Same monitor
Is this LCD from Dell, use he same lcd panel as the 20 inch from Apple?
This display is cheaper, better contrast and image brightness than the Apple one.
Is it worth pay a few hundred more dollars for the Apple display?
This display is cheaper, better contrast and image brightness than the Apple one.
Is it worth pay a few hundred more dollars for the Apple display?
Comments
Anyway just check the crappie viewing angles and you will realise that it is not even worth considering it.
Originally posted by Londor
How can you ask if it is the same LCD panel as the Apple one when you say that it is brighter and has a better contrast?
Anyway just check the crappie viewing angles and you will realise that it is not even worth considering it.
yes, +/- 88 degrees is just horrible...
The brightness and contrast numbers are because of the backlight. See Tom's Hardware Guide article about why you shouldn't stare at brightness and contrast numbers too hard.
The 2005fpw has had some quality problems, but if you get a faulty one, you just send it back and get a replacement. I hear Dell's customer service regarding these is pretty good in the US.
If I was a US resident I'd have bought a Dell screen long ago, but it so happens Dell doesn't care about private customers here and Viewsonic/Benq are better choices. (Those don't have equivalent to 2005fpw I think, but they do have equivalents of 2001fp. 2001fp, and probably 2005fpw as well since it's so similar, is manufactured by Benq before it gets stamped with the Dell logo.)
If you get the Apple, you're paying around $700 for the logo, the looks and a Firewire hub. You're losing SVHS, composite and VGA inputs, which the Dell has. Though reportedly the composite and VGA are poor, and you should only use SVHS and DVI.
Technically 2005fpw is better and you get two of them for the price of one Apple 20".
Originally posted by Gon
Exact same panel.
The brightness and contrast numbers are because of the backlight. See Tom's Hardware Guide article about why you shouldn't stare at brightness and contrast numbers too hard.
The 2005fpw has had some quality problems, but if you get a faulty one, you just send it back and get a replacement. I hear Dell's customer service regarding these is pretty good in the US.
If I was a US resident I'd have bought a Dell screen long ago, but it so happens Dell doesn't care about private customers here and Viewsonic/Benq are better choices. (Those don't have equivalent to 2005fpw I think, but they do have equivalents of 2001fp. 2001fp, and probably 2005fpw as well since it's so similar, is manufactured by Benq before it gets stamped with the Dell logo.)
If you get the Apple, you're paying around $700 for the logo, the looks and a Firewire hub. You're losing SVHS, composite and VGA inputs, which the Dell has. Though reportedly the composite and VGA are poor, and you should only use SVHS and DVI.
Technically 2005fpw is better and you get two of them for the price of one Apple 20".
Can you please explain to the rest of us in what you base your statements:
"Exact same panel"
"Technically 2005 fpw is better"
Originally posted by Londor
Can you please explain to the rest of us in what you base your statements:
"Exact same panel"
"Technically 2005 fpw is better"
Panel in both screens is this:
http://global.lgphilips-lcd.com/en/p...g=view&idx=195
Better or worse, I guess that depends on what features you value. If you prefer to have the Firewire hub, the Apple is better, if you prefer the three additional inputs, the Dell is better. And if you look at the contrast and brightness numbers (which, I reiterate, don't mean much) the Dell is better.
Though not a technical detail, Apple display has 1 year warranty while Dell has 3. For me that would be a major factor to go with Dell. I also think Apple has a restrictive return policy for dead pixels (google it, it's not official info because Apple does not make their policy public, just like the panel thing isn't) but Dell allows return for pretty much any reason.
Originally posted by Gon
Panel in both screens is this:
http://global.lgphilips-lcd.com/en/...iew&idx=195
So if both screens have the same panel how it comes that the viewing angle on the Apple one is 170º (horizontal and vertical) and on the Dell is 88º. Can you explain that?
Originally posted by Londor
So if both screens have the same panel how it comes that the viewing angle on the Apple one is 170º (horizontal and vertical) and on the Dell is 88º. Can you explain that?
I think I can, yes. There are two basic ways to measure the angle, in one way you measure the total viewing angle side to side and in another you measure from the center to the side. So Dell is claiming 88*2 = 176 degree viewing angle. I guess Apple is just being slightly conservative when they claim 170 degrees, and the actual spec is equal since the panel is equal.
You should have guessed something was amiss from the Dell figure. No one buys a big display that bad.. even 17" iMac which I hear has just 90 degrees vertical, has 120 degrees horizontal.
The price difference is pretty unbelievable. Apple has to be the only company that gets away selling the same stuff (expensive stuff!) for twice the price.
At the store, when I check the manufacturer and other data of the 'X store brand' food it's usually the exact same stuff than the more expensive 'Y food brand' food next to it. But even then, the difference in price is like 10% or 20%, nowhere near what Apple's charging. For a while I though they would have competetive displays when they switched to DVI, but they no more have a competetive display aside from the 30" which is just too high end to sell a lot, and thus won't affect the bottom line no matter how high the margins. Like Dell 2005FPW is too much for the 20", the 23" gets trounced by HP L2335 and Benq WS231 IIRC.
Originally posted by Gon
Though not a technical detail, Apple display has 1 year warranty while Dell has 3. For me that would be a major factor to go with Dell. I also think Apple has a restrictive return policy for dead pixels (google it, it's not official info because Apple does not make their policy public, just like the panel thing isn't) but Dell allows return for pretty much any reason.
