Apple Q3-04 Results - iMac delay may hurt

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Units:



iMac - 243,000 (includes eMac)

iBook - 240,000

PowerBook - 220,000

Power Mac - 173,000



From a units perspective, the iMac is extremely important to Apple.



I hope their iMac launch screwup won't hurt iMac sales momentum... but it probably already has.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    bborofkabborofka Posts: 230member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    Units:



    iMac - 243,000 (includes eMac)

    iBook - 240,000

    PowerBook - 220,000

    Power Mac - 173,000



    From a units perspective, the iMac is extremely important to Apple.



    I hope their iMac launch screwup won't hurt iMac sales momentum... but it probably already has.




    And from the year ago quarter:



    iMac - 287,000 (-15%)

    iBook - 190,000 (+26%)

    PowerBook - 161,000 (+37%)

    PowerMac - 133,000 (+30%)



    Overall, unit sales are up 15%, which is good. I wonder how that compares with the PC industry?



    I'm surprised the laptops got such a big boost in sales, despite their modest little update. I suppose it's just market trends.



    iMac is considerably down (last quarter it was down too) which is no surprise, but still extremely disappointing. They've let it sit untouched for nearly a year now with no update or price decrease. Interestingly, the iMac is still the best selling Mac and that only shows the untapped potential of the consumer space. If only they'd really make a Mac that would take advantage of that market and boost marketshare.



    PowerMac sales are up, but that's obviously due to the Xserve G5 and the big sales as of late to Universities, the army, etc. PowerMac sales are still well below 200k mark, which is disappointing.
  • Reply 2 of 12
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,122member
    Quote:

    PowerMac sales are up, but that's obviously due to the Xserve G5 and the big sales as of late to Universities, the army, etc. PowerMac sales are still well below 200k mark, which is disappointing.



    Why does everyone seem to think that sub 200k Powermac sales are disappointing? Apple was very clear in the conference call about this. Powerbooks are becoming desktop replacements. They've said this for years yet people cannot seem to wrap their heads around the concept that not everyone needs a tower. I'm not venting at you bborofka but rather to idiocy of comparing tower sales as if they are a litmus test for overall sales growth.
  • Reply 3 of 12
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Why does everyone seem to think that sub 200k Powermac sales are disappointing? Apple was very clear in the conference call about this. Powerbooks are becoming desktop replacements. They've said this for years yet people cannot seem to wrap their heads around the concept that not everyone needs a tower. I'm not venting at you bborofka but rather to idiocy of comparing tower sales as if they are a litmus test for overall sales growth.



    Because 1) it's not true and 2) they are just treading water. Laptops have always been desktop replacements.



    The laptops of 5+ years ago were perfectly acceptable desktop replacements. At least the Apple ones were. Apple should be shipping more total units every quarter, but they always hover around the ~800K mark.
  • Reply 4 of 12
    scottibscottib Posts: 381member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bborofka

    And from the year ago quarter:



    iMac - 287,000 (-15%)

    iBook - 190,000 (+33%)

    PowerBook - 161,000 (+20%)

    PowerMac - 133,000 (+42%)





    I believe you transposed the columns when reading the data summary:



    iBook +26% in unit sales (33% for revenue)

    PowerBook +37% (20%, revenue)

    PowerMac +30% (42%, revenue)



    Average price of Mac sold: U$1441.78
  • Reply 5 of 12
    bborofkabborofka Posts: 230member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by scottiB

    I believe you transposed the columns when reading the data summary:



    iBook +26% in unit sales (33% for revenue)

    PowerBook +37% (20%, revenue)

    PowerMac +30% (42%, revenue)



    Average price of Mac sold: U$1441.78




    My bad, I read the percentages from the wrong column. message fixed.
  • Reply 6 of 12
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    Units:



    iMac - 243,000 (includes eMac)

    iBook - 240,000

    PowerBook - 220,000

    Power Mac - 173,000



    From a units perspective, the iMac is extremely important to Apple.




