routers and switches and hubs.. oh my

zo

I was fine with hubs... easy.. they make a lan. Then routers entered my life and found out that they are commonly used to split a single connection. Great, got one.



Now, wtf does a switch do?



I have a friend who needs 7 computers on a router, but for the life of me I cannot find anyone who sells 8 port routers in brussels anymore. They all say to get a 4 port router and add a hub to it (like the US Robotics Broadband Router). Then others say to add a Switch.



WTF do I do? Can anyone give some tips what to do?



They want to split a cable modem connection with almost all macs and one PC and the occasional laptop that prances in.



Thanks in advance

thuh freak

a switch is like a more intelligent version of a hub. each shares the same uplink connection, but a switch does it faster. and many switches have builtin NATs.



if u got 7 comps to go to a 4 port router, i suggest getting a hub, and expanding one of those ports into a few more. so do 3 comps direct into the router, and 4 on the hub. since its right behind a router, the speed difference between a hub and switch is probably minimal. switches tend to cost (a little) more.

chych

Difference between a switch and hub is that a switch passes data based on the MAC (not Mac) address, which is a string of hex digits unique to all netowrk cards. A hub is "dumb" and repeats a signal recieved from one port to all ports (the computers figure out if the data is theirs or not).



A router really is a device that sends data based on network data (IP addy) and is often connected to a modem for connection to the outside.



Switches are faster than hubs, but more costly.



Anyways, just stick a switch to one of the ports on the router and it should work to get more computers on, a hub will probably work too.

klinux

Most router has NAT built-in as well.

zo

so, in theory I should be able to buy a 4 port router, add a 4 port HUB or Switch, and everything should configure itself automatically? Or do I have to start configuring things? This has to be as HASSLE FREE as possible. I want to set it up and forget about it.



So, I would have 7 ports total. 4 + 1 on router and the 4 on hub but one taken on router for hub.



I already had enough hassles with my router.. I would hate for these people to have to go through with it as well.

ebby

Don't know about your router, but mine has 4 LAN ports and one specifically for WAN (Wide area networks, like cable modems/DSL) I can't use the 5th port for a computer on my home network.



My network starts with a cable modem connected to a router. To the router, I connected a printer, laptop docking station, and 2 4-port switches. (That fills up all 4 ports) One switch connects my G3, PC, and Wireless hub, leaving one port free for sudden LAN parties. The second switch connects a 8500/120, Quadra 650, and a second laptop station.



So there you have it; Routers, switches, and hubs in one network. 4 computers, 2 docking stations, a network printer, and a wireless station all connected in a harmonious utopia. And if there is a DHCP server in the router, (Some cheap routers don't have them) other computers will configure themselves automatically. :cool: You will have to set up the router the first time, and turn off multiple DHCP servers on Wireless Hubs and sutch, but once it is set, you will not have to reconfigure it.



[ 10-15-2002: Message edited by: Ebby ]</p>

klinux

Like Ebby said, DHCP is the way too. Once that is configured and everything is running happy, then you start tinkering with it (WEP, limiting which MAC addresses can get on, etc).

nebagakid

well, the thing is....the current ethernet connection is a DHCP server based connection, so I just need something to turn one port, into three ports



or, is that what i have been saying all along? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

zo

the router would be DHCP, yes.



I just want to make sure that it's all automatic since I wil not be around after an initial setup.



Like my router now, if people add their PCs, laptops, macs and have DHCP on, thats it, nothing else to do.

ebby

[quote]Originally posted by Nebagakid:

<strong>well, the thing is....the current ethernet connection is a DHCP server based connection, so I just need something to turn one port, into three ports</strong><hr></blockquote>



Ahh, well if you do that, your ISP will try to charge you for each computer you put on the net. Even though the router is a DHCP server, it can still act like a DHCP host to your ISP.



EDIT: Edited for clarity.



[ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: Ebby ]</p>

ebby

What the hay! this seems to ba some weird double post. Enjoy :cool:



[ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: Ebby ]</p>

g-news

what you're referrig to, ebby is nat, not dhcp.

And I have personally never seen a switch with NAT, to contradict an earlier post. NAT (Network address translation) is typically present in routers targeted at broadband services and in cable or dsl modems. It basically handles the routing of the incoming data so that data is correctly fed to the correct IP address (because typically you only have one external IP address for a DSL or cable connection. So the data has to be split up to get to were it's supposed to go.

