Dual-layer DVD drives

brussellbrussell
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I've noticed that there are a number of dual-layer DVD drives out there now. For example, there's this Lacie drive: Firewire, Dual layer (8.5 Gb), DVD+RW and DVD-RW, CD burner of course, good speeds, looks like it sells for $170 if I'm looking at the right one.



Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about using these? It seems like a great deal if you don't mind an external drive. But there are some issues that I'm wondering about:



Would video play in DVD players like normal?

What about media - a lot more expensive? I couldn't find any dual layer media on Amazon's blank media section.

What about compatibility with other DVD drives? I assume they won't be readable in most computer DVD drives - is that right?



I'd love to be able to back up some of the DVDs I own so they don't get scratched up. I assume this will work without having to compress them any more. Anyone have any experience with that?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 8
    freakyfreakfreakyfreak Posts: 22member
    I don't think you can play a disc you make with the Dual-Layer recorder on a regular DVD player unless it specifically says that it is able to do so. This is because the laser is not capable of going through the first layer and reading the second(I'm not poistive about this). Best Buy does have Dual-Layer(DL) media. It's not that much mroe expensive.



    Also remember that if you are planning on using this recorder with iDVD, it won't work. iDvd does not yet work with external DVD recorders.
  • Reply 2 of 8
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    The product on the LaCie.com page is a d2 16x DVD±R, 4x DVD±RW, and 4x DVD+R DL drive. The MacMall link is to the F.A. Porsche enclosure 8x DVD±R, 4x DVD±RW, 4x DVD+R DL. i don't know about the F.A. Porsche burner, but the d2 model is definitely based on the Pioneer DVR-108 internal drive.



    That drive sells for $86 bare at NewEgg.com. You could probably find a decent FireWire 800 enclosure for <$100 too. The d2 enclosure is FireWire 400 or FireWire 400/USB 2.0 only. Note the version with a USB 2.0 is cheaper, but the the bridge circuitry is probably not as good.



    I have a DVR-108 in an ADS Pyro 1394b (FireWire 400) case because I found I couldn't burn DVDs above an equivalent of 8x with my older ADS Pyro 1394a case which uses the Oxford 911 chipset. If you don't want to put together your own external drive, just get the d2, but make sure you time your 12x and 16x burns in Toast. If the burn doesn't complete in 7 minutes and you know your computer is otherwise idle and it has a fast HDD, then return it and claim false advertising. Longer than ~7 minutes, and the FireWire connection isn't feeding the drive fast enough.



    I should also note that burning at 12x and 16x is a very temperamental game. So far only the best media burns acceptably at 12x and virtually no media comes out readable at 16x. In fact with the 16x write strategy Pioneer uses, it's not even faster than 12x anyway.



    DVD+R DL media is tough to find and very expensive. At $10-15 a pop for Verbatim branded discs, it wouldn't be economical to *ahem* back-up your movies. Otherwise I've found the Verbatim DVD+R DL media to play without a hitch in all my DVD players except older Mac DVD-ROM drives that don't seem to read ANY DVD+R media.



    In order to back-up your DVDs, all you would need to do is strip the encryption/copy-protection from the movie disc with an app like MacTheRipper and copy the VIDEO_TS folder onto a DVD-ROM (UDF) formatted disc. Like I pointed out, at $15 a disc, it makes more sense just to buy a second stamped version of the movie. Most movies come on more than one DVD too.
  • Reply 3 of 8
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by freakyfreak

    I don't think you can play a disc you make with the Dual-Layer recorder on a regular DVD player unless it specifically says that it is able to do so. This is because the laser is not capable of going through the first layer and reading the second(I'm not poistive about this).



    Right, so most computer DVD drives won't read/play them. But I would hope that home stand-alone DVD players for TVs would play them, since they play commercial dual-layer DVDs just fine.
  • Reply 4 of 8
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    Right, so most computer DVD drives won't read/play them. But I would hope that home stand-alone DVD players for TVs would play them, since they play commercial dual-layer DVDs just fine.



    Huh?? Any DVD-ROM drive most certainly can read dual-layer DVDs. Almost all DVD movies come on dual layer discs, and I doubt you've ever had trouble viewing them on a computer, right?



