Keynote and Bullet Points

Posted:
in iPod + iTunes + AppleTV edited January 2014
I was using Keynote to create a portfolio. I decided to use bullet points for my CV but you can't apply afterwards!!! Am I misinformed because I went to Apple help and it said to create bullet-points you had to create a new text box with bullet points. Is it me or is this really bad!?!!!



I'm thinking Apple feedback, anyone else?



In AppleWorks there was a new topic command, this isn't there.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Option-8 creates a bulletpoint, if you don't mind aligning the text by hand. I usually find that less aggravating than relying on auto-formatting, whether it's Keynote's or Word's.
  • Reply 2 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Towel

    Option-8 creates a bulletpoint, if you don't mind aligning the text by hand. I usually find that less aggravating than relying on auto-formatting, whether it's Keynote's or Word's.



    well that's what I did, I liked AppleWorks 'move topic left' I had just assumed, wrongly, that Keynote copied it. However, in Microsoft Office you can create bullet points after you've already written something. That is a major overlook!
  • Reply 3 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    ?



    You can't create a bullet list, then drag the text over?
  • Reply 4 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    ?



    You can't create a bullet list, then drag the text over?




    yeah but that's not really good enough. I don't want to have to move text boxes around. I want to quickly select a bunch if lines and say bullet point these. Oh well.
  • Reply 5 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    I'm genuinely confused here. You have the text selected, and you'd rather go to a menu item, than to just drag them to the bullet list? Okay. I don't get it, but okay.



    Oh fer... I just tried it. Made a list of raw text, with tabs and returns. Selected it, dragged it to a bullet list box. BLAM. All nicely indented and set up precisely like it would have been if I had typed it in and set it up as I went directly in the bullet list. Oy. Not seeing a need for Yet Another Menu Item for this one...
  • Reply 6 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    I'm genuinely confused here. You have the text selected, and you'd rather go to a menu item, than to just drag them to the bullet list? Okay. I don't get it, but okay.



    Oh fer... I just tried it. Made a list of raw text, with tabs and returns. Selected it, dragged it to a bullet list box. BLAM. All nicely indented and set up precisely like it would have been if I had typed it in and set it up as I went directly in the bullet list. Oy. Not seeing a need for Yet Another Menu Item for this one...




    Right so you've created a text box and want bullet points you either:



    ? select the text and click the bullet point button.



    ? Or you click slide inspector then appearance then body. then select the text you want bulleted and drag and then you have to reset up the transitions and re-align the text box.



    Not only is the second way a pain in the arse but it's anti-intuitive. What's wrong with 'new topic left' like AppleWorks or the bullet options in Office. (I'm not attacking you)
  • Reply 7 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Alright, I'm utterly lost. You want to convert a text box to a bullet point *without* having the slide visible, presumably doing it all from the outline view?



    ...



    And with that I'm back to saying oooooookay... because text boxes don't even show up in outline view for me. So you must be talking about using slide view. But you made selecting that a step in your second example. Hmmm.



    The slide is, for me, and I think for most people, the primary way of interacting with the slide. With that open, it's a quick triple-click, then drag.



    I guess part of the disconnect here is that I see bullet lists and text boxes as two very different things. One controls outlines, the other displays a chunk of text. You may as well be asking, in my opinion, for a button or menu item that converts from a chunk of text to a circle with that chunk of text in it as a label. \



    I mean, you're welcome to mail Apple with the suggestion, but given the current orthogonality of design between bullet lists and text boxes, I doubt it will happen. \
  • Reply 8 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Now I'm confused. The slide is visible. You have to click the 'Slide Inspector' button in the inspector and then 'appearance' and then 'body.' And that's not it, you then have to align and re apply the transitions.



    And come off it, bullets are text lines with an indent PERIOD!
  • Reply 9 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    The slide is visible.



    Double-click the text box you want to convert. Hit Cmd-A. Text is selected. Click and hold, drag to bullet box that is in place. It gets all nicely indented and formatted. Done.



    I'm not sure where you're getting this Slide -> Appearance -> Body step from, nor why.





    And if bullet lists are text boxes with bullet points, then circles with labels are just text boxes with funny shapes.



    Bullet lists are organization of concepts on a slide. Text boxes are just raw text. This is why bullet points show up in the outline view, and text boxes don't. A text box is a text annotation, not a hierarchical concept tool. A text box can be plopped down anywhere, for any reason. A bullet list has a specific purpose. Perhaps your assumption of equality between the two is because you've been forced to use text boxes in other programs *as* conceptual outlines? (Lazy programmers.)



    This is one of those areas where Keynote (and Pages IMO) shines... they rethought the various tools of a slide presentation tool and cleaned them up, creating a mix of highly powerful smaller tools that interact to create a very powerful toolbox. You just need to recognize that a bullet list and a text box are two different tools, and you need to use them for the correct task.



