jaguar darwin vs. panther darwin

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
i have an old g3 that i'm going to use as a server. i can't install panther on it unless i use xpostfacto and buy a pci video card, so i am sticking with jaguar. i expect apple to be pretty decent about continuing to release security updates for jaguar for a year or two, and any new programs i need like apache and php i can compile myself.



is there anything in panther, feature or security wise, that i will be missing out on?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 14
    You seem to have your panthers and jaguars mixed up in your post.



    Panther (10.3) has significant changes in the underlying Unix. Also, the developer tools including API are much improved. You will miss out on a lot by staying with 10.2. Many new apps are 10.3 only.
  • Reply 2 of 14
    johnqjohnq Posts: 2,763member
    Does installing Darwin (Panther) prevent you from later decding to boot directly into Mac OS 9?



    I ask because apparently (I've heard) that Panther does something to prevent you ever directly booting into Mac OS 9.



    If it's true, something to look out for.



    If it's not I'd love to hear it.
  • Reply 3 of 14
    Quote:

    Originally posted by talksense101

    You seem to have your panthers and jaguars mixed up in your post.



    whoops! i've now corrected it.



    Quote:



    Panther (10.3) has significant changes in the underlying Unix. Also, the developer tools including API are much improved. You will miss out on a lot by staying with 10.2. Many new apps are 10.3 only.




    what will i be missing out on?
  • Reply 4 of 14
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by johnjosephbachir

    ....



    what will i be missing out on?




    The most obvious answer is that you will be missing out on an additional year of development.
  • Reply 5 of 14
    cowerdcowerd Posts: 579member
    Quote:

    I ask because apparently (I've heard) that Panther does something to prevent you ever directly booting into Mac OS 9.



    Pure shite, unless you have a machine that won't boot into OS9 in the first place. How would installing one OS prevent a piece of hardware from booting into another OS--even MS can't do that.
  • Reply 6 of 14
    johnqjohnq Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cowerd

    Pure shite, unless you have a machine that won't boot into OS9 in the first place. How would installing one OS prevent a piece of hardware from booting into another OS--even MS can't do that.



    That's why I was asking. I'm not sure. But I HAVE heard it at least twice. But your answer isn't definitive enough for me to feel good about.



    And if the OS updates the firmware to something that the older OS will not recognize, then yes, "installing one OS (can) prevent a piece of hardware from booting into another OS".



    Rather than being a Panther protectionist, let's err on the side of finding the answer so this person doesn't trap themselves in an OS they didn't want to have fulltime.



    One of the sources of my concern is an otherwise annoying anti-Panther/Apple pessimist, but nonetheless I would like to know if what he is saying is indeed true:



    ---

    "As of this writing, I am trying to figure out how to return to Jaguar, OS 10.2.x You see, Apple had me install an apparently irreversible firmware update before Panther.



    It is called 4.1.9 and I'm not sure if it and Panther have conspired to "soil" my hard drive and RAM so thoroughly that I cannot go back to Jaguar.



    Everytime I try to install an OS X earlier than Panther, even over an erased hard drive, the computer becomes unbootable."

    ---



    Elsewhere I hear you couldn't boot into 9. True? Not sure.



    I guess if Darwin doesn't do anything with firmware then it might not matter.
  • Reply 7 of 14
    cowerdcowerd Posts: 579member
    Quote:

    Firmware Update 4.1.9 includes improvements to starting up Mac OS X from the local hard disk, Firewire target disk mode, starting up from the local hard disk, network startup, and system stability. This update also adds support for additional security options which allow the Open Firmware to be password protected.



    Thats what 4.1.9 does. It has an issue date of 4/21/2001, which to my knowledge is pre-Panther and pre-Jaguar. So using some logic, perhaps you could tell me how a firmware update released before 10.2 and 10.3 could stop your machine from booting into OS9?



    I'm not being a Panther-protectionist, I'm just going to Apple's Support site and reading, which is something you should try.



    BTW I have 10.3.2, 10.2.8 and OS9 installed on a PBook 1GHZ and I don't seem to have any problems booting into either of the three operating systems.
  • Reply 8 of 14
    I have a Ti 1 Ghz with 10.3 on it.

