Back-lit Keyboards

capnpyro

What do you think, is Apple going to introduce them? They could easily draw enough power off the USB port, and I recall reading an article a year+ ago about something to do with Apple and licensing some sort of indiglo technology? i cant remember. anyway, most artists, well myself atleast, prefer to work with the lights off and the light from your monitor isnt enough to see the keys most the time, it seems natural right?



Oooor, does anyone know a good way to make a back-lit keyboard?

cdhostage

Remember old radium watches? They had ladies who had radium paint and hairbrushes who delicated coated each appropriate surface with glowing yumminess. And to keep the hair taut, they licked them straight. Now, most of those who haven't died from the horrible mouth and throat cancers are suing their former companies.



So radium glow is out - customers would like to keep their fingers.



A nice green LED underneath each key would be nice. Wouldn't draw too much power, either.

buonrotto

Ah, yes, the legacy of Jason O'Grady. I think it's not happening any time soon, not even the glow-in-the-dark variety. Not unless it becomes more, uh, stylish looking.

matsu

What's the stuff in those indiglo watches? Is that dangerous too? Anyway, particularly with the iBook's white keys, I think that the LCD would probably provide enough light to light the keyboard. iBook owners?

nebrie

Well, IBM makes a ThinkPad with a lit keyboard. They have this ad they show rarely at 2 or 3 in the morning with leon talking about it in the dark with the notebook on, the other guy turns on the light and leon is in pajamas. Anyways, from what I could tell, there was this tiny light on the screen/lid, right below the lcd, that bathed the keyboard with a dim but workable white light. It's *very* cool looking.



[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Nebrie ]</p>

eman

[quote]Originally posted by Nebrie:

<strong>Anyways, from what I could tell, there was this tiny light on the screen/lid, right below the lcd, that bathed the keyboard with a dim but workable white light. It's *very* cool looking.

</strong><hr></blockquote>



So why doesn't Apple have something like that?

mike eggleston

I think that Apple would be wise to introduce a backlit keyboard. And it could be done with newer LEDs that have multiple colors in it. Also it wouldn't be hard to get it to where the computer told the keyboard which set of keys gets which color. Like five sets: Arrow Keys, Function Keys, Modifier Keys, Letters, and Number pad. What is your take on this idea??

rrabu

It would be an extremely expensive keyboard, but why not have something like a watch display at the top of each key (indiglo back-lit)? I think it would be great if the letters/symbols on the keys changed depending on your keyboard layout. Furthermore, it could do the same for when modifier keys are pressed on the fly. A programming interface for this function could be supplied and games could put better symbols on the keyboard when you play them. Switching apps could change the keyboard.

Switching mode/function in an app could change the keyboard.



I'm thinking something like the keyboard control panel does, but built so any app can show you on the real physical keyboard, what any key will actually do.



Potential problems:

- cost (if every Mac had one, it may bump the entry level Mac's price up -- optional extra would be only way to do it but then you lose savings in numbers that you have when forcing it on all new customers)

- power consumption?

- reliability (complex key board may be more prone to failing -- look at some of Microsofts fancy keyboards)

- demand



Other benefits:

- New feature that might have more people consider the Mac



What do you think?

nebrie

glow in the dark keys!

jutus

cdhostage: That is a neat story about radium. I remember hearing that when radium was first discovered, people thought it was a fountain of youth agent.



That was before exposed folk started dropping like flies.



Regarding the use of LEDs, there are several complications. 1) a LED array of 78 LEDS would put off some warmth and consume enough juice to effect battery time. 2) LEDs tend to be too thick to place in the sliver thin keyboard on the powerbooks. Remember, the key needs to be able to depress fully.



Using glow in the dark paint could also be a problem, since the paint could come off.



Creating the keys out of glow in the dark plastics would result in a whitish-green keyboard... not too attractive.



For any kind of flourescent paint/plastic to work, the keyboard needs to be exposed to light... A keyboard on a closed powerbook doesn't get much light.



From what I hear, indiglo also consumes a fair bit of energy. It adds to the already complex wiring on the keyboard and would be a significant engineering endeavour.



