coup d'etat

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
It's strange that there's no other topic on this yet. What else can the Administration do? How many more countries can they overthrow? So the US military abducts a countrie's President, sends him to Africa.. and doesn't think that he'll eventually pick up a phone and let the truth out? It's just crazy.



http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americ...aim/index.html

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,421member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Akumulator

    It's strange that there's no other topic on this yet. What else can the Administration do? How many more countries can they overthrow? So the US military abducts a countries President, sends him to Africa.. and doesn't think that he'll eventually pick up a phone and let the truth out? It's just crazy.



    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americ...aim/index.html




    Well I knew it was just a matter of time until someone posted the above. This has been flatly denied by the administration at every level, and I mean EVERY level. The only word to the contrary is the former Haitian President himself. I suppose the Bush Administration orchestrated and funded the rebellion as well? You cannot possibly believe this. The only thing more ridiculous is that we have the Congressional Black Caucus running around buying the story and going public with it. Nice job, boys and girls.



    If you'd like to blame an administration, how about you blame Clinton's. He's the one who reinstalled the man after he was thrown out last time.
  • Reply 2 of 18
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Aristide was definitely a step above the military leaders that staged the first coup.
  • Reply 3 of 18
    artman @_@artman @_@ Posts: 2,546member
    Coup D'Etat, Coup D'Etat

    Coup D'Etat

    Coup D'Etat

    Coup D'Etat



    The government can't stop a throng

    Struck strong,

    Let us through.

    Pulverize.

    New comes in.



    Coup D'Etat

    Give me a bomb.

    A Malatov.



    It's a Coup D'Etat!



    General Dictator gives the Law.

    Get outta line,

    Next neck on the block.

    Armys marching through the streets.

    Next run out the suffering.



    Coup D'Etat



    A Push from the left

    And a shout from the right.

    All come out,

    Let's do it tonight.



    Take the President and His wife,

    Deliver the ransom

    Or we take their lives.



    Trash their embassy.

    They are our enemies!!!



    The president just smokes cigars,

    Anyone he does not like,

    He shoots or puts behind bars.



    Coup D'Etat!



    Kill all...



    - Circle Jerks.



    All I got...
  • Reply 4 of 18
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    quite enough Artman... quite enough...



    (its been beautiful in philly over the last couple days, no?)
  • Reply 5 of 18
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    It's been reported that the NED has been funding opposition groups, including Espace de Concertation, since the last election.



    I find Powell's 'denial' really interesting. He's basically saying, "We made all of the arrangements and did all of the work, but he went willingly."
  • Reply 6 of 18
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I have to say people are making a lot of assumptions when they take this as fact.



    Remember that to assume makes an ass out of you and me.
  • Reply 7 of 18
    jwri004jwri004 Posts: 626member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BuonRotto

    Remember that to assume makes an ass out of you and me.



    Nice word play
  • Reply 8 of 18
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    I always take the word of a de-facto dictator over my own government.
  • Reply 9 of 18
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    The President Aristide, elected democratically quikcly turned into a dictator. Haiti has a long report of such lame leaders.



    He became unpopular, and the rebels (mostly people that he fired of the army some years ago) seeked revenge. The rebels quickly gain territories. US, France and Canada refused to interfere in Haiti. They try to suggest a deal to Aristide : change his governement. This deal was refused.

    The rebels quickly surrounded him, and he have no other choice than to flee away. He was happy that the US army was there to save his head. Now he moan that it was a diplomatic Coup d'etat. This is a new concept only shared by himself and very few peoples.

    Aristide is only welcome in South Africa.



    The good new is that a bad leader (read dictator) was removed. The bad new is that the next one has all the chances to be as lame.
  • Reply 10 of 18
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    What the doctor ordered.



    There was three ways of dealing with this.



    1: Sit tight and do nothing. Mini Rwanda in the works. Not a solution today.



    2: Support Aristide. A defacto dictator that would never be able to contain the unsatisfaction of the citizents. US would rightfully have drawn huge blocks of critisism against them, both from strategic, humanitarian and ethical POWs.



    3: Break with Aristide. Two versions. 3.1: Flip sides totally and support the rebels and somehow hand them Aristides ass on a platter. Not an option. Too many deaths, too messy hands and it doesn´t work when you have supported him in the past 3.2: Whisper into Aristides ear: "Hey old buddy. We can´t help you this time so perhaps its time for you to quietly get out of there while you can. And hey look over there. There is a plane we forgot all about. Gee it also have fuel enough to bring you to Africa. Wonder what to use that for?". Problem out of the way. Not real justice for the Haitians but the option with least blood spilled.



