Powerbook Paint/Heat update
Here's a teaser... I'm the one that posted all of the nasty TiBook photos at:
<a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?dir=Defective_Powerbook"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?dir=Defective_Powerbook</a>;
Well, my Mac is going back to Apple. As a result of the initial photos and a few weeks of working against their tech-support hierarchy, I was able to get the logic board replaced (for heat and fan issues), the top-case/bezel (for all the pain blistering) and the battery (because I only got 1.5 hours on a full charge. Now I get 3 hours). I was without my computer for 2 weeks, even though I was promised a 3 day return. Eh, but it came back eventually...
Sounds like a success, right?
Well, the repair folks went through the trouble of gutting my computer and replacing 75% of the body..... but they neglected to touch the peeling hinge paint. (see: <a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics/Defective_Powerbook/ti31.jpg"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics/Defective_Powerbook/ti31.jpg</a>; ) Why go through all of that work and leave that unsightly mess? Ah well, at lease my comp functioned properly.... Boot up.... 8 minutes later, the fan starts. The processor is basically idle. No real CPU activity (less than 15%). The fan stayed on. Yes, I was on a hard surface with a coolpad. This was not an airflow problem.... The fan did not cease operation. It is on 99.9% percent of the time... even when the machine is left idle overnight with the display dimmed.
Hmmm....
I call tech support after a few weeks of this. The paint on the hinges simply fell off. The machine is excessively hot. There is a fingerprint baked onto the bare hinge metal. I'll have to photograph that. So, I was worried. The techs felt that there may be a poor connection between the processor and heatsink. Maybe not enough thermal paste. He had me open the Powerbook and instructed me to conduct a few checks over the phone. "Um, take your machine to the Apple store to determine whether it's out of spec or not."
So I did. I'm in Chicago. The Apple Store is close. I called beforehand and arranged a meeting. The Mac Genius was understanding. We booted up and waited for the fan to start. It usually occurs at 8-12 minutes from cold. Bam! It starts. The Mac Genius freaks out. She hadn't seen anything this bad. I think she was also worried about the fingerprint that was baked onto the hinge.
She immediately deemed this computer a candidate for replacement. Given my mile-long case sheet and paper-trail, she genuinely seemed to want me to have a working machine with a minimal amount of down/repair time. (ever see the Seinfeld where Elaine has a series of doctor visits and they each scribble something furiously at the end of her medical record? That's how I feel. It takes the support people 5 minutes to parse through my case file.)
I agreed. All of the critical parts of my computer were replaced and things were still bad. It's not worth repairing something over and over... Even though it's free of charge, the amount of away-time means a loss in productivity and money (since a lot of Mac users make money with their machines). On a side note, other people in the store were very impressed with my desktop (see: <a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics//screen2.png"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics//screen2.png</a>; ) I actually got two consulting gigs on the spot (I'm a Unix admin/developer).
While I waited to see what the course of action would be, I took a closer look at my machine..... and oh, my... I saw the beginnings of the paint problem again. The paint on the outer bezel is starting to bubble and crack. This is most-certainly related to the heat. The same blue-green specs are starting to appear.
Unfortunately, my case was locked by a senior support person in Apple's top-tier executive relations group. The Mac Genius could only make recommendations for replacement. She didn't have the power to do anything. So, I had to wait until the next business day to appeal to this senior person. (as a sidenote, the Executive relations people seem to be the ones that intercept emails to [email protected]).
It took two days to get him to call me back. He was very unsympathetic to my cause, and made the effort to reinforce that Apple's policy is to repair until a unit is deemed "irrepairable". Hmm... I think the Mac Genius got in trouble for suggesting that I receive a replacement. I stressed the fact that I had been through this before, and am wary of the quality of repair that my unit will receive. Since so much of the machine was replaced during the first repair, why should I trust it again? It's been 5 weeks since it returned from servicing, and the paint is bubbling, the fan is always on, and the heat is outrageous. He simple restated the policy. What an a$$! So, I have a repair dispatch and have to go without the computer again. I'm looking for a job now and have most of my critical data on the computer. Being without it is really inconvenient if you don't have a backup machine. The Exec Relations guy suggested I rent a computer. They will refund the costs of renting a computer, but I can't afford it. Tired, poor and unemployed, I be.