    If your drive can read most DVD+R, it should be able to read DVD+R DL without any problem. The reflectivity of the second layer is the same as the first layer. It's perhaps even more likely that a DVD-ROM drive could read a DVD+R DL burned in the Pioneer drive than a straight single layer DVD+R. The Pioneer drive sets the booktype of the media to "DVD-ROM" instead of the "DVD+R" for better compatibility.



    EDIT: I just tested this on all the Macs in my house and the ones that can't read most DVD+R single-layer media can read the DVD+R DL media just fine.
  • Reply 5 of 8
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    Huh?? Any DVD-ROM drive most certainly can read dual-layer DVDs. Almost all DVD movies come on dual layer discs, and I doubt you've ever had trouble viewing them on a computer, right?



    If your drive can read most DVD+R, it should be able to read DVD+R DL without any problem. The reflectivity of the second layer is the same as the first layer. It's perhaps even more likely that a DVD-ROM drive could read a DVD+R DL burned in the Pioneer drive than a straight single layer DVD+R. The Pioneer drive sets the booktype of the media to "DVD-ROM" instead of the "DVD+R" for better compatibility.



    EDIT: I just tested this on all the Macs in my house and the ones that can't read most DVD+R single-layer media can read the DVD+R DL media just fine.



    Oh yeah, that makes sense.
  • Reply 6 of 8
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    I have a DVR-108 in an ADS Pyro 1394b (FireWire 400) case because I found I couldn't burn DVDs above an equivalent of 8x with my older ADS Pyro 1394a case which uses the Oxford 911 chipset. If you don't want to put together your own external drive, just get the d2, but make sure you time your 12x and 16x burns in Toast. If the burn doesn't complete in 7 minutes and you know your computer is otherwise idle and it has a fast HDD, then return it and claim false advertising. Longer than ~7 minutes, and the FireWire connection isn't feeding the drive fast enough.



    I should also note that burning at 12x and 16x is a very temperamental game. So far only the best media burns acceptably at 12x and virtually no media comes out readable at 16x. In fact with the 16x write strategy Pioneer uses, it's not even faster than 12x anyway.



    I've read that a dual layer drive doesn't really burn at its indicated rate - that only the first layer burns at that rate and the second layer burns slower, or something like that.



    Quote:

    DVD+R DL media is tough to find and very expensive. At $10-15 a pop for Verbatim branded discs, it wouldn't be economical to *ahem* back-up your movies. Otherwise I've found the Verbatim DVD+R DL media to play without a hitch in all my DVD players except older Mac DVD-ROM drives that don't seem to read ANY DVD+R media.



    In order to back-up your DVDs, all you would need to do is strip the encryption/copy-protection from the movie disc with an app like MacTheRipper and copy the VIDEO_TS folder onto a DVD-ROM (UDF) formatted disc. Like I pointed out, at $15 a disc, it makes more sense just to buy a second stamped version of the movie. Most movies come on more than one DVD too.



    Yeah that's not exactly cost-effective if they're $10+ per blank disc.
  • Reply 7 of 8
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    I've read that a dual layer drive doesn't really burn at its indicated rate - that only the first layer burns at that rate and the second layer burns slower, or something like that.



    Yeah that's not exactly cost-effective if they're $10+ per blank disc.



    Nope, the second layer burns at the same rate. 2.4x media Verbatim DVD+R DL media at 4x if you want. Since the optic qualites of both layers in a DVD+R DL are the same, there wouldn't be any slowdown on the second layer. Even the oversped 4x burns on the 2.4x Verbatim media are impeccable.



    I don't imagine DVD+R DL discs ever being that cost effective. The MPAA wouldn't allow it...
  • Reply 8 of 8
    unfilteredunfiltered Posts: 49member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    Nope, the second layer burns at the same rate. 2.4x media Verbatim DVD+R DL media at 4x if you want. Since the optic qualites of both layers in a DVD+R DL are the same, there wouldn't be any slowdown on the second layer. Even the oversped 4x burns on the 2.4x Verbatim media are impeccable.



    I don't imagine DVD+R DL discs ever being that cost effective. The MPAA wouldn't allow it...



    But with the way DVD media and drives have dropped since their consumer availability, I wouldn't be surprised to see the prices of DL media drop as well in the next 8-10 months.



    When they get down to $3-4 each via a bulk spindle purchase, it's worth it to "backup" certain boxsets and movies that are in moratorium.
Sign In or Register to comment.