Does Panther fix any of Jaguar's sleeping disorders?

in macOS edited January 2014
I like to leave my computer on all of the time, and awake too, except for the display, which I wish to have go to sleep after 30 minutes of inactivity. (It's a 22" LCD Apple Cinema Display, in case that matters.)

For some reason, however, over time my computer gets into a state where the display won't go to sleep, or it will briefly go to sleep but wake itself up soon after. Even going from my old G4 to my new G5, with a fresh install of the OS, the problem hasn't disappeared.

Restarting my computer will temporarily fix the problem, suggesting that some background process that ends when I shut down, and either doesn't start up again right away or starts up in a better state, is responsible for keeping my display awake. I've tried shutting down all of my apps, and suggestions like turning off file sharing, but none of those help. A restart is required.

I've heard stories that some USB devices, even some hubs, can cause this kind of display sleep problem, but since I leave all of the same devices hooked up when restarting my computer, a restart shouldn't be enough to help out if after the restart the same USB devices are still there.

I'm hoping that Panther will fix these problems. From Googling around, it looks like a number of people have sleep problems with Jaguar for which they haven't found any solutions.

PS: Does anyone know a way to immediately put your display to sleep without sleeping your whole system at the same time?


  • Reply 1 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    It's *possible* that it's a hardware problem with the power button on the display itself... although one wouldn't think that a reboot would fix that. Odd. (Saw something very similar on a Cube/Apple Display setup... monitor would not go to sleep because the power switch was stuck in the "I'm being touched" mode, so as soon as the display was told to go to sleep, it'd wake back up with this annoying flicker. But, a reboot didn't solve that.)
  • Reply 2 of 19
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    My eMac's display goes to sleep fine and it stays asleep all day (or at least I'm pretty sure it does because it's off when I leave and it's off when I come back). I just set it to sleep with 15 minutes of idling. If I want to go to bed or something I just put the entire computer to sleep. It's not like going 15 minutes instead of 1 minute makes much of a difference.

    By the way, you can't put the display to sleep immediately with Panther but for me, putting it to sleep after one minute is just fine. Another cool feature is that now you can make it so it asks for your password when you wake the computer (not just the display) from sleep. You can even change users and log in as a different user if the one who left it asleep isn't around to type in his password and get you to the login screen. There are lots of useful multi-user features in Panther.
  • Reply 3 of 19
    Hey, I have some serious sleeping problems with my iBook. It's downright irritating. I still dunno whatsup with it, and I'm smack dab in the middle of the heat of my semester, and I can't be bothered to go down to some servicing centre and have them tell me there's nothing wrong with it because they can't reproduce what I've observed. I sure hope Panther fixes it.
  • Reply 4 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Stating what the problem *is* might get you some actual technical help around here... Funny how that works...

    My venerable Pismo has an annoying problem where it simply won't wake from sleep sometimes. I open the lid, the sleep light goes off, but nothing happens. The screen isn't just dark (no backlight), it's off (no image, period). The drive does not spin up. It just gets... stuck. Closing the lid again does *not* put it into sleep mode once more, it's just hosed. Cmd-crtl-power is the only way to kick it out of its funk, but of course I then lose anything I was working on that wasn't saved. (Save before sleep has become a mantra with me now...)
  • Reply 5 of 19
    My problem is identical to yours. I just don't put it to sleep anymore. I shut down and turn on every time I need it... like I was back in the 90's on my first PC with Windows 3.1.
  • Reply 6 of 19
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    My scanner stops my iBook from sleeping properly.

    It is intermittent.

    I dont know what the hell it is doing, but you close the lid and it goes to sleep, after a while the backligk comes on ( you can see the logo light up ) the drive spins up, the light on the front stops pulsing. Then it will go to sleep again, then it will wake up again.

    How do I know its the scanner?

    I unplugged, all the issues go away. It doesnt happen with other usb devices ( mice, keyboards ).

    So, if you are having sleep issues unplug all the extraenous peripherals, and see if that helps. If it does you can try to work what exactly does, and do something about it.

    FYI, the scanner is a Canon LIDE 30
  • Reply 7 of 19
    after installing the latest 10.2.8 we have two 12"pbooks that wont wake from sleep no matter what you do, restart is required so no sleep for them untill panther arrives
  • Reply 8 of 19
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member

    Originally posted by mmmpie

    FYI, the scanner is a Canon LIDE 30

    Hmmm. Interesting. I have the same scanner. But since rebooting my computer fixes the sleep problem for me (at least for some indeterminate period of time, typically days), while leaving the scanner plugged in, I'm not certain unplugging the scanner would help in my case. It's probably worth a try next time this crops up.

    I can't recall whether or not I had the sleep problem before I first attached the scanner. I've had the scanner since last Christmas, but I think my computer was having sleep problems before then.
  • Reply 9 of 19

    My Pismo does the same thing as yours, not coming back after a restful sleep. It's not *always*, though, just about ever third time or so. I found that the odds of waking up OK rise when I make sure that the Mac is in Finder mode before I put him to bed rather than closing Mr. Lid while in an application. That's with 10.2.6, and it never happens when booted with 9.2.2, so I'm not thinking hardware.

