How about the Apple Core

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
A group of devices based around a central computer running osX with various seperate monitors and keyboards?



like stripped down ibooks all connected wirelessly to the central hub.



I think of this as I use my powerbook and my wife wants to check her e-mail



OSX is running two instances and 2 users at the same time- why must we switch users on the same appliance.



if we had a stripped down monitor and keyboard/mouse she could be sitting on the couch typing away at a low processor intensive task and I could be playing music or whatever. Same processor shared. We are unix based here and I don't see any reason why this isn't a feasable device for apple.



I conjecture here it would be a fantastic way to beat dell. Make one reasonably fast computer and have multiple stations and users all logged into it. Everyone int he house can use One computer. Just add the little ibook like devices (in cute colors or patterns) Strip down the hardware to perhaps a usb port or firewire. Then my wife can sych her ipod and I can synch my ipod at the same time. Or, include an ipod docking station.



build in low power consumption and give it a 5 hour battery life.



Under $800 or so or better yet make it the price of the lowest dells. Then all programs and such sit on one drive and you don't have the hassle of all of those instances of MS windows to maintain.



The user with the admin task can then set up the desktops of the other users. Don't want junior messing with a program don't put it on his desktop or don't give junior the rights to download and install software.



Run all utilities on a scheduled basis and the virus scans etc on all files then. Hard disk space is cheap.





More conjecture- let's say we want to play a game on the Apple Core, and there are 3 users using the system at that time Junior's game is too slow. He complains and we solve the problem by adding another Core (could be wired to the first) The second core is just another processor without hard drive or monitor adds to the speed of the whole system use xgrid for this.



ibook like appliance can be continually upgraded with better GPU and screens.



Question for the group-

can this be done?

Will it sell?

Can we run 2or more airport/ethernet instances at once to increse speeds of data transmission?

if so then- would airport express be a step in the multiple stream method?

it has an ethernet port and a usb hub and streams wireless data could we use 2 airport express's to pump out more data from the Apple Core to the ibook like device?



Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    It's entirely possible. That is how our UNIX machines at work used to work. One DEC 5000 and 4 dumb terminals hanging off it. Your idea would accomplish this wirelessly. I'm not sure how well this would sell though since the value would have to be significantly better than grabbing a refurb or low end machine that would have its own distinct advantages over a dumb terminal.



    My take:



    Absolutely possible and used currently in places but not probable at all from Apple.
  • Reply 2 of 18
    vinney57vinney57 Posts: 1,162member
    I think Apple would prefer to sell you a computer each.
  • Reply 3 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by vinney57

    I think Apple would prefer to sell you a computer each.





    prefer yes,



    What is the margin on an ibook-



    what would the margin be on this appliance



    what are the margins on the ipod



    I would bet that the little appliance units would garner quite a high per unit margin. And, bring market share!



    Why do people buy the $400 dell?



    Would the benefit of the apple appliance be comperable?



    No, this isn't for the first time computer buyer. It is for the additional unit in the home environment. The personal appliance in your study or in the kitchen. It could even, with the ipod be your music server using rendevous and airport express.
  • Reply 4 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    prefer yes,



    What is the margin on an ibook-



    what would the margin be on this appliance



    what are the margins on the ipod



    I would bet that the little appliance units would garner quite a high per unit margin. And, bring market share!



    Why do people buy the $400 dell?



    Would the benefit of the apple appliance be comperable?



    No, this isn't for the first time computer buyer. It is for the additional unit in the home environment. The personal appliance in your study or in the kitchen. It could even, with the ipod be your music server using rendevous and airport express.




    Network appliances like this have been tried and died many times (and many times euthanized even before production began). The $400 Dell for all practical purposes is still a full blown machine with its own advantages and autonomy in absence of the main machine you would require for the terminals you envision. Having the terminals hanging this way introduces the "single point of failure" problem inherent in this design. In an office environment it works well since there is dedicated IT to get the main machine back up and running quickly. That is much less likely in a home environment. Personally, I could see more value in a 3 year old G3 iBook that I would probably realize from a network terminal.
  • Reply 5 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    I see,



    I would think that the single point of cpu-ness would be a selling point to those craving simplicity. Junior can't wreck the machine and can still run all of the software on the main machine.