Apple has 3 year if bought with a computer and a apple care protection plan. Apple doesn;t have stupid adjustment tools on their monitors, better control over angle and vesa compliant also firewire and looks.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Apple has 3 year if bought with a computer and a apple care protection plan.
Fact. But Applecare is hideously expensive, not everyone is buying a computer at the same time as display, and not everyone is buying a Mac.
Apple doesn;t have stupid adjustment tools on their monitors, better control over angle and vesa compliant also firewire and looks.
Since when is possibility to adjust a bad thing? Besides the Dell has features which you *must* have controls for, like the inputs, PiP feature and such.
The Dell is more adjustable. Tilt, swivel, height and pivot. That's 4 kinds of adjustment, vs the ACD's tilt only.
VESA compliant, guess what, the Dell is too.
As for the Firewire and looks, I already mentioned them in my first post. I also said the price you pay for them is $700, not counting all the features you lose. The price of a dedicated Firewire hub is minimal, so we could reasonably say the difference for looks alone is $700.
Originally posted by Gon
Fact. But Applecare is hideously expensive, not everyone is buying a computer at the same time as display, and not everyone is buying a Mac.Since when is possibility to adjust a bad thing? Besides the Dell has features which you *must* have controls for, like the inputs, PiP feature and such.
The Dell is more adjustable. Tilt, swivel, height and pivot. That's 4 kinds of adjustment, vs the ACD's tilt only.
VESA compliant, guess what, the Dell is too.
As for the Firewire and looks, I already mentioned them in my first post. I also said the price you pay for them is $700, not counting all the features you lose. The price of a dedicated Firewire hub is minimal, so we could reasonably say the difference for looks alone is $700.
Oh right, I assumed those buttons on the front were for adjusting the LCD position and stuff (completely unnecessary on a digital connection)
UK:
Dell: £534
Apple: £999
US:
Dell: $639 (equivalent to £328 = saving of £206)
Apple: $1299 (equivalent to £668 = saving of £331)
UK prices include tax, I guess there's tax due on the US price as well!?
*sigh*
Originally posted by Indecisive PC user
Just looked up the prices for this monitor from Dell and the Apple Store:
UK:
Dell: £534
Apple: £999
US:
Dell: $639 (equivalent to £328 = saving of £206)
Apple: $1299 (equivalent to £668 = saving of £331)
UK prices include tax, I guess there's tax due on the US price as well!?
*sigh*
US don't pay 'tax' The price is as is, i think.
Anyways, I bought the 2005FPW, it has to be the most crisp 20" LCD I have ever seen. I've looked extensively at the Apple 20" also, but the Dell is simply a much better deal. I could get a 15%-20%+ discount on the Apple, but the Dell is STILL cheaper (and better) at the $639 that I paid for it.
-M
Originally posted by MacCrazy
US don't pay 'tax' The price is as is, i think.
*Wrong.
We have sales taxes which is similar to VAT, except our sales taxes are generally <10% (6% in my state) compared to your 17.5% (it's still this in England, right?) VAT.
*You can get around paying sales taxes either by buying over the internet (with some exceptions) or buying in a state with no sales tax (there are 2 or 3 states left w/o sales tax).
US prices are quoted without sales tax, so tack on at least 5% if you want a price closer to what most US residents pay for things.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
*Wrong.
We have sales taxes which is similar to VAT, except our sales taxes are generally <10% (6% in my state) compared to your 17.5% (it's still this in England, right?) VAT.
*You can get around paying sales taxes either by buying over the internet (with some exceptions) or buying in a state with no sales tax (there are 2 or 3 states left w/o sales tax).
US prices are quoted without sales tax, so tack on at least 5% if you want a price closer to what most US residents pay for things.
sorry, yeah we're still using the grossly unfair 17.5%! Although none on books!
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
You can get around paying sales taxes either by buying over the internet (with some exceptions) or buying in a state with no sales tax (there are 2 or 3 states left w/o sales tax).
Does that mean, if you buy from the Apple Store via the internet in the US (say, Florida for example), then there is no tax at all and what you see on the website is what you actually pay?
The whole price difference between the US and the UK for this sort of stuff has always been pretty depressing for us over here
Originally posted by Indecisive PC user
Does that mean, if you buy from the Apple Store via the internet in the US (say, Florida for example), then there is no tax at all and what you see on the website is what you actually pay?
The whole price difference between the US and the UK for this sort of stuff has always been pretty depressing for us over here
I was actually thinking about paying for a flight to NY in order to buy a cheaper PowerBook! But you don't save in the end, but you get a trip to NY!
Originally posted by MacCrazy
sorry, yeah we're still using the grossly unfair 17.5%! Although none on books!
22% here on the mainland. BTW, how do the overall euro prices work out in comparison to yours? Does continental Europe get their Apples cheaper?
Originally posted by Indecisive PC user
Does that mean, if you buy from the Apple Store via the internet in the US (say, Florida for example), then there is no tax at all and what you see on the website is what you actually pay?
The whole price difference between the US and the UK for this sort of stuff has always been pretty depressing for us over here
This is why I put "with some exceptions" in my prior post. If you buy stuff over the internet in the US, you only pay sales tax if the company you purchase from has a physical presence in your state. Apple has a physical presence in all 50 states so no matter where you live in the US, if you buy from Apple you will pay your state's sales tax.
Of course, there is MacMall, MacConnection & CDW for purchasing Apple products (and many more places to buy iPods). These places only charge sales tax in the state they are physically located so as long as you don't live in New Jersey (kiss her where it smells, take her to Jersey!