    Well, as they only sold 60,000 this quarter, and would have expected to sell even less (of the current model) in the next couple of months.......I don't think they will take too much of a hit.
  • Reply 7 of 12
    hobbeshobbes Posts: 1,252member
    On the contrary, the lack of an iMac doesn't look it's going to hurt Apple much, if at all, for the next quarter. iMac sales have been very low.
  • Reply 8 of 12
    bborofkabborofka Posts: 230member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Why does everyone seem to think that sub 200k Powermac sales are disappointing? Apple was very clear in the conference call about this. Powerbooks are becoming desktop replacements. They've said this for years yet people cannot seem to wrap their heads around the concept that not everyone needs a tower. I'm not venting at you bborofka but rather to idiocy of comparing tower sales as if they are a litmus test for overall sales growth.



    Apple's Q3 unit sales aren't where they were 5 years. The Switch ad campaign failed horribly. Look:



    Code:




    Year Units (k)Revenue (billion)

    1999 905,000 $1.560

    2000 1,016,000 $1.825

    2001 827,000 $1.475

    2002 808,000 $1.430

    2003 771,000 $1.545

    2004 876,000 $2.014









    Obviously, their revenues are up, but that's due to the iPod. They sell about as many of those as they do Macs now.



    The point I was trying to make is the dismal lack of real growth in Apple's unit sales. It's obvious people are replacing their PowerMacs with PowerBooks more and more frequently now, hence the lower PowerMac numbers. But at the same time, PC users should be replacing their PC desktops with PowerMacs (ideally), but their not, otherwise their PowerMac #'s would remain high while PowerBook units go up. Mac users are buying Macs and that's it.



    So it's just more evidence of the same old lack of growth of the Mac market. I'm not against the argument that laptops are becoming more popular than desktops, but there's still a gigantic market of PC desktops out there that Apple could be tapping into.



    Yeah, unit sales are up 15% over the year ago quarter, but they had gotten so low (771k), they're just catching up. Apple only cares about revenue growth now, and not marketshare growth. I guess it is all about money, anyways.



  • Reply 9 of 12
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,122member
    bborofka



    You can't glean anything useful from those stats. The markets are vastly different. When I worked for the MacZone in the late 90s we were banging out computers left and right. This was the consumer revolution. Families where lucky then to have one computer for the household because the average price of a computer was probably around $1800. Today I don't expect to see many unit sales because the market leveled off for everyone even PCs after 2001.



    Quote:

    Obviously, their revenues are up, but that's due to the iPod. They sell about as many of those as they do Macs now



    No look at the number. Apple is at 876k units at Q3. They still have another quarter to go which will put them over 900k units for 2004. They haven't hit this amount of sales since 2000. The higher revenues are based, not on iPod sales but rather Apple is selling Xserves, Powermacs in better numbers which are higher ticket items. Apple sold a boatload of iMac when they came out but they were only $1299 so revenue wouldn't skyrocket like seeling a boatload of $3000 computers.



    What we're going to see is a market lag. People are hearing hat Macs are the "in" thing now but that still won't make them run out and buy a Mac. It's going to be a slow process but Apple will eventually hit 10 billion annually then 12, then 15 then hopefully in 5 years or so they'll be at almost 20 billion annually but it's going to take them moving into new areas and capitalizing on these areas. Which is why I cringe everytime Jobs denounces opportunitis. Apple needs to be focused on maximum profit for as little effort as possible. They also need to leverage their newfound trust in the PC community by looking to push more products to PC users. iPod, AE, iTunes should only be the start of cross platform products from Apple. Loving a Mac doesn't mean you have to hate PCs.
  • Reply 10 of 12
    bborofkabborofka Posts: 230member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    You can't glean anything useful from those stats. The markets are vastly different. When I worked for the MacZone in the late 90s we were banging out computers left and right. This was the consumer revolution. Families where lucky then to have one computer for the household because the average price of a computer was probably around $1800. Today I don't expect to see many unit sales because the market leveled off for everyone even PCs after 2001.



    Perhaps the markets are different, but there's still people going to be buying computers, and lots of them. It's just a matter of whether its the first computer they've ever bought or if they're replacing an older one. Apple clearly needs to target PC buyers looking to replace their old PCs.



    Those stats show stagnant growth. Apple struggles hard to sell 1 million or more Macs a quarter year after year. They just can't break through and increase marketshare.