    If apple gives some great warantee on the main processor or apple care built in to the price, why would this still be a downer.



    In a family environment with files everywhere wouldn't a single place of storage be ideal. (assuming good backup, perhaps a second mirrored drive for continuous backup)



    if the appliance were cheap enough ($300 bux) wouldn't this be a simple and practical solution?



    perhaps add simple internet connection to the wifi and then you could take the little thing with you to the internet cafe and use iapps from .mac or download from itms to ipod.



    just add word processing to iapps.



    All of your important data is at home safe not sitting in your backpack.



    how about bundling an ichat camera into the little thing this way you could AVchat with your family members or friends from each appliance.



    I think that this idea for the web appliance didn't make it before is because to surf the web you, in the past, needed a wired connection. Now, you can go outside and find a wifi hotspot or use an Airport Express connection. You are mobile and your data is mobile.



    Wifi is on airplanes now. Why lug around your data? with remote desktop you can be anywhere and your data is in one place.



    I seems to me that the technology is about ripe. For apple (no pun intended)



    No, this isn't a tablet idea
  • Reply 6 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    I see,



    I would think that the single point of cpu-ness would be a selling point to those craving simplicity. Junior can't wreck the machine and can still run all of the software on the main machine.



    If apple gives some great warantee on the main processor or apple care built in to the price, why would this still be a downer.



    In a family environment with files everywhere wouldn't a single place of storage be ideal. (assuming good backup, perhaps a second mirrored drive for continuous backup)



    if the appliance were cheap enough ($300 bux) wouldn't this be a simple and practical solution?



    perhaps add simple internet connection to the wifi and then you could take the little thing with you to the internet cafe and use iapps from .mac or download from itms to ipod.



    just add word processing to iapps.



    All of your important data is at home safe not sitting in your backpack.




    You have some points, but in absence of any connection the device becomes less useful than a pocket calculator. Now, if you made this argument in regard to educational environments it is different. Students could use your dumb terminal iBooks for example and they become less of a target for pilfering for the *exact* reason they are unpopular to normal consumers. They are also less likely to become screwed up through use and configuration management is very simple.



    I do not see this becoming popular with regular consumers anytime soon though. As component prices drop there comes a point where a consumer will opt to pay the bit extra for a fully functional device over a crippled one.
  • Reply 7 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    that's fine, for the consumer, If they want to go for the extra bux for the more fully formed unit then that's great. But think of this little thing as a accessory like a keyboard and not as a computer. without much of the guts of a laptop you can make them really cool vis a vie design. And light.



    Now, while I was editing my previous post you posted. so, I ask you to re-read my previous post (please) and think about remote desktop and .mac integration.



    still keep in mind this thing is only about the price of an ipod and gives you the functionality of a laptop.



    Consumers buy 2 machines the base and the remote. The remote can get upgraded more often (yearly or so) and the base (every 2 years or so, or get added to by adding a more functional base.)



    Consumers can also buy simple or more fancy remotes with features like bigger screens or ichat av cameras built in.



    For the wife unit with 12" screen ichat AV (miini) built in and accessorize with small ipod min $250)i all in pink total $350



    For me Silver 17" screen, ichat av. and 40gb ipod ($500) and throw in Airport express ($129) so I can use it on the road. total $600 total weight 2.5 lbs



    base unit with superdrive and whatever processor is required 1,500-$3000 depending on features.



    Total apple sale on day 1 = 3329- $4500



    we get in essence 3 computers.



    go to apple store and buy imac 1500

    buy ibook 1000

    buy ipod 299+



    buy second ibook 1000

    buy second ipod 250



    ichat av x2 $300



    total = $4300



    percieved minimum savings of $1000 and the benefit is the system is percieved to grow with your family's needs.
  • Reply 8 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    that's fine, for the consumer, If they want to go for the extra bux for the more fully formed unit then that's great. But think of this little thing as a accessory like a keyboard and not as a computer. without much of the guts of a laptop you can make them really cool vis a vie design. And light.



    Now, while I was editing my previous post you posted. so, I ask you to re-read my previous post (please) and think about remote desktop and .mac integration.



    still keep in mind this thing is only about the price of an ipod and gives you the functionality of a laptop. Consumers buy 2 machines the base and the remote.




    WiFi is getting better but still not pervasive enough to justify this yet.



    I thought a bit more about the hardware too. What can you leave out of an iBook and make this idea work? The hard drive could go and so could the optical drive. You still have processor, RAM (this is more important expecially with diskless operation) display (biggest cost probably).



    Now, here is a big one. WHere is the OS stored? OS X is no small thing and it will need to be local if you are *anywhere* out of range of your home base (ie - coffee shop, plane, etc...). You would need some decent sized SRAM or include a small drive. I am not certain of the costs for either but they could negate the benefit of losing the hard drive and optical drive.



    In the future WiFi will certainly be more prevalent but remember that fully featured machines will also come down in price. I guess we'll see but for now this type of machine is best suited to corporate/educational environment.



    ps - you are quite correct that .Mac is a great answer to the data storage question and it will continue to evolve toward this end I'm sure.
  • Reply 9 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    why can't we have an os X lite for on the road applications.



    What kind of processor do you really need if the base is doing the heavy lifting. and the GPU is doing all of the display?



    Ram is pretty cheap 1gig is like $150 wholesale. put in 3 gig and use it for storage of the apps that you absolutely need on the road. At home they are served to you by the base.



    on the road and for internet use why not use a low power chip for the bare bones application processing (no big games for that get a laptop) or something (i don't know)







    ok how bout this



    Add an appliance like a hybrid ipod and cellphone with wifi now you can use the ipod as a modem or wifi node as well when travelling far from your base and out of range of the nearest starbucks? this device is $500. and can be sold to anyone. There is a demand for this unit.



    In essence I think I just described the digital hub?



    but think about the little appliance in cool colors
  • Reply 10 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    why can't we have an os X lite for on the road applications.



    What kind of processor do you really need if the base is doing the heavy lifting. and the GPU is doing all of the display?



    Ram is pretty cheap 1gig is like $150 wholesale. put in 3 gig and use it for storage of the apps that you absolutely need on the road. At home they are served to you by the base.



    on the road and for internet use why not use a low power chip for the bare bones application processing (no big games for that get a laptop) or something (i don't know)







    ok how bout this



    Add an appliance like a hybrid ipod and cellphone with wifi now you can use the ipod as a modem or wifi node as well when travelling far from your base and out of range of the nearest starbucks? this device is $500. and can be sold to anyone. There is a demand for this unit.



    In essence I think I just described the digital hub?



    but think about the little appliance in cool colors




    Technology is certainly not the issue at all (except wireless availability which improves over time). The RAM cost you mention would cost 300 - 450 alone (assuming Apple gets better than wholesale price on it). The display, processor (even low end power savvy ones), wireless, graphics chips. I'm having a tough time seeing a device significantly less costly than an iBook (low end model) which would have enough draw to justify its existence (currently). As for future products...well who knows.
  • Reply 11 of 18
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    why can't we have an os X lite for on the road applications.



    What kind of processor do you really need if the base is doing the heavy lifting. and the GPU is doing all of the display?



    Ram is pretty cheap 1gig is like $150 wholesale. put in 3 gig and use it for storage of the apps that you absolutely need on the road. At home they are served to you by the base.



    on the road and for internet use why not use a low power chip for the bare bones application processing (no big games for that get a laptop) or something (i don't know)







    ok how bout this



    Add an appliance like a hybrid ipod and cellphone with wifi now you can use the ipod as a modem or wifi node as well when travelling far from your base and out of range of the nearest starbucks? this device is $500. and can be sold to anyone. There is a demand for this unit.



    In essence I think I just described the digital hub?



    but think about the little appliance in cool colors




    Why not an in-car dvd-nav system with Apple style...
  • Reply 12 of 18
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Why doesn't Apple make road maps for women?
  • Reply 13 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    didn't we discuss the gps thing in another thread or the apple needs to make some... also in another thread.



