New Quicksilver not Selling
One of the best local Apple retailer in Causeway Bay Hong Kong in which I talk to has given very negative impression on the new Quicksilver. He told me not only does it look ugly but minimal performance gain especially of DP 1GHZ continues to steer customers away. Instead old Quicksilver SP 933 and DP 1 GHZ are selling well, Because of better pricing, but also on par performance compared to the new Dual 1GHZ. So I wonder how other countries are doing? We have don't have any Apple Stores here? But how about in U,S, Japan and Europe? Anything to share, guys
Comments
Simple fact: the MPX architecture is not built to perform at the level Power Mac users require - not anymore. It worked out OK with the older G4 systems because the chips were not fast enough to force the kind of bottlenecks we've been seeing since the introduction of QuickSilver.
The bottom line: until Apple introduces a Power Mac with a desktop-driven architecture, Power Mac sales will languish. We have reached the point where faster and faster processors will not - as a rule - get us faster performance when run on MPX. Why? Because MPX was not designed with desktop workstations in mind.
It's designed to provide maximum flexibility for Motorola's embedded systems customers. And based on what I've read, that's the way they WANT IT. MPX is not going to be replaced anytime soon, because the vast majority of companies who use it like it just the way it is.
So, if Apple wants the towers to sell for the duration of their production run, they had better find a way to put a true desktop-oriented architecture inside. Doesn't matter who designs it or who fabricates it - only that it happens. Extra CPU MHz isn't doing us any good on MPX at this point. Truth hurts, Apple.
*shrug* I got nothing but time and a sore back from sitting on my wallet all these months.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
I never said anything about Apple being "clueless" or unaware of these problems. Obviously they know. Obviously they should be trying to remedy the situation.
All I'm suggesting is, as long as we the users are offered MPX-based Power Macs, things will not get significantly better. I'm further suggesting unless Apple has designed a new PM architecture and has contracted the fabrication (or unless they do this at some point), all we have is MPX.
Draw your own conclusions.
When Apple can deliver a FSB that matches the DDR memory bus, then I will buy the significant engineering advancement. Like the man said above,
"Where's the Beef?"
BTW, I love the box because you can put 2 opticals inside and it has 3 ATA buses. But they aren't all 133 ATA like they should be by now (or at least both HD buses). I'll skip my rant on what else is obviously missing. You know the drill. This is marginal improvement inside a much improved box.
Let's hope they finally get it right in the next refresh. This waiting for the right refresh is getting pretty old. Apple seems to be clueless in the marketing department. I'll bet their engineering department is hogtied by that lousy marketing department. Those engineers must be going crazy with frustration.
Would love to read a book about this era in 5 years. I hope Steve Jobs will someday write a tell-all autobiography. I hope he's writing a diary of each day's details. It's a story probably worthy of a major motion picture or even a 10 hour mini-series. The political battles going on inside Apple, Motorola and IBM right now must be amazing.
Wish they'd let US in on the debates.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Multimedia ]</p>
Seriously. All this is expected, especially in Hong Kong, which has never been a huge Apple market. All of Asia other than Japan = PC heaven.
As for my purchase plans, I was an early adopted two purchases in a row. My DP 1 GHz broke that cycle. I don't plan on buying a new computer until the rev. 2 Power Macs based on a brand new chip are introduced.
<strong>When Apple can deliver a FSB that matches the DDR memory bus, then I will buy the significant engineering advancement.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This has already been pointed out a few times, but I'll say it again: The current G4 does not support anything faster than 167MHz SDR FSB. The FSB is Motorola's responsability. It doesn't matter if Apple's system controller supports a 167MHz DDR FSB (which it probably already does) as long as the CPU is bottlenecked by its slower FSB.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Analogue bubblebath ]</p>
I know it's Motorola's fault. I'm just saying that Apple should do whatever it takes to get a processor ANY PROCESSOR that will support the entire speed boost to the 333MHz DDR level as long as it processes instructions faster than the current G4 1.25 GHz. I don't care if it's a Pentium 4 AMD ? whatever. I hope it's the new 8X capable IBM chip that is coming up.
I think the new machines will sell fine.
In spite of DDR hack, fan noise, yadda yadda, ...
MSKR
Precisely. I'm doing the same thing. It's time. They may not have PC bragging rights, but the new machines will be fast, and at a better price point than the last stopgap update.
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I Ordered It but Am Still Waiting in Nashville
The problem is Apple's update cycle for each model is often a case of too little, too far between.
Analysis:
These models will sell well untill the first 1.25 Ghz machines start shipping. They'll sell well for a month after that, and will rapidly go flat in 2-3 weeks after most of the people who wanted DP 1.25's get their machines.
4-6 weeks to arrive.
4 weeks of strong selling
2-3 weeks to tail off
In 3 months all the same complaints will surface again.
The iMac FP's sales went flat in very short order. That time they forced people to buy the most expensive model if they wanted one right away. This time, people who want the fastest model will have to wait. Sales may stretch a little, but if it isn't updated soon, they're gonna start unwittingly stock-piling portal-macs.
Yeah, thats great. I want to see Apple fail too.
This will last for about a month (and may start up again for a few weeks when the 1.25's come out).
Let's revisit this topic in November, December and January (and beyond, should there be no update at MWSF). These things are not going to sell well, period. It's a good thing actually - it shows that the Mac user base is becoming more educated about the systems it buys, and more descriminating in general about how they spend their money.
Apple will be forced to take notice: this makes two lousy selling upgrades in a row (and during a shit economy). In the end, this will mean better products down the road for us. Stealth upgrades will become less prevalent, one would think.
The DP 1Ghz replaces the SP933. Against that machine it is an improvement in every sense. 2 (slightly) faster CPU's, faster bus, better case, DDR (even if it only benefits system I/O) and the same amount of L3 cache (though it's split between 2 CPU's)
It's a good upgrade 'for now' but in 2 months it will face similar freshness problems.
Machines need to be updated more often, every 3-4 months in order to stay close. Bigger bumps would also help keep people interested for longer, as it is, machines too quickly fall too far behind.
[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
<strong>You should compare price points, not model similarities.
The DP 1Ghz replaces the SP933. Against that machine it is an improvement in every sense. 2 (slightly) faster CPU's, faster bus, better case, DDR (even if it only benefits system I/O) and the same amount of L3 cache (though it's split between 2 CPU's)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is an excellent point. Comparing the previous DP1ghz versus the new one is comparing a $2999 machine (previous) to a $2499 machine (new). Even if the performance didn't increase much in the new machine, the $500 price drop makes these new Powermacs a nice improvement over the old ones.
Having said that, the old dual ghz machines are looking like a sweet deal at $2199 closeout price right now.