolen, then that is obviously worse.
Yeah, Valve may be dickheads for wanting to keep their code private (the gall!), but the are also a part of Vivendi-Universal conglomerate, so they have money to actually sue, unlike some other companies.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Again, Adobe and MS and Apple DO prosecute IP violations. There is a profound difference between a company going after joe kazaa who downloaded a pirated copy of Photoshop so he can fulfill his depraved dream of setting up his own porn site and somebody who repackages another's source. You are confusing getting a binary copy of the compiled code with the actual code itself. If somebody repackaged OS X, Apple would sue them into oblivion.
BZZT. You completely missed what I was saying. I said that it would be compiled and released underground, not as a product. Nobody would ever dare do that and try and sell it
If I obtained the source, compiled it for the Mac and passed it around on hotline servers (hah, remember those) than how would they catch me? Once its out there its unstoppable. I wouldn't be selling the product, I would be distributing a "pirated" (more or less) version of the product to give Mac Users a chance to play Halflife on their Mac. It would be distributed in Warez channels which will always exist.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Yeah, Valve may be dickheads for wanting to keep their code private (the gall!)
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about screwing the community over by cancelling Linux & Macintosh versions, introducing the worst product activation system so far (and that's saying something!), and not supporting the user base by making their internet code secure when CounterStrike took off. They are just dickheads in general.
THEN they have the gall to plead for "the community's" help. Most people are pro open source software, but not enough to enjoy a company's source code being leaked. In this case though, Valve's attitude over the past few years HAS pushed people over the edge. The terms Schadenfreude (the community) and karma (Valve) come to mind.
Barto