    Also if you need a roadmap for a women than Apple surely can't help you.



    For that try "conversation"



    Back to the thread..



    My original posit is still out there....



    what are the technical challenges (I don't know)



    Would such a portable device for a low price point survive against a low end dell all the while allowing for the high margins and usefulness of apple products.



    If the next imac is a pizza box on the back of a monitor then would it stand to follow that that unit is to remain fixed and other units around the house complement it?



    If there is an airport express in many of those rooms then, why not have the little appliances running apps off of the main unit?
  • Reply 14 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    didn't we discuss the gps thing in another thread or the apple needs to make some... also in another thread.



    Also if you need a roadmap for a women than Apple surely can't help you.



    For that try "conversation"



    Back to the thread..



    My original posit is still out there....



    what are the technical challenges (I don't know)



    Would such a portable device for a low price point survive against a low end dell all the while allowing for the high margins and usefulness of apple products.



    If the next imac is a pizza box on the back of a monitor then would it stand to follow that that unit is to remain fixed and other units around the house complement it?



    If there is an airport express in many of those rooms then, why not have the little appliances running apps off of the main unit?




    Honestly there are no technical challenges. The devices you describe are do-able with current technology/software. The drawback is pricing them to sell against low end machines that are out there now. I don't think that Apple or any company could develop and sell one for enough below the cost of a low end desktop/laptop to make them a compelling value.
  • Reply 15 of 18
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Why doesn't Apple make road maps for women?



    a womans map? whats the diff? are shoe stores landmarks on this new map?
  • Reply 16 of 18
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bancho

    Honestly there are no technical challenges. The devices you describe are do-able with current technology/software. The drawback is pricing them to sell against low end machines that are out there now. I don't think that Apple or any company could develop and sell one for enough below the cost of a low end desktop/laptop to make them a compelling value.





    Interesting, thanks.



    So what we are waiting for is the price point to be reached. When do you think that this will happen?



    Is it around the time of Tiger? 2nd half of next year.... or later



    just trying to polish my crystal ball.
  • Reply 17 of 18
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    Interesting, thanks.



    So what we are waiting for is the price point to be reached. When do you think that this will happen?



    Is it around the time of Tiger? 2nd half of next year.... or later



    just trying to polish my crystal ball.




    Hmm, to be honest I do not think the price will *ever* be reached to justify a crippled device. That is part of what has confounded it all this time. Someone will develop and hype it then someone else says "yes, but I can get this fully featured machine for just $ more". Even Apple machines have come down a good deal in price compared to what they were in years past. iBooks are great values and the discontinues/refurbs sell very robustly at prices where you used to never be able to touch a portable Mac.



    I firmly believe if Apple does market such a device it should be aimed at schools and business where the environment is more controlled to take full advantage of these devices.



    Hmm, one last point I just considered and maybe the most damning. The devices could *only* hold any appeal to someone who already owns a Mac. There is no draw like th iPod, iBook or PowerBooks have to people who don't own a mac already. This is the sort of thing you would tack on your order as you are checking out from the Apple store.
  • Reply 18 of 18
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bancho

    Hmm, to be honest I do not think the price will *ever* be reached to justify a crippled device. That is part of what has confounded it all this time. Someone will develop and hype it then someone else says "yes, but I can get this fully featured machine for just $ more".



    And this is because by the time you've paid for the LCD panel, the backlight, the motherboard, and the case, you've already paid about 80% of the cost of an autonomous computer. Hard drives are cheap. Opticals are cheap. A more powerful CPU doesn't cost that much more, nor does a laptop GPU. So even in the best case, you're talking about a fairly negligible difference in cost for a significant change in capability. The parts that create that difference just don't cost that much, and that's always been the problem with network clients.



    The other problem is that even with 802.11g (AirPort Extreme) access to files and applications over the network is noticeably slower and laggier, and performance will drop dramatically when someone decides to microwave popcorn. That's just the state of home networking right now.
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