iMovie/iDVD PAL-NTSC Madness -- Help?
Hey all,
My family's early video archives (ca. '91 onwards) are in analog PAL format on 8 Millimeter tapes and they're starting to degrade in quality (some of them already have, unfortunately
). We're trying to archive them to DVD before they're all gone.
(This doesn't reflect very well on modern media's data retention. *sigh* )
Anyways, I of course decided to use my new PowerBook G4 for this noble project!
The machine is the latest and greatest (15" with 1.5 Ghz, 512 MB RAM) and handles video stuff well. The problem is with iMovie, which I have never used before (and yes, I looked through the manual and help files).
Since we're from Europe, all our videos are in analog PAL on 8mm tapes.
Here's the deal: When I try to import from an 8mm PAL tape in a DV Camcorder (that also speaks PAL and analog since it's multifunction) via FireWire in iMovie, the machine imports about 9 minutes / 1.9 GB of video, and then stops. It doesn't continue importing but always stops ater 9 minutes (this is reproducible). Also, during import processor usage is at 100%, there is no sound pass-through from the video to the PowerBook's speakers, and iMovie says "Record from camcorder...", not "Import...", on the import button.
When I try to import video from an 8mm tape that has digital content on it (in other words, content from an 8mm analog PAL tape that we transcoded onto another 8mm tape in digital format), the import works all the way until the end of the tape (in other words, hours can pass by and it continues importing and doesn't stop), processor usage is at around 25%-33%, and there is audio passthrough to the PowerBook's speakers.
I don't understand why this is happening. I'm saving all the video on a fast external 160GB FireWire drive, so that's not an issue. The problem seems to be between importing analog and digital content from a DV camcorder.
Also, 20 minutes of the DV imported from the analog tape takes up as much space as more than an entire hour of DV imported from the digital tape.
Question 1: How can I (if at all) make import from the analog tape as smooth and reliable as from the digital tape?
And now on to iDVD. I've read through the help file, but I can't figure this out.
Question 2: What is the difference between the "Best Quality" and "Best Performance" setting?
When Best Quality is chosen, a little over an hour of DV fills up half of the DVD on the space meter. When Best Performance is chosen, the same amount of DV fills the entire disk and I get a "no place left" error.
One would think that Best Quality does indeed get the Best Quality, but why then is the entire disk not filled? I simply don't understand, and since I'm trying to archive aleady degraded content here, I don't want to compromise on quality at all.
Any helps, tips appreciated.
My family's early video archives (ca. '91 onwards) are in analog PAL format on 8 Millimeter tapes and they're starting to degrade in quality (some of them already have, unfortunately
). We're trying to archive them to DVD before they're all gone.(This doesn't reflect very well on modern media's data retention. *sigh*
)Anyways, I of course decided to use my new PowerBook G4 for this noble project!
The machine is the latest and greatest (15" with 1.5 Ghz, 512 MB RAM) and handles video stuff well. The problem is with iMovie, which I have never used before (and yes, I looked through the manual and help files).Since we're from Europe, all our videos are in analog PAL on 8mm tapes.
Here's the deal: When I try to import from an 8mm PAL tape in a DV Camcorder (that also speaks PAL and analog since it's multifunction) via FireWire in iMovie, the machine imports about 9 minutes / 1.9 GB of video, and then stops. It doesn't continue importing but always stops ater 9 minutes (this is reproducible). Also, during import processor usage is at 100%, there is no sound pass-through from the video to the PowerBook's speakers, and iMovie says "Record from camcorder...", not "Import...", on the import button.
When I try to import video from an 8mm tape that has digital content on it (in other words, content from an 8mm analog PAL tape that we transcoded onto another 8mm tape in digital format), the import works all the way until the end of the tape (in other words, hours can pass by and it continues importing and doesn't stop), processor usage is at around 25%-33%, and there is audio passthrough to the PowerBook's speakers.
I don't understand why this is happening. I'm saving all the video on a fast external 160GB FireWire drive, so that's not an issue. The problem seems to be between importing analog and digital content from a DV camcorder.
Also, 20 minutes of the DV imported from the analog tape takes up as much space as more than an entire hour of DV imported from the digital tape.
Question 1: How can I (if at all) make import from the analog tape as smooth and reliable as from the digital tape?
And now on to iDVD. I've read through the help file, but I can't figure this out.
Question 2: What is the difference between the "Best Quality" and "Best Performance" setting?
When Best Quality is chosen, a little over an hour of DV fills up half of the DVD on the space meter. When Best Performance is chosen, the same amount of DV fills the entire disk and I get a "no place left" error.
One would think that Best Quality does indeed get the Best Quality, but why then is the entire disk not filled? I simply don't understand, and since I'm trying to archive aleady degraded content here, I don't want to compromise on quality at all.