    Quote:

    No look at the number. Apple is at 876k units at Q3. They still have another quarter to go which will put them over 900k units for 2004. They haven't hit this amount of sales since 2000. The higher revenues are based, not on iPod sales but rather Apple is selling Xserves, Powermacs in better numbers which are higher ticket items. Apple sold a boatload of iMac when they came out but they were only $1299 so revenue wouldn't skyrocket like seeling a boatload of $3000 computers.



    Those numbers above are for Q3 of that year, not year-to-date. They sold more units then than they are now, but they're making more revenue now. So basically, they'd rather sell less or the same Macs but with higher margins. I'd rather they'd just focus on raw unit sales, I think revenue would then take care of itself. Imagine if unit sales after 2000 steadily increased to 1.5 million in Q3 '04. I'm sure Apple would be over $2 billion.



    Quote:

    What we're going to see is a market lag. People are hearing hat Macs are the "in" thing now but that still won't make them run out and buy a Mac. It's going to be a slow process but Apple will eventually hit 10 billion annually then 12, then 15 then hopefully in 5 years or so they'll be at almost 20 billion annually but it's going to take them moving into new areas and capitalizing on these areas. Which is why I cringe everytime Jobs denounces opportunitis. Apple needs to be focused on maximum profit for as little effort as possible. They also need to leverage their newfound trust in the PC community by looking to push more products to PC users. iPod, AE, iTunes should only be the start of cross platform products from Apple. Loving a Mac doesn't mean you have to hate PCs.



    What's the point of increasing revenues so high if unit sales and marketshare stay at stagnant, low levels? This is Apple's biggest problem today. They're obviously having huge success with iPod and iTunes, among other things. The Mac market, however, is just treading water and not going anywhere. There needs to be long term, large scale plans to sell more Macs to the masses.
  • Reply 11 of 12
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison



    Today I don't expect to see many unit sales because the market leveled off for everyone even PCs after 2001.




    You just seem way out in left-field on this one. Even in the US, there are still plenty of first-time buyers to advantage of. Dell and HP are tussling for marketshare AND increasing shipments quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year.



    Quote:

    No look at the number. Apple is at 876k units at Q3. They still have another quarter to go which will put them over 900k units for 2004. They haven't hit this amount of sales since 2000. The higher revenues are based, not on iPod sales but rather Apple is selling Xserves, Powermacs in better numbers which are higher ticket items. Apple sold a boatload of iMac when they came out but they were only $1299 so revenue wouldn't skyrocket like seeling a boatload of $3000 computers.



    Apple ships about 3M computers a year, not 900K...heh. The revenue strength is entirely from iPod sales. Power Mac gross margins are much lower than Apple wants.



    Quote:

    Loving a Mac doesn't mean you have to hate PCs.



    But in reality it almost does...
  • Reply 12 of 12
    kenaustuskenaustus Posts: 883member
    The main area where the delayed iMac will hurt is in the number of sales that it can generate between now and Christmas. Lack of G5 chips is the killer, not the lack of old versions to sell. (When looking at the results remember that those sales also included eMacs, and they have filled enough education orders to make that scarce.)



    PowerMac sales were also surprisingly healthy, even with the LONG delay in the 90 nm chips.



    One key is that people have been waiting. I know jack squat about computers, but I did read last fall that IBM said they were ramping 90 nm production during dec 04. Like a lot of others I figured an announcement in January, PMs starting to flow in Feb/Mar with the iMac a month or two later.



    I have been waiting since last fall to buy a 20" iMac. Almost pulled the trigger in January, but decided to wait. Still check Apple's web site a few times a day, "just in case". As soon as it shows up I'm reading what they say and order one with a 20" screen. No waiting, just like the Airport Express I ordered within 15 minutes of seeing it - came today, by the way. I don't want to be far down the backorder list!



    How many others have waited? For the new iMac? For a 3 gig PM? From reading the boards I would bet a lot. That means a big group of orders pushed from one quarter to the next.



    Now things are a bit different. 90 nm G5 PMs are here, even if they are less than 3 gigs. New displays to get people drooling - especially the 30". New iMac soon.



    For me the situation is simple: while the delay may hurt between now and September it's worth it as the iMac AND the PM are going to sell like mad. I have a feeling that there will be backorders on the iMac through the Christmas season. Could be worse if the styling catches the eye of all the PC users who have bought Macs.
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