Standard Windows to Mac Switcher Topic

wicked

After at least 8 years of having only one or more working PC computers (running Windows '95 to 'XP inclusively) I have decided that a world with Mac OS X may be the future. I won't enlighten you with all the detailed reasons because that's clearly a waste of time and effort, but rest assure it's just standard Windows anger, ranging from spyware and viruses to instability and system defects.



I was originally going to ask you great looking lot for some support on Mac OS X alternatives for my favorite Windows programs but the list has become fairly extensive. I know some are sure fire hits but others I really don't know about.



So I'm going to ask an entirely new and even more stupid question instead. How is 'emulating' Windows on a Mac's hardware?



A lot of my work takes place on Windows now, and while I'm sure there are many suitable and probably better alternatives I just don't know for certain applications. I'm a studying computer programmer and use Visual Basic 6, Visual C++ and many other components from the great Visual Studio 6.0 Edition software. The rules at my univertsity (which has PCs all round) really just state that as long as your projects work in the uni labs they don't mind any other compatibility issues.



I also have friends around frequently to play games, share files and just generally catch up in a computery environment (and sometimes I pop over to other houses). The thought of me sitting with an iMac G5 in front of me, quiet as hell and as sophisticated as the best looking guy in the club, never fails to put a smile on my face. But how would networking be if I could no longer find Mac OS X alternatives to DC++, mIRC and the latest versions of Messenger, to name a few?



So as a result of all these feelings I think a great looking new iMac is the way to go for most of my usage, but when it comes to real compatibility I would honestly love Windows installed as something I can log into and reap its small (and purely existent due to mainstream success) range of benefits.



What I really want to know is, can you provide me with any details on how this works? I'm interested to see things like, can I network (and surf the Internet) using this mode? Will there be any problems with compatibility with Windows applications? And am I just returning to what I'm running away from (the dreaded security problems and faults of Windows XP).



Any help is hugely appreciated. I recall in school (2000-ish) the iMacs had Windows as a possibility to use, (mainly for those using Visual Studio). I'm therefore assuming something similar is still possible. If not please let me know! If there are options by all means I would love to discuss this with someone or find out more information.



Thanks again, Edward.

future-ex-pc-user

For programming simply take a look at XCode, it's free and I think it also has C++.

As for your emultaion questions:

Emulation is slow and you should at least wait until someone posts reviews of Virtual PC 7, as this is the only version of VPC that works on a G5. I'm using VPC 6 on a 867MHz G4 and it is usable, so just wait a week or so.

Games won't be playable on Virtual PC unless you are talking about old games (especially 2D ones).

Windows won't be more secure if you emulate it, but restoring it is a lot easier, since you can simply burn you Windows disk image to DVD and have it working again in 15min if something goes wrong. You won't loose data on you Mac if Windows f**** up.

DC++ and mIRC exist on the Mac, Microsofts Messenger is crippled, but you can tell your friends to switch to AIM or a Mac ;-).

I think there are only compatibility issues with applications that depend on specific Windows only Hardware, but I haven't had any problem.

By the way, I have switched over a year ago, and I would NEVER go back. Even so, I do sometimes use Windows (AutoCAD, SolidWorks), since computers are nothing else than tools, and you should allways use the tools that are best for your needs.

I would look around for alternatives to Windows apps if I were you, you will be surprised how much better Software you will find for your Mac.

Just post a list of apps or search the forum.

Good luck

wicked

Hi,



Great! Thanks a lot for the reply. Yeah, I actually just came across Virtual PC not long ago. It looks great. The new version (7) seems to add some great new features like docking in the Mac tray and improved speed. But yeah I think I will wait around for some reviews before I go jumping in.



Just to get the facts straight, Virtual PC is basically only a windowed version of Windows, right? I mean does it actually install an operating system or is it closer to installing a program on your Mac. In any case, could you simply use Windows almost entirely as normal (without the extra power for games)? I'm thinking, say I needed to install drivers for a scanner suitable only for Win XP, would that be a problem? Or if I wanted to install any old setup.exe and run it on VPC, there wouldn't be any problems would there?



Haha I am totally with you man. And I've really started getting over my utter fear of Macs. I had this poor misconception that my life would horribly change so drastically and that nothing would be compatible ever again in a Mac environment. Every Google search I do seems to go a little bit further in proving that Mac OS X really does account for most anything you want to do on your PC - sometimes in a much better manner.



Obviously there are certain things that don't quite match up, but for me at least they seem to be fairly small. On this note, (and yeah I probably could try to convert them to Macs or AIM!! ) but do you think I could run Virtual PC with the latest version of Messenger (6.2 and future) and just sit it to the side? That would give us all the features of MSN Messenger (display pictures, games, etc.). Cause yes, from what I've heard MSN is a bit crippled in its 4.0 Mac version. In essence what I'm asking is, does Microsoft only allow "this list" of programs be installed on Virtual PC's emulation of XP, or is it completely unrestricted and really DOES emulate XP in its entirety.



Thanks once MORE for your time!!

skipjack

Quote:

Originally posted by WickEd

does ... VPC ... actually install an operating system or is it closer to installing a program on your Mac.

The short answer is that it is installing a program. Once you install the program, then you have to install the operating system. That is, you install VPC. Then you have a choice of installing either one or many of DOS, Linux, or a number of versions of Windows. Most people find Windows 2000 to be the fastest with VPC 6.

k squared

My understanding is that VPC emulates the processor, not the operating system. That's why you have your choice of Windows.