A compromise from an engineer's perspective would be to replace the plastic back panel (it's a very thin sheet) with a plastic that is clear with fiberoptic properties, and shine the light in from the side(s).

falcon

My dad has that IBM laptop with the small light above teh LCD. Its pretty neat but more of a novelty that anything else. It would look very weird on a Powerbook. Oh and the IBM thinkpads suck.

capnpyro

yah, you could perhaps change in the keyboard control panel wether its on/off, rather then having a toggle switch on it. maybe have some options, perhaps a billy jean effect? the keys light up as you touch them, that way you can sort of check down and make sure your on the correct one.



or, every single key wouldnt have to be lit individualy. you could have a track of light that runs around the outside of the home keys, the keys being plastic would disperse enough light to see the whole thing, then another strip of light around the f, arrow and number pad and whatever the 6 key block above the arrows is called also, arent those strip lights varaible, in the keyboard control you could maybe control the brightness of it, like a dimmer switch. the light would of course need to be ice blue



[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: CapnPyro ]</p>

fuse

<a href="http://home.att.net/~btechinc/pline.html"; target="_blank">This company</a> has developed a back-lit keyboard, but it doesn't look like it is on the market yet.

david byrd

[quote]Originally posted by Fuse:

<strong><a href="http://home.att.net/~btechinc/pline.html"; target="_blank">This company</a> has developed a back-lit keyboard, but it doesn't look like it is on the market yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>



We have been pursueing multiple avenues to get our Technology out there on the market. Not all have been successful, but we are relentless. I have the good news to announce that we will be releasing a press release with a company we have licensed a market segment of the technology. Our aim is to get this in every new keyboard, whether it be wireless, usb, desktop, laptop, PDA, or any other version of a data-entry device.



For understandability sake, these things take time. The licensing agreement took over four months to negotiate and they came to us. While you may find the licensee's product a little expensive, with our technology it looks very cool.



You can find them selling this product at Itronix in their Rugged Laptops. (See <a href="http://www.itronix.com)" target="_blank">www.itronix.com)</a> And do not worry -- you will see this soon in regular laptops, and desktop keyboards.



Watch for more messages on <a href="http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=94437"; target="_blank">http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=94437</a>;

-or-

<a href="http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?s=90f3adfaef2db1f915640c7a6a494a1d&; threadid=1785" target="_blank">http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?s=90f3adfaef2db1f915640c7a6a494a1d&; threadid=1785</a>

-or-

URL : <a href="http://www.nite-surfer.com"; target="_blank">http://www.nite-surfer.com</a>;

david byrd

Sorry the Itronix link had a flaw:



<a href="http://www.itronix.com"; target="_blank">http://www.itronix.com</a>;

stimuli

Why not just have a white keyboard w/ black markings, like the iBook? The light from the screen would illuminate them enough to see. I can see the white markings on my black Wallstreet in total darkness w/ the screen light reflecting off them.



Or, use some very light sensitive agent, like Cats-eyes on a road or the reflective tape on bicyclists' gear, in the keys/markings? They would amplify the light enough to see quite well.

berbercarpet

[quote]Originally posted by CapnPyro:

<strong>maybe have some options, perhaps a billy jean effect? the keys light up as you touch them, that way you can sort of check down and make sure your on the correct one.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Wouldn't it be too late by then?



I know what key i'm on by placing my fingers in the right place on the keyboard.



The light is to help me place my finger in the right place.



Just light up the letters

The entire keyboard doesn't need back-lit; just the painted-on letters.



The Army uses radio-active paint to slightly glow stuff.



i would think somewhere out there would be some paint that would last 18 - 24 months and give off a very sutble white-blue light that they could paint the characters on the keys with.

ferro

I got it....!!!



How about a small ultravoilet led flasher/strobe on the left or right (both sides?) of the screen that would flash about every 1 to 6 seconds and the letters of the keys would be composed of a blue-green glow in the dark ink...



So that your keys would/could look like they are pulsing... or you could increase the rate of flash and they would glow very brightly... or turn them off all together...



you cant see ultravoilet so... you can get that "I just came from the beach tanned look" too...



I dont think a few pulses of ultraviolet light would give anybody a tan...



I lived in a dorm room for six months bathed in alot of ultraviolet light and it didnt effect me any...





E PLURIBUS UNIX

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thunderpoit

had 2 ideas, one more complex than the other. ok, the first one, what if you were to use glow in the dark paint for the letters on the keyboard? lcds dont give off a huge amount of light, but surely enough to illuminate a little paint to make it stand out in the dark. the second idea was an lcd panel gives off plenty of light from its back too. i dont know how flexible fiber optics can be, but what if a bundle of fiber optic strands were positioned behind the lcd and then each strand went to each individual key on the keyboard? would the constant opening and closing of the lid cause them to break? the only other problem i could see with this is im not sure how you would be able to remove the keyboard to access ram/airport card, etc. as there would be (87, was it?) several dozen strands hanging off of it if you would remove it. but it was just a thought after seeing how brightly the apple logo was able to glow on the g4 and ibook

ferro

How about we just go with this...







E PLURIBUS UNIX

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outsider

You know something, i was thinking about the above idea too. Having 2 LCD panels would be power consuming sure but with more futuristic batteries (or even fuel cells) we can acheive something like this. Multilingual keyboards would be easy to impliment as would a real numeric keypad.



Not to mention multi-trackpad buttons! Then Linux users won't have an excuse1



[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>