A lot of Apple users will ignore/tolerate their problems so as not to lose productivity. Apple banks on this. That's why there hasn't been a widespread recall of TiBooks with the paint problems. They expect a certain number of people to dismiss it as normal wear-and-tear. Those that complain get theirs replaced on a case-by-case basis....only after pi$$ing and moaning for 3 weeks and posting photos all over the web. Apple relies on this ignorance. I find it quite amusing that people don't know what to expect. I talked to a service rep, complaining about the battery life on my laptop, and how it was 1.5 hours until Apple replaced the battery. Now, it's 3-3.5 hours. He freaked, as he's never been able to eeek-out more than 1:45.
Apple knows that its customers have a certain degree of brand loyalty, and can approach its business as a monopolist at times. The demand for the products is pretty elastic, since it would take a LOT for me to switch to a PC or Unix variant full-time. I just think that a lot of time/effort would be saved if I received a replacement unit. I'm not asking for the latest and greatest, but just a comparable Revision B. I dislike the fact that we have to fight for good service and that this policy only applies in the most extreme of cases. Personally, I don't want a rebuilt, hacked-together piece of electronics. I dunno. What do y'all think?
<a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?dir=Defective_Powerbook"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?dir=Defective_Powerbook</a>;
Well, my Mac is going back to Apple. As a result of the initial photos and a few weeks of working against their tech-support hierarchy, I was able to get the logic board replaced (for heat and fan issues), the top-case/bezel (for all the pain blistering) and the battery (because I only got 1.5 hours on a full charge. Now I get 3 hours). I was without my computer for 2 weeks, even though I was promised a 3 day return. Eh, but it came back eventually...
Sounds like a success, right?
Well, the repair folks went through the trouble of gutting my computer and replacing 75% of the body..... but they neglected to touch the peeling hinge paint. (see: <a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics/Defective_Powerbook/ti31.jpg"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics/Defective_Powerbook/ti31.jpg</a>; ) Why go through all of that work and leave that unsightly mess? Ah well, at lease my comp functioned properly.... Boot up.... 8 minutes later, the fan starts. The processor is basically idle. No real CPU activity (less than 15%). The fan stayed on. Yes, I was on a hard surface with a coolpad. This was not an airflow problem.... The fan did not cease operation. It is on 99.9% percent of the time... even when the machine is left idle overnight with the display dimmed.
Hmmm....
I call tech support after a few weeks of this. The paint on the hinges simply fell off. The machine is excessively hot. There is a fingerprint baked onto the bare hinge metal. I'll have to photograph that. So, I was worried. The techs felt that there may be a poor connection between the processor and heatsink. Maybe not enough thermal paste. He had me open the Powerbook and instructed me to conduct a few checks over the phone. "Um, take your machine to the Apple store to determine whether it's out of spec or not."
So I did. I'm in Chicago. The Apple Store is close. I called beforehand and arranged a meeting. The Mac Genius was understanding. We booted up and waited for the fan to start. It usually occurs at 8-12 minutes from cold. Bam! It starts. The Mac Genius freaks out. She hadn't seen anything this bad. I think she was also worried about the fingerprint that was baked onto the hinge.
She immediately deemed this computer a candidate for replacement. Given my mile-long case sheet and paper-trail, she genuinely seemed to want me to have a working machine with a minimal amount of down/repair time. (ever see the Seinfeld where Elaine has a series of doctor visits and they each scribble something furiously at the end of her medical record? That's how I feel. It takes the support people 5 minutes to parse through my case file.)I agreed. All of the critical parts of my computer were replaced and things were still bad. It's not worth repairing something over and over... Even though it's free of charge, the amount of away-time means a loss in productivity and money (since a lot of Mac users make money with their machines). On a side note, other people in the store were very impressed with my desktop (see: <a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics//screen2.png"; target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/pics//screen2.png</a>; ) I actually got two consulting gigs on the spot (I'm a Unix admin/developer).
While I waited to see what the course of action would be, I took a closer look at my machine..... and oh, my... I saw the beginnings of the paint problem again. The paint on the outer bezel is starting to bubble and crack. This is most-certainly related to the heat. The same blue-green specs are starting to appear.
