Apple Newbie- Need Powerbook Advice

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unc nickunc nick
Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Hello all. Long-time lurker here and very long time windows user. Over the past year or so, I've become enamored with Apple, though, and I've decided that my next purchase will be a Powerbook. My wife got the 12" 1.33 Powerbook about 4 or 5 months ago and loves it. I bought my parents a 12" iBook for Christmas and all of my daily 'computer support' calls have disappeared. So I'm pretty much sold. I've used OSX quite a bit now and I'm ready to make the switch, so no need pointing out that it will be a decently drastic change in the short-term.



Don't laugh, but my daily home desktop PC actaully runs WinME. It's gotten me by pretty well over the years, though, and I've extended it's life some by dumping IE and Outlook for Thunderbird and Firefox over the past months- I'm actually noticing much better performance and far fewer 'lock-ups' or blue-screens. My work notebook is an IBM T-41 with XP and it's been a pretty darn good machine. The previous 3 years, I've had a T20 and it was miserably unreliable.



So, to my question or request for you all... I was holding off on buying a Powerbook until the Jan/Feb revision came out, hoping for the G5 to hit, in the least a dual-G4. When they didn't, I was slightly disappointed but the price-drop placated me some. Now I'm faced with a seemingly tough choice- go ahead and buy now (12" w/ combo-drive) or wait until summer/fall to see where the processor goes. My real question is this- what will the G5 (or dual G4) bring to me, an average user with no true 'power' needs, that the current G4 will not? I don't game or program and I only dabble in website creation. Mostly, I'll be using the laptop for portability, internet, email, iTunes, and a few business productivity things. My real goal is longevity of the platform, as I guess my WinME machine attests to. My current plan is to get a laptop this year and get a new desktop with all of the then current bells and whistles a few years down the road, after Longhorn and/or OSinsertnumberhere have been on the market for a while.



So what are your thoughts? Is there anything in the immediate future (with Tiger, for example) that a dual G4 or a G5 will get me or allow me to do that the current G4 will not? Or, will the current processor (that is seemingly end-of-life) provide a certain longevity and stability that I may be risking with newer processors? I don't HAVE TO buy anything today, but more want to scratch an itch for a new laptop. What would you do? Would you wait or go ahead and strike now?



Thanks in advance for your help and opinions. This board is truly great.



Nick

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 11
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by UNC Nick

    Hello all. Long-time lurker here and very long time windows user. Over the past year or so, I've become enamored with Apple, though, and I've decided that my next purchase will be a Powerbook. My wife got the 12" 1.33 Powerbook about 4 or 5 months ago and loves it. I bought my parents a 12" iBook for Christmas and all of my daily 'computer support' calls have disappeared. So I'm pretty much sold. I've used OSX quite a bit now and I'm ready to make the switch, so no need pointing out that it will be a decently drastic change in the short-term.



    Welcome. Yes, Macs do result in fewer support calls. This thread will probably be moved outside of current hardware since this forum is for complaining, er commenting on the current machines, not for purchasing advice. No biggie.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by UNC Nick

    Don't laugh, but my daily home desktop PC actaully runs WinME. It's gotten me by pretty well over the years, though, and I've extended it's life some by dumping IE and Outlook for Thunderbird and Firefox over the past months- I'm actually noticing much better performance and far fewer 'lock-ups' or blue-screens. My work notebook is an IBM T-41 with XP and it's been a pretty darn good machine. The previous 3 years, I've had a T20 and it was miserably unreliable.



    WinME? You have my condolances. Looks like you have stretched it out well.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by UNC Nick

    So, to my question or request for you all... I was holding off on buying a Powerbook until the Jan/Feb revision came out, hoping for the G5 to hit, in the least a dual-G4. When they didn't, I was slightly disappointed but the price-drop placated me some. Now I'm faced with a seemingly tough choice- go ahead and buy now (12" w/ combo-drive) or wait until summer/fall to see where the processor goes. My real question is this- what will the G5 (or dual G4) bring to me, an average user with no true 'power' needs, that the current G4 will not? I don't game or program and I only dabble in website creation. Mostly, I'll be using the laptop for portability, internet, email, iTunes, and a few business productivity things. My real goal is longevity of the platform, as I guess my WinME machine attests to. My current plan is to get a laptop this year and get a new desktop with all of the then current bells and whistles a few years down the road, after Longhorn and/or OSinsertnumberhere have been on the market for a while.



    Well, not being a power user, you won't really need the G5 for its greater CPU power. A G4 is more than adequate for website creation.



    Obviously a G5 laptop would have better longevity, but to be honest, Apple machines have better longevity than PCs. A 1.5 GHz G4 is more than adequate for the next four to five years.



    When OS X was first released, it was rather slow. Since then Apple has made the OS faster with each consecutive release. In other words, if you could run OS X on a 800MHz G4 three years ago, a 1.5 GHz G4 will be more than adequate. The really important thing is to get at least a G4 cpu, but Apple no longer offers the G3 (which could be a dog under OS X).