DHCP on the other hand is just a server service supported by several routers and broadband modems that allows for dynamic and static Ip address distribution, often based on MAC addresses. what's so handy about this is that it also sends all the other info to the client machines, like DNS addresses etc (all the stuff you need to establish a connectio with the internet). That means you just have to configure the router ONCE and then ANY computer you plug into the same network as the router, if it supports dhcp, is instantly set up correctly to access LAN and web.

A switch can have managed or unmanaged ports, ie you can either configure it (or have to configure it) or have it as easy as a hub, just faster and without as many collisions (or none at all if you're lucky). Unmanaged switches are cheap nowadays and you can get a 8x100 1x1000 with an option of another 1x1000 switch for under 200.- swiss franks, ie about 120-140$.

the Surecom EP-810CG for example is a nice piece of hardware for little money.

A hub is often just referred to as a lump of solder actually it simply multiplies the ports, it has no "intelligence" at all, often resulting in some unwanted behavior, especially on heavy loads. They're becoming rare though, I can barely find any on sale anymore. (on the other hand I don't look out for them either).



So, get a small router and a big switch, or even better a router/switch combo, as US robotics makes them.



G-News

res

For under $100 you can get an smc barricade 8-port Cable/DSL Broadband Router (SMC7008ABR).



It is a combination router and 8-port 10/100 Mbps dual-speed switch. It also gives you some basic firewall protection.



I've used several of the 4 port versions and I really liked them.

der kopf

Hey, ZO, for what it's worth, the shop Macc in Gent (half an hour or so from Brussels) sells 8 port LinkSys routers, and they are, I think, not too expensive, as a shop. (look at <a href="http://www.macc.be)" target="_blank">www.macc.be)</a>

ebby

[quote]Originally posted by G-News:

<strong>what you're referrig to, ebby is nat, not dhcp.</strong><hr></blockquote>



I can see how my post appears to use NAT, but that is not what I wanted to talk about. My cable modem service uses DHCP to configure the computers on the network. My router uses this DHCP information to configure its self. But the router also has a built-in DHCP server to configure other computers on my LAN. This is different than NAT because NAT filters packets of information and directs them to to specific computers on my network. NAT and DHCP are two very different features.



[ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: Ebby ]</p>

gardenofearthlydelights

A switch should be twice as fast as a hub, even if they are doing the same thing. A switch can negotiate 10-100Mbs speed in both directions (up and down), but a hub can't.

zo

my mind is going numb here. Lemme give you an example and someone tell if it works:



I but a 4 port router. I add a 16port switch (or hub) to one of the router ports. I then add 16 computers to the switch/hub. Will all 16 computers share the network connection (ie broadband/cable/adsl)? A hub is dumb, I got that. In the case of a switch, would I have to configure anything?



thanks

ebby

[quote]Originally posted by ZO:

<strong>my mind is going numb here. Lemme give you an example and someone tell if it works:



I but a 4 port router. I add a 16port switch (or hub) to one of the router ports. I then add 16 computers to the switch/hub. Will all 16 computers share the network connection (ie broadband/cable/adsl)? A hub is dumb, I got that. In the case of a switch, would I have to configure anything?



thanks</strong><hr></blockquote>



It will work, but you can only get 15 computers on the 16-port switch. (One port is for an uplink to the router) You probably don't have to configure the switch. (What kind is it? Brand/model?)

zo

it was just a hypothetical question, thanks Ebby.

jccbin

One more wrench for the gearage:



The Ethernet spec (ISO, i guess or ANSI) prohibits linking more than 3 layers deep.



I mean this: you can't link:



Router

|

Switch

|

Switch

|

Switch





You CAN link:



---------Router----------

| | |

SWITCH SWITCH SWITCH

|||||| |||||| ||||||

SSSSSS SSSSSS SSSSSS (each S= switch)

|||||| |||||| ||||||

CCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCC (each C= computer)



here, you can also use hubs, routers, etc



The spec ha to do with signal quality over the wiring with all those connectors. You can branch off as many times as you have ports on your router, hub, switch, but not more than three layers deep and still be in spec.



And, yes, your network will likely NOT work if outside this spec. go figure.



:-)

ebby

No way! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> 3 layers deep? I didn't know that. I optomized my network for speed. Cool fact. Thanks. :cool: