Nomar traded to Cubs
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1849988
I'm so upset with this, the Red Sox got sub-par players for a Hall of Famer. I don't care if Nomar was going to sign elsewhere at the end of the year, I'd rather have Nomar through October than these guys......
I'm so upset with this, the Red Sox got sub-par players for a Hall of Famer. I don't care if Nomar was going to sign elsewhere at the end of the year, I'd rather have Nomar through October than these guys......
Comments
Don't discount Cabrera too quickly. He's a young cheap SS who is better than Nomar defensively. He won't hit with the pop that Nomar did but once you factor in the ballparks I think he would have had a pretty similar OPS+ to that twitchy wristslapper. I expect his offensive numbers to go up a lot with the guys he'll have around him instead of the abyss he was in in Montreal.
Still, with all of the Red Sox's free agents I would have saved him cause it has got to be this year that they make a run if it is to be with this team. Plus, then you get mad first round supplemental draft picks as compensation once he leaves as a free agent.
From one cursed team to another.
Garciaparra a hall of famer? NO. The Red Sox have to look to the future, always. They needed to make a trade happen and get something for him now rather than NOTHING for him later.
But yes, the Cubs did make out like bandits in this trade. It could be too little too late though. They're scruffing with 3 teams in the NL West and 2 teams in the NL East for a wild card spot... Heck, they've still got Cincinnati, Houston, Milwaukee AND Pittsburgh to worry about.
Mientkiewicz is the best defensive 1B in the American League.
Yeah he is good defensively but he's also on pace to hit .246 with 9 HRs for the season at probably the second most offense oriented position on the field. Those are atrocious numbers for a 1B. Moreover, while he is a bit better lifetime, he still only has a career .275 average and has never hit more than 15 jacks. He's at best a mediocre major league 1B. Check out where he ranks in OPS for all qualified MLB 1B:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/by...fied=1&sort=25
Dead Last.
This way Ortiz gets to DH like he was destined to and Millar gets to play in right field while Trot Nixon is on the DL.
That's fine. Even then though you've swapped out Nomar's bat for Cabrera's for a defensive upgrade at two spots. Probably no better than a slight overall downgrade for the Red Sox.
Where do you put Millar once Nixon is back? Back at 1B? Then Mientkiewicz is pretty close to useless. Yeah you could leave Mientkiewicz in but then you just dropped 50 points off of your starting 1B's average along with a bit of power.
At that point you've replaced Nomar's and Millar's bats with Cabrera's and Mientkiewicz's. Or Nixon's or Ortiz's if Millar gives them a day off. Definitely a net loss even factoring in the defense.
Garciaparra a hall of famer? NO
You have to be kidding me. Garciaparra's a SS hitting .320 career with 200 or so HRs. Even in this supposed golden age for SS, with ARod now at 3B, Garciaparra compares quite well. Better OPS last year than Jeter, Tejada, etc. Yes Fenway helps and yes he blows donkey testicles defensively but few SS ever have the combination of avg and power that he has. Banks. ARod. That's about it. If he finishes with five more similar seasons to his career avg that will put him over 300 HR with a .300 avg. That's an obvious HOF career. If he keeps up his career numbers for a reasonable period of time he will be a clear HOF.
They needed to make a trade happen and get something for him now rather than NOTHING for him later.
That's part of it. But they also downgraded their team for this year overall.
They also passed up the signing teams' 1st rounder and probably 3 other supplemental 1st rounders which they would have received as FA compensation for someone else signing a top player like Garciaparra.
Is Mientkiewicz a free agent at the end of the year? 98 was his first year which makes him free agent eligible after 2004 unless the Twinkies bought him out of one of his FA years during his Arbitration years.
What about Cabrera? He's also past his arbitration years. How long does his contract run for?
this is very sad. One thing I always liked about the Red Sox is that the players always looked like Red Sox. They looked Boston. For the most part at least. Nomar was Boston. I don't care what happens....you don't trade away your franchise player. This is like the Yankees trading Jeter or Mattingly. They are the Yankees and Nomar was the Red Sox.
I hope this comes back to bite them in the ass big time.....actually, I'm pretty sure it will.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
You have to be kidding me. Garciaparra's a SS hitting .320 career with 200 or so HRs. Even in this supposed golden age for SS, with ARod now at 3B, Garciaparra compares quite well. Better OPS last year than Jeter, Tejada, etc. Yes Fenway helps and yes he blows donkey testicles defensively but few SS ever have the combination of avg and power that he has. Banks. ARod. That's about it. If he finishes with five more similar seasons to his career avg that will put him over 300 HR with a .300 avg. That's an obvious HOF career. If he keeps up his career numbers for a reasonable period of time he will be a clear HOF.
That's what I mean though. He's not yet a clear famer even if he does look like he's on his way. He's what...30? I don't think he has defined himself like A-Rod has at all. Jeter's could make the HoF with a ton of help from his rings and his likability, but based on his stats alone, it's still not a sure thing. I mean is Jeff Kent going to be in the HoF? Is Biggio? What about Barry Larkin and Robbie Alomar? What IF Garciaparra's stats for the next 5 years drop off the face of the planet just like Alomar's?
I think a lot of our current HoF expectations of players are based arounf deadball 70s where you could hit .270 and 20 HR year after year and still slot easily into the HoF as a middle infielder.
And don't forget the glut of middle infielders just making their way into the majors. Bobby Crosby, Khalil Greene, etc. We really have no idea what our expectations will be when Nomar does find his name on the ballot.
