Take Back The Night, but not if you are a man supporting a woman
Quote:
The New Hampshire - News
Issue: 4/30/04
Feminists feel fraternities took over TBTN
By Andrea Bulfinch - Staff Writer
Marching with the group of survivors and allies who made their way through campus to protest sexual violence and to "Take Back the Night" (TBTN) was another group of protestors. They were fighting not only against sexual violence but also against participation by the Greek community, namely, fraternities.
According to two Feminist Action League (FAL) members, Susan* and Olivia,* having fraternities invited to the event and allowing them to participate was a "slap in the face" and the night turned into a selling out of feminism that actually catered to fraternities.
The two FAL members feel strongly about the night belonging to survivors of sexual violence, a population which they note is largely female. Their argument against fraternities and males participating is that TBTN was originally part of the feminist movement and was designed for women and survivors to literally "take back the night."
"The fact that they're there, they're not letting us take back the night," Susan said. "You couldn't even hear women's voices."
The FAL members believed the participating fraternities and sororities were not there out of sincere support for the cause. They said they saw people from the Greek community leave the speak-out portion of the evening just 20 minutes after it began.
AmeriCorp worker and Chair of the TBTN committee Jess Harrigan did not return messages left for her in the SHARPP office on Monday and Tuesday. Co-chair Sarah McKay did not respond to an email sent to her by TNH.
Normally, a big part of the theme for the evening, according to the two members of FAL, is thanking the Greek community for being a part of the night. But they see this as a contradiction to the cause. In their opinion, fraternities create an environment that fosters the kind of behavior leading to sexual violence.
"We need to stop coddling the perpetrators," Olivia said, adding that rape has become part of what our culture allows to happen. The members said it doesn't seem like the campus wants to take the step of focusing on the well-being of survivors; they believe fraternities, and the Greek community in general, is fed ideas from the administration that they are the leaders of the University.
"How can they fight sexual violence when they have an oppositional stance?" Susan questioned.
But according to Steve Pappajohn, program adviser for Greek Affairs, the Greek community was indeed in attendance with sincere intentions.
"Anyone who was at this year's event could easily see the strong attendance and genuine intentions behind those involved, Greek or non-Greek," Pappajohn wrote in an email. He said that he was proud of the Greek community for supporting survivors and allies and being part of the fight against sexual violence in the community.
He thought it was the protestors who took away from the significance of TBTN.
"As for the anti-fraternity banner, the only thing I would say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that those protesting against fraternity involvement that evening were more of a distraction and nuisance to survivors and the true meaning that is behind an event like TBTN," he said in the email.
The two FAL members compared inviting fraternities to participate at TBTN to sweatshop employees who are protesting against their employer.
"Picture this: A large corporation employs sweatshop labor," Olivia said. "The workers want to hold a march protesting the corporation's misuse of them. The people working at the corporation want to gain some benefit, like rights, higher wages and fair working conditions. And then the corporation leaders are invited to speak and be a part of the event and they are thanked for coming."
By stating their argument this way, they said, the focus is taken off of the uncomfortable issue of feminism.
If the members of fraternities truly were allies, said the FAL members, they would be more supportive in the kind of life they lead. Instead, they said fraternities continue to use degrading language and support things like pornography.
"It was obvious they were lost," said Olivia of the fraternities' participation during TBTN.
Chris Hall, president of the Interfraternity Council and member of Sigma Nu, said fraternities should be allowed to go to the event and show their support. He also thought the protestors wanted to provoke the fraternities and get them to retaliate.
"I think their main focus was to get us riled up to say something back, which we were not at all about to do," he said.
But the two members of FAL said they received threats during the march and were not made to feel welcome, especially by sororities.
"Women themselves hurt other women," Susan said. "And there's a desire, need, misunderstanding, that they have to please men."
"It makes us aware that we're needed," Olivia said. "You know you're telling the truth when people get upset."
The larger issue behind the protestors' actions at TBTN is the fact that the FAL would also like to see fraternities abolished altogether. They said the FAL is "targeting groups, not individuals, who help this culture," adding that "this culture" is one now accepting forms of sexual violence.
"I think to generalize frats in general is a bad assumption," Hall said.
Scott Hampton, who was the keynote speaker at TBTN, said the concept of fraternity could be built on by creating a men's group that is focused specifically against violence against women.
"There's no reason it should be contradictory to the goals of a fraternity," he said.
Hampton said he considers himself a feminist because he believes both men and women should be equals. The members of FAL said that men and women simply being equal is the most basic definition of feminism.
FAL also commented on having a male speaker at TBTN. The issue of consent, they said, which is what Hampton spoke of that evening, is only a certain kind of sexual violence.
"It doesn't address the larger picture," Susan said.
To them, the larger picture included questioning why men have a sense of entitlement when it comes to anything that is positive, including sex, as well as leading the march during TBTN.
The members of FAL believe fraternities only encourage a male-dominated society, something they feel UNH is right now.
"This campus is not conducive to a feminist environment," Susan said. They said there has been a history of harassment at UNH toward feminists and they have learned to be careful in terms of protecting themselves.