Any helps, tips appreciated.
Comments
Originally posted by m01ety
Question 2: What is the difference between the "Best Quality" and "Best Performance" setting?
When Best Quality is chosen, a little over an hour of DV fills up half of the DVD on the space meter. When Best Performance is chosen, the same amount of DV fills the entire disk and I get a "no place left" error.
One would think that Best Quality does indeed get the Best Quality, but why then is the entire disk not filled? I simply don't understand, and since I'm trying to archive aleady degraded content here, I don't want to compromise on quality at all.
Any helps, tips appreciated.
Best Quality = Fixed Bit Rate (FBR)
Best Performance = Variable Bit Rate (VBR)
When using FBR, we always know how much every second of footage is going to take. So we also always know how big the final file is going to be. Why it stops at one hour, I don't know... FBR uses only one pass processing, so you'll find that once you encoded your media assets, they can be used again without re-encoding. The bad thing this is that complex scenes uses the same number of bits as static scenes, so when there is high action, there is a drop in quality.
With VBR, the entire movie will fit into the DVD regardless of the length of the movie (within limits). Different amounts of bits are used for different scenes. Fast changing scenes use more bits than static scenes. This is done so that the image quality looks the same regardless of scene complexity. VBR uses two pass processing, one to check out the complexity and another to do the actual encoding. Every change you make, say to the interactive menus, the rest of the DVD needs to be re-encoded because the number of bits available has changed. Unfortunately, iDVD is not smart enough to figure out that if you have not made any changes to the DVD, you shouldn't need to re-encode. So you'll find that you need to re-encode everytime you quit iDVD.
Personally, I think the choice of names Quality vs Performance is somewhat misleading... Just think FBR and VBR, and you'll be ok.
I don't do movies much, but I helped a friend recently with his project (my G5 smokes his iBook), so I learnt a thing or two. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
Best Quality = Fixed Bit Rate (FBR)
Best Performance = Variable Bit Rate (VBR
Thanks for the tip, but I'm pretty sure you're mixing the two up. Isn't Best Performance faster because it's Fixed Bit Rate?
After doing some reading at Apple Support Discussions, it would appear to me that Best Quality (nee "Worst Performance") is just that because there are two passes and optimizations vary the bit rate to make it high where it does make a difference and low where it doesn't matter that much -- and these complex calculations (performed by Compressor of FCP fame as of iDVD 4.01) create bad performance, but good quality.
Anyways, as far as the analog/digital thing goes, someone elsewhere offered a suggestion that I'll try... If it works, I'll post it here for posterity should someone encounter a similar problem.
Originally posted by m01ety
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When I try to import from an 8mm PAL tape in a DV Camcorder (that also speaks PAL and analog since it's multifunction) via FireWire in iMovie, the machine imports about 9 minutes / 1.9 GB of video, and then stops. It doesn't continue importing but always stops ater 9 minutes (this is reproducible). Also, during import processor usage is at 100%, there is no sound pass-through from the video to the PowerBook's speakers, and iMovie says "Record from camcorder...", not "Import...", on the import button.
When I try to import video from an 8mm tape that has digital content on it (in other words, content from an 8mm analog PAL tape that we transcoded onto another 8mm tape in digital format), the import works all the way until the end of the tape (in other words, hours can pass by and it continues importing and doesn't stop), processor usage is at around 25%-33%, and there is audio passthrough to the PowerBook's speakers.
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Also, 20 minutes of the DV imported from the analog tape takes up as much space as more than an entire hour of DV imported from the digital tape.
Question 1: How can I (if at all) make import from the analog tape as smooth and reliable as from the digital tape?
?
Question 2: What is the difference between the "Best Quality" and "Best Performance" setting?
When Best Quality is chosen, a little over an hour of DV fills up half of the DVD on the space meter. When Best Performance is chosen, the same amount of DV fills the entire disk and I get a "no place left" error.
?
iMovie just accepts the import of files <2Gb (=9min andsomething)
when using digital footage, iMovie has a build in scene detection; and it does cut long scenes into many (1a, 1b, 1c) WHEN connected to a digital mini-dv
why 20min of "convereted" video takes up as much as dv original material? no idea!! maybe the geniuses at the appe support forums know?-
you find at versiontracker other "dv import" software such as GCam, ImageDV, Movie Archive which produce the 2Gb chunks automatically?- later, you import the recorded files into iM and edit them?-
the quality thing in iDVD: you have a "fast" (=everything is encoded the same average bitrate with an average quality) choice and a "better" one (= different bitrates for different content) , as mentioned above.
btw: magnetic tape isn't for eternity; homebrewed dvds either! keep 'em away from bright sunlight, high temperature.-
Originally posted by m01ety
Thanks for the tip, but I'm pretty sure you're mixing the two up. Isn't Best Performance faster because it's Fixed Bit Rate?