    This is a black/white picture of the situation. Its much much more complicated (who is going to take over, who are the core of the rebels) but that has to wait.
  • Reply 11 of 18
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,421member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    What the doctor ordered.



    There was three ways of dealing with this.



    1: Sit tight and do nothing. Mini Rwanda in the works. Not a solution today.



    2: Support Aristide. A defacto dictator that would never be able to contain the unsatisfaction of the citizents. US would rightfully have drawn huge blocks of critisism against them, both from strategic, humanitarian and ethical POWs.



    3: Break with Aristide. Two versions. 3.1: Flip sides totally and support the rebels and somehow hand them Aristides ass on a platter. Not an option. Too many deaths, too messy hands and it doesn´t work when you have supported him in the past 3.2: Whisper into Aristides ear: "Hey old buddy. We can´t help you this time so perhaps its time for you to quietly get out of there while you can. And hey look over there. There is a plane we forgot all about. Gee it also have fuel enough to bring you to Africa. Wonder what to use that for?". Problem out of the way. Not real justice for the Haitians but the option with least blood spilled.



    This is a black/white picture of the situation. Its much much more complicated (who is going to take over, who are the core of the rebels) but that has to wait.




    Well said.



    "Yeah....We're gonna need you to go ahead and sort of, resign. Yeah. Thanks a bunch Milton"
  • Reply 12 of 18
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jwri004

    Nice word play



    (BTW, the "rolleyes" were toward the silly statement I made here, not the thread or anyone else's comments. Not sure that was clear upon review. )
  • Reply 13 of 18
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    I always take the word of a de-facto dictator over my own government.



    It's not a great idea to take the word of anyone in a situation like this and it's a much worse idea to take the word of the McClellan and Powell at any time.
  • Reply 14 of 18
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    This was a complicated situation without a clear correct response.



    Aristide turned out to be a terrible President who did little or nothing for his country, who had little commitment to real democratic participation in government, and who created gangs of armed thugs to protect himself and his position. In other words, he was pretty much like every President Haiti has ever had. He was perhaps a bit better than some, as he was originally elected democratically and at least gave some lip-service commitment to improving things in the country, but his ultimate actions fell far short of being acceptable.



    The groups who rose up in armed rebellion against Aristide were formed from the very gangs that he created. They did not rise up in support of democracy, but because they felt that Aristide might being trying to reassert control over them and cut them out of some of the booty. If they or their chosen candidate come to power, they have every promise of being as bad, or likely, worse, than the government they replace. In other words, they are pretty much like every rebellious group Haiti has ever had.



    The immediate response of getting Aristide out ? and likely saving his skin ? seems to have avoided, for now, an immediate additional bloodbath in Haiti. As for long-term solutions, nothing easy or obvious comes to mind.
  • Reply 15 of 18
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    It's not a great idea to take the word of anyone in a situation like this and it's a much worse idea to take the word of the McClellan and Powell at any time.



    I'll take your advice right now.
  • Reply 16 of 18
    curiousuburbcuriousuburb Posts: 3,325member
    Nobody wants to bring bad luck by suggesting it was all voodoo, but this is Haiti...



    [ /jinxproof ]
  • Reply 17 of 18
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Allow me to cut this off at the pass. Giant's point about not necessarily believing Powell and the Bush administration is quite fair so long as you don't necessarily believe the word of Aristide either. Otherwise, we would be talking about a double-standard, and I don't think any rational person would argue for that. I'm sure that was Scott's point in his reply, albeit with a sarcastic tone. Of course, we've seen plenty of that thrown around by all parties before, and we've generally been able to let that stuff go both ways, so let's not get our panties in a bunch just yet.



    And Chinney's right (and more on-topic). It's not like the good guys won or lost because there are no good guys in this situation.
  • Reply 18 of 18
    trick falltrick fall Posts: 1,271member
    Artman, I guess we all have to duck, "when the shit hits the fan"lol:

    Scott, there's not much I'd put past the Bushies. The only thing I trust Bush and his cronies to do is evil.

    On topic, did I really here that Baby Doc is thinking of going back to Haiti?!!!::
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