However, the FAL wants people to know that they are here to stay.
"We're not going away if anyone was wondering," Olivia said. "We're here for the long haul. We see what they're doing. We're going to tell everyone."
Editor's note: After serious consideration by TNH, the two members of the Feminist Action League were granted anonymity because they expressed concern for their safety after being taunted while protesting during TBTN.
The New Hampshire - News
Issue: 4/30/04
Feminists feel fraternities took over TBTN
By Andrea Bulfinch - Staff Writer
Marching with the group of survivors and allies who made their way through campus to protest sexual violence and to "Take Back the Night" (TBTN) was another group of protestors. They were fighting not only against sexual violence but also against participation by the Greek community, namely, fraternities.
According to two Feminist Action League (FAL) members, Susan* and Olivia,* having fraternities invited to the event and allowing them to participate was a "slap in the face" and the night turned into a selling out of feminism that actually catered to fraternities.
The two FAL members feel strongly about the night belonging to survivors of sexual violence, a population which they note is largely female. Their argument against fraternities and males participating is that TBTN was originally part of the feminist movement and was designed for women and survivors to literally "take back the night."
"The fact that they're there, they're not letting us take back the night," Susan said. "You couldn't even hear women's voices."
The FAL members believed the participating fraternities and sororities were not there out of sincere support for the cause. They said they saw people from the Greek community leave the speak-out portion of the evening just 20 minutes after it began.
AmeriCorp worker and Chair of the TBTN committee Jess Harrigan did not return messages left for her in the SHARPP office on Monday and Tuesday. Co-chair Sarah McKay did not respond to an email sent to her by TNH.
Normally, a big part of the theme for the evening, according to the two members of FAL, is thanking the Greek community for being a part of the night. But they see this as a contradiction to the cause. In their opinion, fraternities create an environment that fosters the kind of behavior leading to sexual violence.
"We need to stop coddling the perpetrators," Olivia said, adding that rape has become part of what our culture allows to happen. The members said it doesn't seem like the campus wants to take the step of focusing on the well-being of survivors; they believe fraternities, and the Greek community in general, is fed ideas from the administration that they are the leaders of the University.
"How can they fight sexual violence when they have an oppositional stance?" Susan questioned.
But according to Steve Pappajohn, program adviser for Greek Affairs, the Greek community was indeed in attendance with sincere intentions.
"Anyone who was at this year's event could easily see the strong attendance and genuine intentions behind those involved, Greek or non-Greek," Pappajohn wrote in an email. He said that he was proud of the Greek community for supporting survivors and allies and being part of the fight against sexual violence in the community.
He thought it was the protestors who took away from the significance of TBTN.
"As for the anti-fraternity banner, the only thing I would say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that those protesting against fraternity involvement that evening were more of a distraction and nuisance to survivors and the true meaning that is behind an event like TBTN," he said in the email.
The two FAL members compared inviting fraternities to participate at TBTN to sweatshop employees who are protesting against their employer.
"Picture this: A large corporation employs sweatshop labor," Olivia said. "The workers want to hold a march protesting the corporation's misuse of them. The people working at the corporation want to gain some benefit, like rights, higher wages and fair working conditions. And then the corporation leaders are invited to speak and be a part of the event and they are thanked for coming."
By stating their argument this way, they said, the focus is taken off of the uncomfortable issue of feminism.
If the members of fraternities truly were allies, said the FAL members, they would be more supportive in the kind of life they lead. Instead, they said fraternities continue to use degrading language and support things like pornography.
"It was obvious they were lost," said Olivia of the fraternities' participation during TBTN.
Chris Hall, president of the Interfraternity Council and member of Sigma Nu, said fraternities should be allowed to go to the event and show their support. He also thought the protestors wanted to provoke the fraternities and get them to retaliate.
"I think their main focus was to get us riled up to say something back, which we were not at all about to do," he said.
But the two members of FAL said they received threats during the march and were not made to feel welcome, especially by sororities.
"Women themselves hurt other women," Susan said. "And there's a desire, need, misunderstanding, that they have to please men."
"It makes us aware that we're needed," Olivia said. "You know you're telling the truth when people get upset."
The larger issue behind the protestors' actions at TBTN is the fact that the FAL would also like to see fraternities abolished altogether. They said the FAL is "targeting groups, not individuals, who help this culture," adding that "this culture" is one now accepting forms of sexual violence.
"I think to generalize frats in general is a bad assumption," Hall said.
Scott Hampton, who was the keynote speaker at TBTN, said the concept of fraternity could be built on by creating a men's group that is focused specifically against violence against women.
"There's no reason it should be contradictory to the goals of a fraternity," he said.
Hampton said he considers himself a feminist because he believes both men and women should be equals. The members of FAL said that men and women simply being equal is the most basic definition of feminism.
FAL also commented on having a male speaker at TBTN. The issue of consent, they said, which is what Hampton spoke of that evening, is only a certain kind of sexual violence.
"It doesn't address the larger picture," Susan said.