    I need to run 10.2 for a program that doesn't run well on 10.3



    I have a firewire harddisc just for data-backup, partitioned.



    I emptied one partition, now,



    is it possible to install 10.2 on the empty partition without erasing the wole disc?

    In a way that no files on my internal harddisc get changed, so i could switch between 10.2 and 10.3 in the "startupdisc"-pane in system preferences?



    Possible?



    Thanks for any help.
  • Reply 9 of 14
    Yes, you can install one copy of Mac OS X on any partition. All of your personal files, namely your home directory, are kept on the system partition/drive. So, your existing files on your drive with 10.3 will be fine.



    Let me clarify that a bit:



    Drive A has 10.3 and your existing users on it.

    Drive B is blank.



    You install 10.2 on Drive B.

    As such, Drive B now has its own new set of users.



    So,

    Drive A has 10.3 and your existing users on it.

    Drive B has 10.2 and a new set of users on it.

    Everything is kept separate.



    Unless you deliberately go messing with files, when you boot up 10.2 on Drive B, it will never touch your user files on Drive A. The same goes for 10.3 on Drive A never touching your user files on Drive B.



    I hope this helps.
  • Reply 10 of 14
    Perfect, just as I thought.



    U mean by "touching" files bewteen OS's, the permission/ownership-thing?



    I can install it while running 10.3 right? I don't need to start up, hold the c-key to start from cd?





    Thanks a lot.
  • Reply 11 of 14
    You will still need to reboot from the CD to install it. I've pulled some elaborate stunts through Pacifist to install a system without rebooting, but it's not for the inexperienced or faint of heart.







    That said, here's a little more clarification on the separate drive files:



    As I said, each OS will keep its own set of users and settings on its own drive. If you boot Drive B with 10.2 and fire up Safari, it will only look at your bookmarks for the user on Drive B -- it will never look for settings/files on Drive A (unless you do some trickery and explicitly tell it to).



    As far as permissions go, what is actually *accessible* from the end-user perspective is under your control. From the Finder's Get Info window, you have an option for additional drives and partitions that reads:



    "Ignore ownership on this volume"



    If you check that box, anyone can do anything with any of the files on the drive that isn't currently your system's boot drive. If it remains unchecked, the existing permission structure will remain in place. You'll be able to access and write only to certain directories and files.



    Any other questions? This is a fairly complicated situation; so, I can certainly understand any confusion.
  • Reply 12 of 14
    First of all, thanks a lot for the quick informative replies, respect...



    So, the 10.2.1 installer will see my firewire harddrive,

    and NOT erase the whole disc,

    before I choose in which partition it has to be installed in?

    Will it erase the partition only or won't it erase at all?



    Also, I can update to 10.2.8 by software update right?





    Final question: To switch betwees OS's:



    in sys prefs/startupdisc/select OS/restart



    Like this?





    Thanks again
  • Reply 13 of 14
    One more brief example. I can't help myself. Then I'll get your new questions I see you just posted...



    I have three internal drives. One of them I keep primarily for my own use; so, I have it set to preserve ownership. This way, other non-admin users on my Mac can't get to the files there. Only I, as an admin user, can make changes to anything that has non-writeable permissions set on them.



    The info window for the drive:







    What I see on that drive:







    What another user sees on that drive:







    -------------



    Okay, your new questions:



    Quote:

    So, the 10.2.1 installer will see my firewire harddrive,

    and NOT erase the whole disc,



    Unless there is already a Mac OS X system already installed on the partition you select, it shouldn't have to erase or move anything.



    Quote:

    Also, I can update to 10.2.8 by software update right?



    Yes.



    Quote:

    in sys prefs/startupdisc/select OS/restart



    Yes.







    Glad to be of help!
  • Reply 14 of 14
    Ok thanks, very helpfull.



    ...about to install 10.2.8...





    cya'round





    ****edit****

    2 hours later, up and running, great....

    I should've done this 4 months ago though....
Sign In or Register to comment.