    Just another data point.

  • Reply 10 of 19
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member

    Originally posted by Luca Rescigno

    I just set it to sleep with 15 minutes of idling. If I want to go to bed or something I just put the entire computer to sleep. It's not like going 15 minutes instead of 1 minute makes much of a difference.

    I don't put my computer into total sleep because I want it to run a nightly back up, which won't run if the computer is sleeping. Besides that, I want OS X to be free to run all of its maintenance routines on schedule without having to resort to something like MacJanitor.

    Even if I could set up some scheduler to wake my computer for the back up, I've never heard of an option (although I'd love to have such an option) of having the computer wake up while leaving the display asleep. The light suddenly shining from my computer at night can be annoyingly bright -- and the computer's not even in my bedroom.

    When I'm ready to go to bed, I'd really like to darken the screen immediately without fussing with System Preferences to change my daytime sleep delay of 15 minutes to a nighttime delay of one minute. I settle for activating my screen saver using a hot corner, the screen saver display being very dark compared to the usual desktop.

    One problem when this sleep problem is acting up, however, is that it seems like the screen saver itself keeps my computer awake. Lately I've just been putting up with a fifteen minute delay for the full darkness to come.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member

    Originally posted by Powelligator


    My Pismo does the same thing as yours, not coming back after a restful sleep. It's not *always*, though, just about ever third time or so. I found that the odds of waking up OK rise when I make sure that the Mac is in Finder mode before I put him to bed rather than closing Mr. Lid while in an application. That's with 10.2.6, and it never happens when booted with 9.2.2, so I'm not thinking hardware.

    Just another data point.


    Thanks Joe. I have it happen about once every 20 times, so it's not exactly endemic, but I'll try your Finder trick and see if that helps.
  • Reply 12 of 19
    neilybneilyb Posts: 128member
    my 12 inch PB has the same problem... not waking from sleep. But it's SO intermitent, I've decided to ignore it and hope it's fixed with Panther.

  • Reply 13 of 19

    Originally posted by NeilyB

    my 12 inch PB has the same problem... not waking from sleep. But it's SO intermitent, I've decided to ignore it and hope it's fixed with Panther.


    yea its weird they just started doing it, they were fine before, and yea its intermittent. but it deff started after 10.2.8.
  • Reply 14 of 19
    I've had this problem since 10.2.6. It was after I got a RAM upgrade, actually. Thing is, even with my USB mouse attached during sleep... sometimes I'd remove the mouse whie it was on sleep. My laptop would wake while in close-lid mode and then go back to sleep. I found it incredibly robust and convenient, which was why before my RAM upgrade, I'd get uptimes of weeks.

    Now it's getting really bad. I find it very inconvenient. I went through a rather huge thread on Apple's forums... the users there are very mathematical and scientific on the information they gather and their inferences. Apparently, they've narrowed it down to a software glitch. A hardware problem has been ruled out. I'm hoping, hoping Panther has a fix for this.
  • Reply 15 of 19
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    On my iMac, I experienced a very random, no-rhyme-or-reason case of the thing not waking from sleep. Not every time, by any means, but maybe once out of every, say, 12-15 times I'd go to wake it? Something like that.

    Moving the mouse, pressing the keys, etc. did nothing and so I was forced to do a restart. Then it would be totally cool for a week or more. I can't remember EXACTLY when this began, but it had to have been recently because it used to never do this.

    Perhaps with 10.2.6 or something? I mean, within the past 3-4 months.

    Not enough to get too torqued up or worried, but it ALWAYS seemed to happen when I needed/wanted on my Mac the most!

    I can't WAIT to install and start using Panther. I'm a window whore (distant relative to the much-maligned spec whore, but not nearly as annoying) and I think Exposé alone is going to be worth the price of admission!

    That and the FAX thing. Can't wait to test that one out too.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    pyr3pyr3 Posts: 946member
    Ok ... I just posted a thread that was similar... But I have some input on this subject.

    First, on the not waking from sleep. I never have my system go to sleep, but since installing 10.2.8, I have had one occurrence of the screen-saver locking up. It was very peculiar because it was the 'forest' screen-saver, and it was still running. But it was just cycling the same two photos over and over again, instead of the various others there are. Neither keyboard or mouse would bring it back.

    Second, on the display sleep problem. I think that this has to do with the USB devices as someone suggested, but it's a very odd problem. If I set the display sleep to 1 minute, set the screen-saver to 5 minutes and leave my TiBook alone, the screen will dim and then undim itself until the screen-saver finally kicks in, instead of dimming and then going to sleep. I've done some testing with the display sleep threshold set to 1 minute and it works perfectly fine if I unplug my Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse Blue (in case it's a device specific problem), but will then fail to work when I plug it back in. I haven't tried to see if it works after a restart because I don't like to reboot my system too often (I'm always working on something or chatting with someone). It might be worth note that the only other device I have plugged in is my mounted iPod. To me this seems like it is a combination of two problems:

    1) The display sleep and screen-saver use two different idle timers, when they should probably be using the same timer.