Unfortunately, my case was locked by a senior support person in Apple's top-tier executive relations group. The Mac Genius could only make recommendations for replacement. She didn't have the power to do anything. So, I had to wait until the next business day to appeal to this senior person. (as a sidenote, the Executive relations people seem to be the ones that intercept emails to [email protected]).
It took two days to get him to call me back. He was very unsympathetic to my cause, and made the effort to reinforce that Apple's policy is to repair until a unit is deemed "irrepairable". Hmm... I think the Mac Genius got in trouble for suggesting that I receive a replacement. I stressed the fact that I had been through this before, and am wary of the quality of repair that my unit will receive. Since so much of the machine was replaced during the first repair, why should I trust it again? It's been 5 weeks since it returned from servicing, and the paint is bubbling, the fan is always on, and the heat is outrageous. He simple restated the policy. What an a$$! So, I have a repair dispatch and have to go without the computer again. I'm looking for a job now and have most of my critical data on the computer. Being without it is really inconvenient if you don't have a backup machine. The Exec Relations guy suggested I rent a computer. They will refund the costs of renting a computer, but I can't afford it. Tired, poor and unemployed, I be.
A lot of Apple users will ignore/tolerate their problems so as not to lose productivity. Apple banks on this. That's why there hasn't been a widespread recall of TiBooks with the paint problems. They expect a certain number of people to dismiss it as normal wear-and-tear. Those that complain get theirs replaced on a case-by-case basis....only after pi$$ing and moaning for 3 weeks and posting photos all over the web. Apple relies on this ignorance. I find it quite amusing that people don't know what to expect. I talked to a service rep, complaining about the battery life on my laptop, and how it was 1.5 hours until Apple replaced the battery. Now, it's 3-3.5 hours. He freaked, as he's never been able to eeek-out more than 1:45.
Apple knows that its customers have a certain degree of brand loyalty, and can approach its business as a monopolist at times. The demand for the products is pretty elastic, since it would take a LOT for me to switch to a PC or Unix variant full-time. I just think that a lot of time/effort would be saved if I received a replacement unit. I'm not asking for the latest and greatest, but just a comparable Revision B. I dislike the fact that we have to fight for good service and that this policy only applies in the most extreme of cases. Personally, I don't want a rebuilt, hacked-together piece of electronics. I dunno. What do y'all think?
Comments
My suggestion is to stop being greedy and get the damn thing fixed. If you really do work on it, and it's not working, you'd want it repaired ASAP. And paint-chipping is not a good reason for downtime. Get some tipaint from Tipaint.com if it's that big a deal. Just wait and see what happens this time...
<strong>What do I think? I think you want a new TiBook. You would not be satisfied with anything less. Not only that, you want a BETTER TiBook. 800mhz, no less. Am I right? I think you're being a little greedy. One repair is not unusual. No one makes perfect computers. Two repairs for the same problem would tick me off, but I'd understand. Now if you have to send it off again, then I'd agree you should get a new computer.
My suggestion is to stop being greedy and get the damn thing fixed. If you really do work on it, and it's not working, you'd want it repaired ASAP. And paint-chipping is not a good reason for downtime. Get some tipaint from Tipaint.com if it's that big a deal. Just wait and see what happens this time...</strong><hr></blockquote>
*cough* troll */cough* Jesus Cristo, what the hell is your problem? If I spent upwards of $3000 on a laptop, I wouldn't accept it being so hot the paint peeled off. ewwhite deserves a new laptop and Apple should give him one.
that wear and tear was awful for a laptop! some of the areas where paint was missing were not normal wear and tear problems.
also sounds like the apple reps at the store were in agreement with him.
problem is there isn't anything you can really do about it other than keep sending it back until they give you a new machine. see if you can borrow a friends laptop or something if you can't afford to rent. nothing short of multiple repairs will get you a new machine on this one, sounds like that apple exec has your number.
-alcimedes
[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
<strong>I'm not trolling, I swear. I've got a tibook myself and the paint is chipping on it also. But I've decided that I'll get over it. The chipping on the hinges is bad, but the problem is there is no way for anyone to know if it's abuse or a defect.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You ARE a troll. I don't know about your issue, but the paint on my computer was chipping and bubbling. If you've chosen not to do anything about your computer, that's your decision. You fall into the category of users that will tolerate or ignore manufacturing defects. Apple banks on your ignorance. Your multi-thousand dollar computer's paint should not be chipping. It's quite easy to determine misuse/abuse from a defect.