To them, the larger picture included questioning why men have a sense of entitlement when it comes to anything that is positive, including sex, as well as leading the march during TBTN.
The members of FAL believe fraternities only encourage a male-dominated society, something they feel UNH is right now.
"This campus is not conducive to a feminist environment," Susan said. They said there has been a history of harassment at UNH toward feminists and they have learned to be careful in terms of protecting themselves.
However, the FAL wants people to know that they are here to stay.
"We're not going away if anyone was wondering," Olivia said. "We're here for the long haul. We see what they're doing. We're going to tell everyone."
Editor's note: After serious consideration by TNH, the two members of the Feminist Action League were granted anonymity because they expressed concern for their safety after being taunted while protesting during TBTN.
Seems some are never satisfied. In this instance we have some feminists protesting the fact that men are marching to help... feminists.
I also find it ironic that they think the campus isn't conducive to feminism when the student body is 57% female and only 42% male.
I've heard several men and women who declare themselves to be feminists declare that when it comes to changes in men's behavior regarding sexual abuse, harassment and so on, that it should be men leading the charge for change.
Yet here we see protests about them even being part of the change.
What do you think?
Nick
Comments
I'm sure they (feminist) would agree that stereotyping is wrong.
The problem here is that if the fraternities are the ones being viewed as the problem, it's easy to see why the people who set this up are upset that they showed up.
A few years ago, I had a friend in high school die because he got drunk on Christmas Eve with a bunch of his friends from the football team and on his way home, climbed up a flight of stairs up onto a porch before falling over the edge to his death. The football team was known for throwing big parties with lots of booze. One of his friends from the team was trying to pass a bartender's exam so he could serve drinks at a local bar and he was testing them out on him.
After that incident, there was a 'rally against drinking' but it was mainly anger towards the football team and the parents that didn't have an issue with serving/buying their kids alcohol. Of course, a lot of the football team showed up to the rally but the real joke was that they continued to have the same types of parties and some were even buzzed when they went to the rally.
It really wouldn't surprise me if this UNH incident was the same type of thing. If the frats are really serious about changing, that's one thing. But if it's going to be the same old song (which I believe it most likely will be), then what good to going to the rally have?
I was in a fraternity, and some houses were the most testosterone ridden rape dens you've ever seen... ours wasn't. We often supported such events, and yeah, we got looked at weird a few times, and sometimes insulted, and every so often, things thrown at us. We were there because *we believed in it*, and if someone else's lack of intelligence or information led them to uncivil behaviour, that was their problem.
Sounds like the two FAL members are an extreme position with loud voices - in other words, the usual people who get media coverage.
I don't think they're doing anybody any favors to be so pompous and exclusionary about their "wounds".
For all I know that frats were total asses about it, but that doesn't excuse this half-mad rhetoric about "who owns the night" and "survivors and their allies (which apparently must be said as one phrase and is defined by the "feminists".
I guess college is a time when some people start taking themselves very very seriously.
Originally posted by trumptman
I've heard several men and women who declare themselves to be feminists declare that when it comes to changes in men's behavior regarding sexual abuse, harassment and so on, that it should be men leading the charge for change.
Yet here we see protests about them even being part of the change.
What do you think?
I think that's a great point, that the men should lead the charge. Unfortunately, they don't. I'm sure some of the guys marching were assholes, and I'm sure most were genuine. These girls sound like the extreme view though.
The men should have their own night as well. Both events are co-ed though.
Originally posted by Scott
I think exclusionary policies should be the norm at universities that provide a liberal education.
That already seems to be the case in Massachusetts. Ever since Romney took office, the public colleges have been gutted, so I've been 'exlcuded' from taking classes I want to take since there either isn't room or they only offer it every other semester due to budget cutbacks.
Originally posted by trumptman
I also find it ironic that they think the campus isn't conducive to feminism when the student body is 57% female and only 42% male.
Don't forget, "10 percent of the UNH population ... is either gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered or questioning". [src]
So, assuming homosexuals, bisexual men (and transgendered even) are allies or at least supportive of the females we can add at least another 5% of "supportive" people to the 57% of women from the male total. (Yes the transgendered aspect muddies the issue- whatever, figure half are "male")
62% vs. 37% ...and even this is flawed since it is outrageous to suggest that 100% of all the heterosexual males are anti-feminism. If we can, worst case, assume that even a mere 3% are supportive of feminist issues, that makes it 65% "conducive to feminism".
What's the national average? And since when is a greater than 57% majority needed to start a cause or make a stand on an issue or to voice your opinion?
Points:
1. GBT wrongly ignored/included when using the infantile math of 'males = anti-feminism'.
2. Not all heterosexual males are anti-feminism.
BTW, I despise Frats/Sororities...I dream of them being abolished someday. But it should be based on many other things.
Originally posted by Scott
I think exclusionary policies should be the norm at universities that provide a liberal education.
Yea, they are. God forbid someone points them out....
The only way to stop sexual assaults is to get both males and females to understand what the problems are, and what is and is not appropriate.