    2) Somehow USB devices (perhaps only certain devices, i.e. hardware specific problem) are refreshing themselves and it is causing the display-sleep's idle timer to reset.

    This problem seems fixable for one reason: The screen-saver works even when the display-sleeping won't. Well, fixable from Apple's end anyways... Maybe I'm being short sighted and not seeing some larger picture in OS design, but I think that display-sleep, screen-saver, and system-sleep should all use the same timer. Another semi-related note is that I can't get a password with the display-sleep... I only want my display to go to sleep. I don't want/need a screen-saver and making the screen-saver timer start after the display is asleep doesn't seem to work.

    For those with the display-sleep problems, do this:

    - set the display-sleep time to 1 minute and disable the screen-saver.

    - unplug all your USB devices

    - if the display sleeps like it should, then try plugging in devices until you figure out which device seems to screw it up, or maybe if they each do. (needless to say if your only pointing device is USB, then plug that in to reset the idle time, unplug it, and then plug another USB device.... test them that way)

    - post us back your findings
  • Reply 17 of 19
    pyr3pyr3 Posts: 946member
    I just grabbed an old MS Optical Mouse and plugged it in. The problem doesn't rear its head with this mouse. I'm thinking that maybe it's a software glitch with certain USB devices (maybe USB 2.0 compliant devices?). Personally I think that is has something to do with the software handling of certain USB devices. Perhaps they are sending some packets along the USB bus that the OS doesn't know how to interpret so it interprets them as breaking idle time? If so, then don't they break the idle-time for the screen-saver? (The answer for that last question might lie in my previous statements about them using two different idle timers.)


    Well, my USB 2.0 theory was just shot down my myself. The display-sleeping works when I have my USB 2.0 PNY 128MB flash drive plugged in and mounted.
  • Reply 18 of 19
    lol pscates. I dunno about the whore bit, but I'm sure glad to see I'm not the only one justifying the dent in my pocket solely because of Expose. :P

    Well, apparently, your system doesn't crash enough to freak you out, so you can continue using the sleep function. It happened so often with me after my RAM upgrade, I just don't use it. I'm back in the early 90s, switch on... switch off. I don't wanna risk harming my iBook in any way, which is kinda ironic, 'cos having to wait for it to load is kinda harming me. But then... waiting for it to load normally beats waiting for it to load when recovering from an unexpected crash, which takes bloodddddy aaaaaaages!!!!

    About the detailed posts by pyr3. They have some known issues regarding this about some RGB connection whatchamacallit. I don't have any, so if you're affected by that... take note. Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with USB devices or anything. I've had this thing go into a coma on me when completely standalone, not a device within sniffing range for it to mess with, going completely wireless, no power connector, no USB mouse, no iPod, no ethernet cable. Just me and my iBook... and still the little bugger went comatose on me! So I don't think it has anything to do with devices. I think it's purely software-based and since many people apparently seem to have this problem, I think it's something common to OS X.2.x.

    Apple's also very nice in this regard... they'll never admit it. What's genuinely good, though, is that although their Steve Jobsian arrogance prevents them from admitting it... their Steve Jobsian business-driven psyche gets them to fix it! Which, personally, I don't mind. As long as they fix it!

    Is this site run/funded by Steve Jobs? I don't take very kindly to the fellow. He's alright, but he's downright arrogant. He wreaks of it. And I've seen some sick stuff in some other forums (and even in this one) where users say Bill Gates is Darth Vader and Steve Jobs is Luke Skywalker and Windows is the "dark side." Urrrrgh, that was revolting.

    Although I don't take kindly to Microsoft-bashing and all that communal, hormone-driven chauvinism we see among some Mac users... it may be, just mayyy beeee... that Microsoft hires some people to talk absolute TRASH under the name of a "loyal Mac user."

    Although I'm digressing majorly here, let me indulge some more! Another post in this very very forum had some freak kiss Steve Jobs' picture and *pray* to him or some absolute garbage. :P This stuff is beyond words, guys... beyondddd worrrrds.

    Ok, now that that's off my chest. Sleep problems. Yeah. Big problem. Bugs me. Panther should fix it. I'd tell you to keep your fingers crossed, but I'm not superstitious, so ditch. :P
  • Reply 19 of 19
    pyr3pyr3 Posts: 946member
    Well, my whole USB section what mostly pertaining to the display-sleep problem, not the freeze-while-sleeping problem. I was just mentioning that screen-saver freeze since I thought it might have some relevance. As for it being a software problem (the display-sleep problem), it may very well be a software problem, but it is affected by my wireless mouse. It's reproducible (at least right now it is... maybe a restart will undo that). It works fine over and over and over. I plug in my wireless mouse. Won't work for hours. Unplug the mouse, works instantly. And that person a few posts up mentioned something about a USB scanner doing the same thing. Somehow the software isn't handling these devices properly or something. We'll see what Panther does for them when I get it.
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