[quote]<strong>The fact is, he wants a new computer. The comp works ok, it's just chipping paint. And they did replace it all for him. I'd see his point if there were multiple components failing, but there aren't. I'm just tired of all the cry-babies, that's all.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you read? Multiple components did fail. Bad logic board, bad battery, bad cosmetics. I took my computer in for repair because the fan was active 99% of the time, regardless of CPU load. In addition, the machine was VERY hot, and the remaining hinge paint literally fell off. The hinge paint was a function of the abnormal amount of heat being generated by the computer...evidently, a processor/heatsink/logic board problem. This was deemed out of spec by Apple's own technicians. That's why it was replaced initially, and I'm very disappointed to see the replacement parts (top case, logic board) fail again after 5 weeks..
[quote]<strong>(Besides, this guy has been cross-posting all over the place with his pictures. And he's been a rabble-rouser in the past with some hinge issue, I believe.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You ARE a troll. I'm trying to get this information out there. You couldn't imagine the number of people that e-mail me citing the same problems with their computers. This problem is documented now. I received my "repaired" machine five weeks ago. I was willing to put up with the cosmetic problems that Apple did not fix. But, when the heat/fan problems worsened over the past two weeks, I couldn't ignore the situation any longer. I'm still paying for this computer. I do a lot of consulting work, and to see Powerbooks of the same vintage operating properly, I know that I deserve something within spec.
By the way, I was one of the first to document the Wallstreet hinge issues. That was a pretty bad deal, since it affects every Wallstreet Powerbook (in time). I don't think that was causing ruckus just for the heck of it.
May you get that new computer you want and live happily ever. May your paint never chip again. Peace.
ps - out of the 750 posts I have, about 5 have been as negative as my first in this thread. I apologize for the tone. I'm just not troll material.
haven't seen this person's other posts, and in this case, assuming everything is on the up-and-up, he should get a new machine.
the fan/heat issues are the kicker. sounds like a short or a bad heat exchange connection. although that's weird that it would happen even after everything has been replaced.
just for kicks, have you tried taking apart your TiBook and reapplying thermal paste to the heat exchanger? not sure that it would work, but would be your best bet at this point.
of course, that might also kill your warrenty, so i'd be hesitant to do that in your shoes.
-alcimedes
p.s. torifile isn't a troll, you two just don't get along.
[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
<strong>Fine, you get your panties in a wad over your chipped paint, I'll just accept it. It's not ignorance. It's a conscious decision.
May you get that new computer you want and live happily ever. May your paint never chip again. Peace.
ps - out of the 750 posts I have, about 5 have been as negative as my first in this thread. I apologize for the tone. I'm just not troll material.</strong><hr></blockquote>
c'mon man, just admit you made the wrong call. how about you forget he said chipping paint, his book is too hot and too loud, failed repairs... over 5 weeks downtime, c'mon, to say the least he deserves a new Ti.
<a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/theseus.html"; target="_blank">http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/theseus.html</a>;
Take a look at Theseus' ship, only imagine that it's a huuman body with a virus, so each part is infected as it is replaced, or, as in this case, a cooling system each part of which melts after being replaced because the cooling system isn't working. You can't replace one piece at a time because all the others are broken too.
Especially consider that it's a laptop. Every part of it is miniaturized and run as close to maximum heat as possible without breakage. If the paint has blistered off, rather than chipping, and he has undeniable evidence that such is the case, then the screen lamp has been slowly roasted, the motherboard has been cooked, the airport card and ram have been simmered gently....
Running out of spec to that extent lowers the life-expectancy of all the parts. It's only fair that the collateral damage be repaired at the same time as the cause of the damage. In this case, you might assume the trackpad and keyboard haven't been artificially aged. Perhaps Apple should transplant those so your sense of decency need not be offended at ewwhite being unfairly given a new computer.
<strong>
c'mon man, just admit you made the wrong call. how about you forget he said chipping paint, his book is too hot and too loud, failed repairs... over 5 weeks downtime, c'mon, to say the least he deserves a new Ti.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who, me, wrong?? Never...