My advice, if you go the VPC route, is to get the fastest Mac you can afford and at least a gig of RAM. I have used VPC, running Windows 2000, to use AutoCad on a PowerBook. It was not fun at all. My experience has led me to this: if you need to run programs only available on a PC, then use a PC. It really is that simple. Otherwise, invest in new applications that are cross platform.

sport73

If you have access to a PC, or can even borrow the use of one from a friend or co-worker, don't discount the use of REMOTE DESKTOP (built into Windows XP Pro and Win2000 Pro). It's a perfect way to get Windows on a Mac (you don't have to use the other machine, just log in remotely when you need PC access.).



It's a great way to stay at home in the beauty of OSX but still use WINBLOWS when required (though I find there are far fewer requirements than you might expect)...

towel

Like k_squared said, VPC emulates an x86 processor. It creates a virtual machine, a sandbox, into which you can install any x86 operating system. If you install Windows, you use a regular copy, same as you would put on a PC. The only difference is that it's running in a sandbox - you install it into a disk image, rather than onto a partition, and it can't directly touch any other part of your hardware or system. For that reason, even though your VPC Windows is still vulnerable to every hazard that your PC is (viruses, trojans, spyware, etc.), you can let Windows get completely hosed without it affecting any other part of your Mac. If Windows ever blue-screens, you just reboot it within the sandbox - it doesn't affect the work you're doing in the Mac environment one bit. Make a backup copy of the disk image, and just do a 5-second delete-and-restore of the image if Windows goes completely belly up. In that sense, it can a better experience than running Windows on a PC.



However, sicne it's a fully emulated environment, and you have to run a full copy of Windows in order to run any Windows app, it's a horrible resource hog. My only experience with it was running Win95 on a 300MHz Mac about six years back, and it was painful. I'm sure XP on a G5 will be much more responsive, but it's not something you'll want to be running the background the whole time you use your computer. Also, although you can run VPC in either windowed or full-screen mode, individual Windows apps have to run in the VPC window. You can't have MSNMessenger, for example, running in its own window, as if it were a native Mac app. I guess you can try to make it look better by maximizing MSNM and then shrinking the VPC window so only that one shows, but then you can't see any other Windows app you might have running. VPC creates a self-contained sandbox in which Windows can run; it doesn't let you run Windows programs on OSX as if they were native.



Still, VPC is a nice crutch that will help get you "over the hump" and into a Mac environment. You'll use it a fair bit at first, then gradually realize that there are OSX apps that let you get done everything you need to get done. I'd predict that within six months you'll delete it from your hard drive. Any major app that doesn't have a Mac equivalent, you'll fire up your old PC on the rare occasion you need it, or maybe use Remote Desktop. Everything else you'll find a way to do on the Mac, usually better.

wicked

Wow!



Guys, thanks a lot for the info and opinions. That's great.



I think Towel hit the nail on the head when he said VPC is really just best at getting me across the little mountain, so thanks for bringing this glaringly obvious piece of information to my attention.



k squared, yeah I have read a lot of information on VPC being painfully slow. I mean even Microsoft themselves mentions the lacking speed in previous versions, so that really can't signify a lot.



Sport73, I will have to look into Remote Desktop. My sister has no problems with the PC so she is basically taking over that. I'm not sure how it works, (haven't heard of it) but I'll do some searching around for information.



Towel, ah ok, interesting. So VPC doesn't actually have Windows on the disc? The software is only a virtual machine, and then you use your separate Windows XP/2000/whatever CD and go from there? Or would there be different versions? Windows itself would take a truckload of processing power I can imagine, is this affected significantly by the amount of programs you have running in it? In other words, could you get away with running a processor light program like Messenger and hope that the Virtual PC doesn't use too much power? Or is it just Windows on its own that's really going to depict this huge processing power usage?



Very cool how you explained Windows sits completely separate from Mac OS. So absolutely screwing the 'sandbox' Windows around isn't going to have any impact beyond the perimeter of this Windows virtual machine? That's great. Even something fatal like MSBlast or any number of other potentially file destroying viruses would have no effect on Mac OS?



Sorry for the questions, but I seem to be having trouble finding reviews on VPC that are remotely in depth (and even more so on these later versions of VPC, including 7, which I am assuming is because it's so recently released).



As mentioned though, and you all seem to share this philosophy, VPC is really only ideal for crossing the gap from Windows to Mac OS, so all this becomes slightly more trivial in the bigger picture! (Still, depending on how long I take to adapt I might be using VPC for a fair few months.)

bunge

The Mac OS is safe from any Windows vulnerability. The damage would all be done "inside" VPC.

k squared

Quote:

Originally posted by WickEd





Towel, ah ok, interesting. So VPC doesn't actually have Windows on the disc? The software is only a virtual machine, and then you use your separate Windows XP/2000/whatever CD and go from there? Or would there be different versions?

Correct. You should be able to buy versions which include XP or 2000, Home or Professional. If you already have a copy of Windows, you could also just buy the version without an operating system.

gon

Your situation is pretty close to mine. I got a Powerbook a few months ago, coming from Windows/Unix background. Only, I didn't do much coding in Windows, my schoolwork has always been platform generic so I've done it on school's Unix boxes. From day one, I ran iCal, Mozilla, Thunderbird, iTunes, iPhoto, VLC player+MPlayer and X11, and I ssh'd over to my school for unix work, so absolutely everything I did on Windows moved on the Mac.



My advice is, get a Mac you use for everything else, and if you do Windows specific development or gaming, have a separate Windows box (which you can probably use via Remote Desktop for dev). Also, if you're a gamer type, I dare say gaming as you know it doesn't exist on the Mac. So far the only mainstream games that I've seen that run well are Blizzard's. I was very disappointed in that a new Powerbook with a Mobility Radeon 9700 was unable to run UT2004 at minimum settings even close to playable.

zapchud

Thought I'd mention that mIRC doesn't and will probably never exist for Mac OS X. There are plenty of good alternatives though.



Here's a few:



Xirc



Colloquy



iRC



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