How does the ability to have both technologies on the motherboard give an advantage to Intel? If anything, it gives an advantage to AMD. You can go with the underdog's technology virtually risk-free. And 99% of computers have two busses now, AGP and PCI, why not two busses in the future?
Barto
I don't think I said that putting both technologies on a mother board gives Intel an advantage, and I do agree with the rest of what you say. Maybe I should have use two paragraphs for the two thoughts. My first comment is about Intel likely winning out for the future expansion card interface with PCI Express. My second is that I'm glad it will be easy to provide a HyperTransport bridge to PCI Express for expansion cards, when that time comes.
AMD boards: Hypertransport for chip-to-chip buses and PCI Express for expansion cards
Intel boards: whatever their processor bus and chip-to-chip bus are (GTL+, CSA) , it won't be Hypertransport, and PCI Express for expansion cards
Apple boards: 970 elastic bus, Hypertransport for chip-to-chip, and PCI Express for expansion.
Everyone will eventually use PCI Express for graphics cards.
Nothing really is in competition here. Intel has its own ecosystem of board achitectures, AMD has its own, and Apple has its own. There is talk about expansion capability for Hypertransport, but that is just talk. AMD will use PCI Express on their boards because the expansion cards are moving to that format due to the ubiquity of Intel boards.
The only way PCI Express won't be the dominant expansion card format is if the expansion cards makers revolt. I don't think that will be happening.
THT, you overlook the fact that HyperTransport for expansion cards will likely be out MUCH sooner than PCI Express, AND it is a proven technology, one that chipset makers (nVidia, Apple) have prior experience with.
Not to mention the fact that nVidia and Apple are HT charter members.
And the fact that it wouldn't be difficult to produce cards for two standards... nVidia and ATI did so for a number of years with PCI and AGP.
THT, you overlook the fact that HyperTransport for expansion cards will likely be out MUCH sooner than PCI Express, AND it is a proven technology, one that chipset makers (nVidia, Apple) have prior experience with.
Not to mention the fact that nVidia and Apple are HT charter members.
And the fact that it wouldn't be difficult to produce cards for two standards... nVidia and ATI did so for a number of years with PCI and AGP.
THT, you overlook the fact that HyperTransport for expansion cards will likely be out MUCH sooner than PCI Express, AND it is a proven technology, one that chipset makers (nVidia, Apple) have prior experience with.
I don't even think there is a specification for a HT connector let alone any development cards. Both ATI and Nvidia will have PCI Express x16 graphics cards in 1H 2004, and backwards compatible [to PCI] slots have been designed for boards to accept both PCI and PCI Express cards in the same slot space. The two technologies aren't in competition.
There is no reason to persue HT as a Graphics replacement for PCI/AGP.
Other than moving to a serial interface PCI Express remains very similar to current AGP. Very little work will be needed for card manufactuerers to move over quickly.
I like the idea of a hybrid system. USB and Firewire coexist nicely. I see no reason why HT and PCI Ex won't do the same.
if you read all the literature surrounding both graphics mainstays ( nvidia and ati) and even 3d labs.. they have already said pci express is the next big evolution.. they have even created reference boards... with little or no mention of hyper transport.. whose graphical potental doesnt seem to fit into the scheme of the so called "cinematic" (catchy marketing scheme) graphic revolution... there seems to be a lot of talk of hyper transport among many, however i just dont see it happening and i dont read much if anything about it when reading up on the next latest greatest thing... thank you all for replying to my very first post.. i appreciate all of your inputs.. thanks for your time.. pci express had sparked my curiosity since i heard about it and now im edumacated even more.. thanks again.. likely everyone will use hybird motherboards with a mix or everything sweet.. thats always the case i think..again we'll see..
If HT can be demonstrated to be faster and more reliable that would be reason enoguh to move graphics cards to it. PCI Express has had a very long develoment period, which implies that there are issues with it. HT is working today so that is an advantage right off the bat.
In any event I can see PCI express being used for lowcost expansion but I do not have much hope for it as a High Perofrmance solution.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
There is no reason to persue HT as a Graphics replacement for PCI/AGP.
Other than moving to a serial interface PCI Express remains very similar to current AGP. Very little work will be needed for card manufactuerers to move over quickly.
I like the idea of a hybrid system. USB and Firewire coexist nicely. I see no reason why HT and PCI Ex won't do the same.
Comments
Originally posted by Barto
How does the ability to have both technologies on the motherboard give an advantage to Intel? If anything, it gives an advantage to AMD. You can go with the underdog's technology virtually risk-free. And 99% of computers have two busses now, AGP and PCI, why not two busses in the future?
Barto
I don't think I said that putting both technologies on a mother board gives Intel an advantage, and I do agree with the rest of what you say. Maybe I should have use two paragraphs for the two thoughts. My first comment is about Intel likely winning out for the future expansion card interface with PCI Express. My second is that I'm glad it will be easy to provide a HyperTransport bridge to PCI Express for expansion cards, when that time comes.
AMD boards: Hypertransport for chip-to-chip buses and PCI Express for expansion cards
Intel boards: whatever their processor bus and chip-to-chip bus are (GTL+, CSA) , it won't be Hypertransport, and PCI Express for expansion cards
Apple boards: 970 elastic bus, Hypertransport for chip-to-chip, and PCI Express for expansion.
Everyone will eventually use PCI Express for graphics cards.
Nothing really is in competition here. Intel has its own ecosystem of board achitectures, AMD has its own, and Apple has its own. There is talk about expansion capability for Hypertransport, but that is just talk. AMD will use PCI Express on their boards because the expansion cards are moving to that format due to the ubiquity of Intel boards.
The only way PCI Express won't be the dominant expansion card format is if the expansion cards makers revolt. I don't think that will be happening.
Not to mention the fact that nVidia and Apple are HT charter members.
And the fact that it wouldn't be difficult to produce cards for two standards... nVidia and ATI did so for a number of years with PCI and AGP.
Barto
Originally posted by Barto
THT, you overlook the fact that HyperTransport for expansion cards will likely be out MUCH sooner than PCI Express, AND it is a proven technology, one that chipset makers (nVidia, Apple) have prior experience with.
Not to mention the fact that nVidia and Apple are HT charter members.
And the fact that it wouldn't be difficult to produce cards for two standards... nVidia and ATI did so for a number of years with PCI and AGP.
Barto
no
Originally posted by Nr9
no
Wanna bet? I'm making plastics now!!!
Originally posted by Barto
THT, you overlook the fact that HyperTransport for expansion cards will likely be out MUCH sooner than PCI Express, AND it is a proven technology, one that chipset makers (nVidia, Apple) have prior experience with.
I don't even think there is a specification for a HT connector let alone any development cards. Both ATI and Nvidia will have PCI Express x16 graphics cards in 1H 2004, and backwards compatible [to PCI] slots have been designed for boards to accept both PCI and PCI Express cards in the same slot space. The two technologies aren't in competition.
Other than moving to a serial interface PCI Express remains very similar to current AGP. Very little work will be needed for card manufactuerers to move over quickly.
I like the idea of a hybrid system. USB and Firewire coexist nicely. I see no reason why HT and PCI Ex won't do the same.
In any event I can see PCI express being used for lowcost expansion but I do not have much hope for it as a High Perofrmance solution.
Dave
Originally posted by hmurchison
There is no reason to persue HT as a Graphics replacement for PCI/AGP.
Other than moving to a serial interface PCI Express remains very similar to current AGP. Very little work will be needed for card manufactuerers to move over quickly.
I like the idea of a hybrid system. USB and Firewire coexist nicely. I see no reason why HT and PCI Ex won't do the same.