I remember thinking the same when I found out too. That's why I said that the names were misleading. Apparently, there was something about encoding performance versus playback performance, but I didn't quite get it. I prefer to think FBR and VBR.
Just remember that the VBR option (whichever it is) can't save encoded assets, because iDVD is too dumb to know that you don't need to re-encode if you don't change anything! If you wanted to burn multiple copies, try the iDVD hack to "burn" onto a disk image and duplicate that instead. That's what I did with the video project I mentioned earlier...
Answer 1: "Record with Camera" vs. "Import" in iMovie 4
Appearantly, digital cameras that can play back analog content *and* output it as digital via FireWire are a rarity, and thus iMovie gets confused.
When iMovie detects a digital device attached, it presents the "Import" option, which will digitally import the content until you tell it to stop. Thus, while it will happily go on importing for hours, internally, it segments files into chunks no larger than 9 minutes/ 2 GB. (This is in the background and hidden from the user.)
When iMovie detects an analog device attached (such as an iSight or another webcam or VHS), it presents the "Record with Camera" option. Using the "Record with" option stops after 9 minutes/2GB, but not because of the file chunk limit (which is handled transparently and internally), but because importing from an analog device yields analog data, and iMovie works with DV, so the analog data needs to be converted to DV. So after reaching a 9min/2GB limit, iMovie stops and converts the analog data to DV. Then you can resume and continue with the next 9 minutes manually.
What was happening to me was that I had analog media in a digital device, and while my camcorder was reading the analog data and automatically converting it to digital when sending it to iMovie, the program thought that the camcorder was analog, and this imported 9 minutes of the video, and then went on to convert what was already DV, to, well DV. o_0 Hence the horrifyingly large file sizes.
Appearantly there's an internal mechanism in each DV camcorder with analog support that sets the mode the camera is in (analog or digital), and there is a time delay when this is set, so what happens is probably something like this:
1. Plug in camera into FireWire port.
2. Camera to iMovie: Hi, I'm a DV cam!
3. iMovie: Welcome! Setting mode to DV, showing "Import" option.
4. Camera: Hmmmm, I have an analog tape in. Sorry, I'm an analog device!
5. iMovie: Setting mode to analog, showing "Record with" option.
6. *iMovie stops listening*
7. Camera: Wait, wait, wait! I may have an analog tape in, but I can output it as DV on the fly! Change to DV mode, please!
8. *crickets chirp*, nothing happens as iMovie is no longer listening
To remedy this various people at the Apple Support fora have recommended various "plug FireWire in, plug it out, insert tape, remove tape, turn off camera, plug in FireWire, turn on Camera, add tape, remove Firewire" rituals that are sheer madness. None of them worked for me. I think the "trick" that does make it work properly is different for each camera, but this is the one that ended up working for me:
1. Plug in camera.
2. Turn on camera.
3. Open iMovie.
4. Switch to the camera window in iMovie.
5. Insert analog tape.
6. Wait until the "Record with..." appears.
7. Eject analog tape.
8. Insert digital tape.
9. Wait until the "Import" button appears.
10. Eject digital tape.
11. Insert analog tape.
12. Click "Import" before it disappears.
Worked everytime so far.
Answer 2: Best Quality vs. Best Performance in iDVD 4
Basically, Best Performance is if you want a DVD "now", and Best Quality is if you want a DVD "right". Best Performance is much faster but lower quality, and uses CBR (constant bitrate) encoding. Best Performance also employs iDVD 3's compressing technology and is for about 60 minutes of content only.
Best Quality, on the other hand, uses Apple's professional Compressor application's technology, and uses VBR (variable bitrate) encoding. This takes much longer because the compression algorithm is more advanced. You can have just about 120 minutes of content with Best Quality.
Although quality is often in the eye of the beholder, the following seems to hold true:
Best Performance, 60 minutes: Quality around 80% or lower of DV
Best Quality, 60 minutes: Quality around 100% of DV
Best Quality, 120 minutes: Quality around 95%-90% of DV
Originally posted by m01ety
Basically, Best Performance is if you want a DVD "now", and Best Quality is if you want a DVD "right". Best Performance is much faster but lower quality, and uses CBR (constant bitrate) encoding. Best Performance also employs iDVD 3's compressing technology and is for about 60 minutes of content only.
Best Quality, on the other hand, uses Apple's professional Compressor application's technology, and uses VBR (variable bitrate) encoding. This takes much longer because the compression algorithm is more advanced. You can have just about 120 minutes of content with Best Quality.
See, I wasn't wrong about the CBR and VBR settings (except I used the term FBR instead of CBR). And the misleading name is about *encoding* performance, not playback performance.