    Quote:

    Originally posted by UNC Nick

    So what are your thoughts? Is there anything in the immediate future (with Tiger, for example) that a dual G4 or a G5 will get me or allow me to do that the current G4 will not? Or, will the current processor (that is seemingly end-of-life) provide a certain longevity and stability that I may be risking with newer processors? I don't HAVE TO buy anything today, but more want to scratch an itch for a new laptop. What would you do? Would you wait or go ahead and strike now?



    Thanks in advance for your help and opinions. This board is truly great.



    Nick



    Apple generally isn't into making stuff only run on the latest hardware, and a G4 powerbook isn't as pathetic as some of the G5 lovers on this forum make it out to be. One of my roomates uses his 1.25 GHz G4 for programming, website creation, iTunes, etc and it is adequate (he would like a faster hard drive which the new powerbooks provide).



    Tiger for example will run just fine on a new powerbook. Apple doesn't play the MS Game of forcing a hardware upgrade whenever they release a new version of the OS (though in fairness, the transition from OS 9 to OS X went easier if you had state of the art hardware). So, what I would say is this: don't worry about Tiger not running because it will run great.



    Should you buy? That is a more interesting question. The current PBs have great specs for the dollar and are incredibly well rounded machines. My advice to you (a sa former computer salesman) is to buy a machine when you need it. The thing is that we really don't know when the G5 powerbook is coming out. My guess would be at August (just in time for back to school). Can you wait that long? Do you really need a machine now? If you want to get one now, then the current machines are great for the money.



    Hope this helps.
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  • Reply 2 of 11
    bergzbergz Posts: 1,045member
    Very good advice from Yevgeny. The PB kicks ass. AppleInsider is full of elite professionals who stretch their machines to the limit often doing video/audio editing among other things which leads them to complain about a 2% performance issue. A consumer like you or me who buys a Pro machine will be DELIGHTED with its performance. Whenever you hear harping about performance issues, think about who's doing the complaining and why. For consumers like us, we sometimes don't realize that too many features is often a burden unto itself.



    Just one thing that was not mentioned above: many have rumored (grain of salt) that the G5 will make its way into the 15" and 17" PBs first because 12" is too much of a technical challenge, so if you're determined to wait it out, be prepared to wait in case these rumors pan out.



    Enjoy the machine!!



    --B
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  • Reply 3 of 11
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bergz

    Very good advice from Yevgeny. The PB kicks ass. AppleInsider is full of elite professionals who stretch their machines to the limit often doing video/audio editing among other things which leads them to complain about a 2% performance issue. A consumer like you or me who buys a Pro machine will be DELIGHTED with its performance. Whenever you hear harping about performance issues, think about who's doing the complaining and why. For consumers like us, we sometimes don't realize that too many features is often a burden unto itself.



    Just one thing that was not mentioned above: many have rumored (grain of salt) that the G5 will make its way into the 15" and 17" PBs first because 12" is too much of a technical challenge, so if you're determined to wait it out, be prepared to wait in case these rumors pan out.



    Enjoy the machine!!



    --B



    I for one would be amazed to see a G5 ina 12 inch PB. Those things are smallll
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  • Reply 4 of 11
    dave marshdave marsh Posts: 355member
    I've been using a 600MHz iBook 14" for the past three years (w/640MB RAM, but only 8MB of VRAM) and it has performed better with each iteration of MacOS X. I've also been waiting for a G5 PowerBook to replace it, but it's now clear that that is very unlikely in the next 8-9 months. So, I'm tired of waiting and really want to enjoy Tiger when it's released in June (?!).



    I strongly suspect the just released new PowerBooks are the end of the line for this particular processor (7447), and that Apple will either go with an upcoming new G4 from Freescale or a lower power (voltage) G5 from IBM in its next generation of PowerBooks. The inclusion of AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth 2.0, upgraded keyboard backlighting (15" & 17"), larger/faster hard drives, more RAM, optional 128MB VRAM for 15", and lower prices lead me to believe that Apple is just wrapping up this particular generation. It's done this in the past when getting ready to move on, since there's no longer any need to hold anything back for a future version to drive sales. There's nothing more Apple can do with this setup (beyond adding L3 cache), so it's time to move on.



    Current speculation is that Apple will possibly (1) start using the upcoming 7448 (lower voltage so better battery life), with its 200MHz FSB (vice 167MHz in the current 7447), (2) wait until later in the year to test the upcoming dual-core G4 samples and use it instead, or (3) wait for IBM to get out the next generation G5 (again, lower voltage so cooler/better battery life) so that they can continue with the thin lines of the current PowerBooks, vice building a Wintel-type brick just to accommodate the current fast, but very hot G5.