    But, definitely, mail Apple.
  • Reply 10 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Ok fair enough, but where is this bullet text box thing you talk off, to create one you have to click on those boxes, don't u? (I'm using as blank slide)
  • Reply 11 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yeah, ya got me there. I was actually a bit surprised a minute ago when I realized that you have to create a new slide to get a bullet box. D'oh.



    BUT...



    Create the new slide. On the current slide you want to convert, hit Cmd-A, Cmd-C. This just copied everything. Go to new slide. Hit Cmd-V. Note that the slide is now copied... with a bullet box underneath. Do the text box -> bullet box mambo, and delete the previous slide.



    Or, go to a slide with a bullet box, select it, Cmd-C, back to first slide, Cmd-V, then do that drag thang.



    Yeah, okay, that's clunky. Would like to see a fresh bullet box as an object to be plopped down, instead of grabbing it from another slide.



    Off to mail Apple!
  • Reply 12 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    that's what i was saying. click in the inspector 'slide inspector' then 'appearance' then tick body. that creates the bullet box. Then you can move the text but you have to re-align and add transitions again. I see bullets as a way of organising text, am I wrong - to create a list in a paragraph?
  • Reply 13 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Ah, okay, I've got it. What you're seeing is an accidental artifact, IMO. A 'blank' slide... isn't. It has a title, a bullet text box, and such, just turned off. They created the main title slide, then turned off the title and bullet box, and called it blank. I would never have expected to look there to turn on a bullet box, nor expect it to work, but thanks for the tip.



    Because of that, I don't know that I would count on that trick for other templates, particularly those from sources other than Apple. Interesting though. I wonder what else is squirreled away like that?



    (BTW, I searched through the documentation and Help guide for anything to do with bullet boxes, and didn't find that trick. It appears that the 'suggested' way is to create a slide with bullet points.)



    I believe the cleanest way of thinking about it is that bullet lists organize *concepts*. You can slap an image, text, a diagram, anything you want into a bullet point. Go look at OmniOutliner for an example of this on steroids. Text is just *one* thing you can put in there to describe the concept. Does that help?



    If you're wanting a slide *with text*, use a text box. If you're wanting a slide to *show concepts*, use a bullet box. The latter will show up in your Outline View as well, to help guide you through the flow of ideas you are presenting.
  • Reply 14 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Ah, okay, I've got it. What you're seeing is an accidental artifact, IMO. A 'blank' slide... isn't. It has a title, a bullet text box, and such, just turned off. They created the main title slide, then turned off the title and bullet box, and called it blank. I would never have expected to look there to turn on a bullet box, nor expect it to work, but thanks for the tip.



    Because of that, I don't know that I would count on that trick for other templates, particularly those from sources other than Apple. Interesting though. I wonder what else is squirreled away like that?



    (BTW, I searched through the documentation and Help guide for anything to do with bullet boxes, and didn't find that trick. It appears that the 'suggested' way is to create a slide with bullet points.)



    I believe the cleanest way of thinking about it is that bullet lists organize *concepts*. You can slap an image, text, a diagram, anything you want into a bullet point. Go look at OmniOutliner for an example of this on steroids. Text is just *one* thing you can put in there to describe the concept. Does that help?



    If you're wanting a slide *with text*, use a text box. If you're wanting a slide to *show concepts*, use a bullet box. The latter will show up in your Outline View as well, to help guide you through the flow of ideas you are presenting.




    ok, I think i understand, is there anyway to create *concepts* without seeing the bullets?
  • Reply 15 of 16
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yup. Select all in the bullet list (Cmd-A), then head over to the handy-dandy Inspector. Go the Text tab, then Bullets and Numbering. Select 'No Bullets' from the pop-up. You still get them showing up in outline view, but no bullets. You can also select bullets that are images of your choice, any character, sequential numbering, you name it.



    Yeah, I realize the irony of convincing you that text boxes and bullet lists are two separate entities, then having the Bullets & Numbering appear in the Text pane...
  • Reply 16 of 16
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Yup. Select all in the bullet list (Cmd-A), then head over to the handy-dandy Inspector. Go the Text tab, then Bullets and Numbering. Select 'No Bullets' from the pop-up. You still get them showing up in outline view, but no bullets. You can also select bullets that are images of your choice, any character, sequential numbering, you name it.



    Yeah, I realize the irony of convincing you that text boxes and bullet lists are two separate entities, then having the Bullets & Numbering appear in the Text pane...




    Ok well thanks for the enlightenment. I doubt I'll use outline view as I like to design my own slides and probably wont use the bullet boxes, but thanks for the help.
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