Is Mientkiewicz a free agent at the end of the year? 98 was his first year which makes him free agent eligible after 2004 unless the Twinkies bought him out of one of his FA years during his Arbitration years.
His contract is through 2005.
What about Cabrera? He's also past his arbitration years. How long does his contract run for?
I believe Cabrera is a free agent at season's end.
and another thing....people talk shit about Clemens and hate his guts but an even bigger douche bag is Curt Schilling
Nope, still think it's Clemens, especially after you backed up that assertion with SO MUCH good information. Remember the NY Post this year? What an ASS-TRO?
The truth is, I agree with you that the Red Sox shouldn't have traded Nomar. He was their franchise player and I thought that they should have paid him whatever they had to so he would stay in Boston. What happened was that the local media decided to start playing up an angle that Nomar was angry at Red Sox Management for trying to trade him last off season and that he wouldn't re-sign. The radio guys from 850 AM in Boston (known by fans as "the nitwits") have been pushing for Nomar to be traded for a long time now as it increases their radio ratings.
If you say these things long enough, people believe that they need to happen or will happen, mainly that Nomar needed to be traded so we didn't end up losing him and getting nothing in return. Well, we got nothing in return AND we gave up:
Nomar for the rest of the year and any chance of signing him
One of our only pitching prospects (one that isn't blind in one eye even)
Cash
Everyone else wins from this deal, the Red Sox are a worse team because of it. The only pitcher really having major issues this year as a result of the poor infield was Derek Lowe and I think that if there was anyone that needed to go, it was Lowe. But instead of dealing Lowe (who is a free agent at the end of the year as well), they dealed Nomar to get players that could back up Lowe. Talk about twisted logic....
Originally posted by Fran441
Nope, still think it's Clemens, especially after you backed up that assertion with SO MUCH good information. Remember the NY Post this year? What an ASS-TRO?
i have no idea what you're talking about
Schilling is an ass. He's certainly not helping your team. He's a divider and pompous. He doesn't know the limits of his role and is not a favorite amongst teammates and other players. The Red Sox don't seem to understand the word "team". With their hands off manager and their squad of egos I don't think they'll ever be able to pull together when they need to and win.
I don't think he has defined himself like A-Rod has at all.
Well comparing to ARod is a losing proposition since ARod is kind of on another planet. Much as I hate him for being such a little bitch, he's really a player with no other peer in the last 50 years at the least. He started playing at a very high level at an extremely young age, he plays SS (or can) and actually has become very very good at it, he hits for average, he hits for power etc.
Jeter's could make the HoF with a ton of help from his rings and his likability, but based on his stats alone, it's still not a sure thing.
I think Jeter will get in because he is a Yankee, has won so many rings, is seen as a clutch player, is seen as a good guy and leader and he has been one of the constants (along with Rivera and B. Williams) through all the years the Yankees have been making the playoffs over the last decade. I don't really think he should get in though.
I mean is Jeff Kent going to be in the HoF?
No. He should be banned from baseball for life like Pete Rose for trying to pull that "I was washing my truck" bullshit.
I'd have to look at his stats some more. I think he is probably a no but I'm not sure.
Is Biggio?
Maybe should be but he won't make it or even be close. Not viewed by enough people as an excellent player. Maybe the Veterans committee lets him in in 2032.
What about Barry Larkin and Robbie Alomar?
Larkin is a no brainer. He went to Michigan so he has to get in. He's pretty close. An MVP and a world championship work in his favor. Long long career.
Alomar is in to me. 2B is maybe the weakest position historically for the HOF and Alomar was very good for a long time even if he has sucked for the last five years.
What IF Garciaparra's stats for the next 5 years drop off the face of the planet just like Alomar's?
Yeah then he would not make it. But since he is on pace to be a HOF, I would answer the question differently than you did.
I think a lot of our current HoF expectations of players are based arounf deadball 70s where you could hit .270 and 20 HR year after year and still slot easily into the HoF as a middle infielder.
It's not just the 70s. Except Ernie Banks, and maybe Hornsby just because of his sick avg numbers, the middle infield spots have always been about longevity and then defense. Power was not a factor and avg was not as emphasized as much as it could be. Personally I think they've let some questionable guys in like Mazeroski and Fox and Rizzuto but then I'm not on the Veterans Committee.
But I don't think that hurts this generation which Nomar is in. The way HOF voters tend to compare is with others already in and with others of that generation. Aside from ARod, Nomar compares fine with his generation to date. And when these guys come up for the HOF, the list of guys already in the HOF is still going to be similar guys to those in now. Add in Larkin or Biggio or whatever and Nomar et al don't really hurt in the comparison. Not huge guys who are big hitters.
The guys who are going to be hurt by changing standards IMO are the next generation. Crosby or Greene or whomever it might be. Cause by then Nomar and Arod and Tejada and Jeter may be in the HOF and so when say Crosby comes up for election hypothetically, it will be seen as a sort of newer standard that a HOF middle IF hits 300 homers as Arod and Tejada and Garciaparra will have possibly done by then.
And don't forget the glut of middle infielders just making their way into the majors. Bobby Crosby, Khalil Greene, etc. We really have no idea what our expectations will be when Nomar does find his name on the ballot.
Several of the factors which led to a more offensive era, expansion, smaller ballparks etc are not going to change. MLB won't be expanding for another decade and this cycle of building parks and smaller parks at that is over. The weightlifting stuff is factored in now and that won't change that much. Unless you see some weird stuff going on with steroids or genetics than I can't see much significant change in the foreseeable future as far as the game becoming even more offense oriented statistically. But we shall see.