    For me, none of these options justify waiting. If I can get 3+ hours consistently on my everyday tasks (web, email, iMovie) (Apple says I should expect 4-4.5 hours, with a new battery), I'll be more than happy. I strongly doubt that Apple will move to the 7448, unless the other two options are substantially delayed. But, again, that means much later in the year, at best.



    By buying now, with a mature/stable PowerBook hardware configuration, I'm betting on having a great laptop for the next three years and being able to fully enjoy Tiger and iLife upgrades for the forseeable future.



    What you have to decide is what your current needs/desires are. For me, my iBook is well past its prime. I believe that these new PowerBooks are the final iteration of this generation of PowerBook, hence Apple has incorporated everything it can in them from the lessons it's learned since its initial release.



    I would have liked a G5 or dual-G4 PowerBook, but now that's clearly not in the cards during this buying cycle for me. For users with a more recent PowerBook (1GHz or newer), this release makes no sense. For me, it's perfect.
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  • Reply 5 of 11
    n3on3o Posts: 56member
    No need to wait. Buy it now.
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  • Reply 6 of 11
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    No need to buy it now, you have access to two perfectly good laptops, one from work, and the other from your wife. Use those, unless you have some specific desire to use iMovie/iDVD, you can get by fine on what you have now...
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  • Reply 7 of 11
    ibook911ibook911 Posts: 607member
    I believe in buying now because you can always upgrade. Why keep a notebook 3-4 years?



    With Mac notebooks, I'm going to try to never keep one much more than one year. Macs hold a great value, so by putting out another $400 or so, you can upgrade to the current.



    I'm going to get rid of my 6 month old iBOok, so I can get a new Powerbook, which is a bit more expensive switch coming from an iBook, but Powerbook to Powerbook upgrade in the future, will not be so bad.



    I can see the joy and savings of keep a computer several years, but I think it can be fun to keep updating too. Plus, the value Macs hold make this so much more possible than in the PC world.
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  • Reply 8 of 11
    n3on3o Posts: 56member
    I belive that it's an excelent moment to buy a new powerbook.



    As someone said before, no one knows when PowerBooks will see an upgrade again, and if it will even hold a G5 proc...



    I particularly belive that upgrades will come only in january '06. Not until august for sure ...



    So, if you don't want do wait that much nor you want do enjoy Mac OS X experience util then, buy it now !





    n3o





    P.S. Sorry for my previous impulsive post !
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  • Reply 9 of 11
    jidojido Posts: 129member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by UNC Nick

    Mostly, I'll be using the laptop for portability, internet, email, iTunes, and a few business productivity things.



    Get a PowerBook or an iBook. The new PowerBooks are great, with little extras like BlueTooth 2 and fast drives. The iBooks and PowerBooks are a proven design that will last you long.
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  • Reply 10 of 11
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,575member
    I suggest buying now. The G5 will not provide a giant improvement in performance when it first is used in laptops. Also, as mentioned above, it is likely that the G5 will appear first in the 17 inch PB and work its way down to the smaller PBs.



    The G5s and G4s run all the same software. Unless you are running a very high power application you won't know the difference. For daily tasks the other components (sufficient memory, fast HD, enough VRAM, good GPU) have as much or greater influence.



    If you go for the 15 inch PB you can get a better graphics card and (optionally) 128MB VRAM. This might add some life to your machine in years to come. However, for daily use the 12 inch PB should do fine.



    The 12 inch PB comes with 512MB RAM. This should be fine. I ran for about a year with 512MB RAM on a 1.25GHz 15 inch PB and only added memory till I started running InDesign simultaneously with other applications.
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  • Reply 11 of 11
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Yevgeny





    -Snip-



    Obviously a G5 laptop would have better longevity, but to be honest, Apple machines have better longevity than PCs. A 1.5 GHz G4 is more than adequate for the next four to five years.



    -Snip-







    I agreed with the rest of the post, but I think you got a little carried away in estimation the life-span of a 1.5GHz G4. By todays standers a single 1.5GHz G4 on a 167 MHz buss is slow. If things go well we will have powerbooks that are twice as powerful as the current one by the end of the year or early 2006, and it will not take much longer before a 1.5 GHz G4 on a slow bus seems pitiful by comparison. I'd say that your talking good life span of around two years rather then for to five.



    Of course, for me your numbers have been dead on for the past 3 models. I bought a PowerBook 520c in 1994, a Powerbook G3 (wall street rev 2) in 1998, and a PowerBook G4 (800MHz dvi) in 2002. But I think my current PowerBook is underpowered and I'm planning to upgraded it as soon as I can afford a new one (it is a little under 3 years old).



    Back to the original questioin: I would buy now. You can get a ton of work or other projects done before the next version comes out. Enjoy the powerbook now, it will handle the tasks you mentioned quite well, and if you need more power in a couple of years, PowerBooks usually have a good resale value.
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