Yet another get off oil article
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=2155717
?THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.?
Beyond the political benefits of getting off oil, the environmental benefits are a more worthwhile reason to pursue getting off oil as a main fuel. it's just sad that the only way we might see real progress is to tax petroleum for the end user (us) to spur development of alternate fuels. The almighty dollar.
?THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.?
Beyond the political benefits of getting off oil, the environmental benefits are a more worthwhile reason to pursue getting off oil as a main fuel. it's just sad that the only way we might see real progress is to tax petroleum for the end user (us) to spur development of alternate fuels. The almighty dollar.
Comments
How I wish Detroit would consider selling alternative-fuel vehicles, but just try walking into a dealership and asking about them. The salesman will give you a blank stare. At least this happened to me at a Ford dealership when I knew full well they make natural gas vehicles at the factory.
The populace is satisfied with the price of gasoline, otherwise they would be demanding such vehicles and demanding fuelling stations provide such fuel.
1) Political and economic forces (ok, not a small issue).
2) Energy density of petrolium fuel is absurdly high. Nothing (as far as I know), maybe uranium, has as high an energy density. This means that any other fuel you use will require substantially more weight.
3) Auto Manufacturing is an extremely risky business. An auto company must be very exacting in its forcasts because its fixed costs might be 98% of its revenue. So the profit margin is very slim.
4) The buying habbits of consumers prove, overwhelmingly, that they only care about the environment if it doesn't penalize them in any way. Even if costs will eventually be equivalent, Car companies must pay massive R&D and retooling costs.
That said, Toyota already has a number of hybrid vehicles and have actively promoted the idea that they will sell only hybrid vehicles by 2007-2008. They are way ahead of everybody except Honda.
Originally posted by Outsider
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=2155717
?THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.?
Beyond the political benefits of getting off oil, ....
I always ask this question and no one ever really gives me a good answer IMO. What exactly are the "political benefits" of reducing our oil consumption? How exactly are we going to use reduced oil consumption to get a benefit?
Let's say we tell the Saudis "Sorry don't need your oil". And they say, "No please you have to, we'll do anything" and we say "Okay you have to do XYZ and then we'll do PDQ".
What's XYZ and what then what will PDQ be? How pissed off will SA be for having us force them into XYZ. PDQ is what? Buy oil we don't need using money we don't want to spend? I just don't get it. How do we use reduced oil needs to make our situation and the worlds better, politically?
Maybe taking oil out of the equation would clear up our perception of some of the problems going on in the middle east.
Originally posted by kraig911
I just am afraid of my dad, and really half of my fvcking family. They make gasoline at a refinery thats what he does... in the catcracker... Jobs are slim as they are in west texas... Might as well turn it into a nuclear testing sight if we get off oil so fast. I think fuel cells tho are where's its at.
Yeah. And my grand grand father made pins with his hands and then them darned pin factories came.
Another stupid one from different democratic candidates: "Preserve manufactoring America".
A couple of years ago I worked at one of our three large newspapers here in dk. In the advert dep. the were designing the advertisements on their macs while talking to the customers. Then they printed a copy of it and sent it to the typographers that made an excact copy on their computers from the ground up.
If the need isn´t there then noone should do the work.
Originally posted by Scott
I always ask this question and no one ever really gives me a good answer IMO. What exactly are the "political benefits" of reducing our oil consumption? How exactly are we going to use reduced oil consumption to get a benefit?
Let's say we tell the Saudis "Sorry don't need your oil". And they say, "No please you have to, we'll do anything" and we say "Okay you have to do XYZ and then we'll do PDQ".
What's XYZ and what then what will PDQ be? How pissed off will SA be for having us force them into XYZ. PDQ is what? Buy oil we don't need using money we don't want to spend? I just don't get it. How do we use reduced oil needs to make our situation and the worlds better, politically?
The only people that benefit from our oil consumption are the elite. Everybody else in the middle east resents us for it and feels we are "raping" their land. If we reduce the amount of oil we consume, then we can be more self sufficient (better for our own economy). The overall oil consumption of the world is growing fast enough that they will still be able to sell their product. They will just have to begin shifting their market. But this isn't going to happen overnite, so that should be fine.
Originally posted by kraig911
I just am afraid of my dad, and really half of my fvcking family. They make gasoline at a refinery thats what he does... in the catcracker... Jobs are slim as they are in west texas... Might as well turn it into a nuclear testing sight if we get off oil so fast. I think fuel cells tho are where's its at.
As long has we have a controlled migration from gasoline, the idea is that job opportunities open up in new fields to replace the jobs going away. Its unfortunate and frightning. But its something that happens over and over. Its another one of lifes big bummers.
Originally posted by Anders
Yeah. And my grand grand father made pins with his hands and then them darned pin factories came.
Another stupid one from different democratic candidates: "Preserve manufactoring America".
A couple of years ago I worked at one of our three large newspapers here in dk. In the advert dep. the were designing the advertisements on their macs while talking to the customers. Then they printed a copy of it and sent it to the typographers that made an excact copy on their computers from the ground up.
If the need isn´t there then noone should do the work.
The problem is Anders is the resentment may be there, but the need is most certainly there. Other countries don't have the same regional ailments as in united states. Europe is so dense (in population) that there isn't a traveling problem. Think of it this way. If I want to go see my family for the holidays, it a 7 hour drive going 75-80 mph and that speeding. Europe doesn't have this problem. Cars still are more efficent for traveling than any other method in this country.
Fuel Cells are going to fvcking kill the middle east and then we can all say fvck you and go off and kill yourselves. Though I can't stand the UN only providing help to those they can finacially and politically help those where there's an opportunity is bullshit. Israel & Saudi Arabia can eat my poop, I can't wait for the future to bid them goodbye. THey have production methods they are working right now to adapt refinery equipment into some sort of hyrdogen enrichment doohickey something for fuel cells.
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
As long has we have a controlled migration from gasoline, the idea is that job opportunities open up in new fields to replace the jobs going away. Its unfortunate and frightning. But its something that happens over and over. Its another one of lifes big bummers.
thats a really good pointe jukebox, ideally who knows what'll happen. I think the future is bright though. The whole cost of adapting everything from the infrastructure to the cars, to tags and titling is just going to be a big problem...
I think skip the whole process all together and make highways in the skys