VirtualPC Effectiveness
A question for those using virtualpc:
I am interested in installing it on my PB 1.33/512 to be able to run some logic/math software that is only available on PC. Specifically GAMS, Arena, and possible either SAS or Visual Studio.
I am not interested in running any graphics intensive stuff like games.
My question is does it work? How slow is it? I'd be willing to deal with something about 60% as fast as the PC version...
Trying to decide if it is worth the investment. Thanks in advance for any help.
I am interested in installing it on my PB 1.33/512 to be able to run some logic/math software that is only available on PC. Specifically GAMS, Arena, and possible either SAS or Visual Studio.
I am not interested in running any graphics intensive stuff like games.
My question is does it work? How slow is it? I'd be willing to deal with something about 60% as fast as the PC version...
Trying to decide if it is worth the investment. Thanks in advance for any help.
Comments
I've had absolutely no problem using it. Runs great on my desktop that is a G4-400 (upgraded to a G4-800). My VPC drive image is set up to use 192 MB of memory. I also use that same VPC drive image on my first generation Titanium Powerbook (G4-400 with 384 MB memory). It's still useable, although slower than my desktop system...but I've been able to use it fine on client sites to do on-site contracts with for Microsoft Access development work.
So, you're 1.33 MHz PB should run fine. The trick with optimizing VPC for speed is to only provide Windows with enough memory for it to run efficiently, any more is wasted and you take away from the available memory for Mac OS X. So, in my example, if you set your memory for VPC to 192 MB, that still leave 320 MB for OS X.
There's some nice advantages to using VPC: it has an "undo drives" function that you can activate to undo or carry forward changes from session to session; you can CMD-Q and have VPC save the state of the PC exactly where it is, even in the middle of coding a program -- the entire memory state is saved. Next time you launch, it restores the PC to the exact same position you left it in. Nice thing about that is that you don't have to wait for Windows to boot!
Ever since changing from programming on a real PC to using VPC, I've never had a Windows crash (blue-screen-of-death). So VPC makes a very stable environment. I have to try to remember to actually shut down and reboot the Windows drive image about once a month so that all those Windows memory leaks don't give me a problem.
A lot of people rag on VPC for being too slow, but from someone that has been using it since version 3.0 and using it for programming in and making money with, I can attest that it suits mission requirements just fine.
Word of caution: Win XP, even with all the eye-candy turned off is slower than the Windows 2000 version under VPC. Windows 2000 (or Windows 2000 Pro) is the fastest, stable environment for VPC. If you already have a copy of Windows 2000, you only need the basic version of VPC. You can create your own blank drive image and install Windows 2000 onto it like any other PC.
Oh, and another thing, with VPC you are not limited to having only one operating system loaded. I have copys of Windows 98, Windows 2000 and Windows XP. If can load one or all at the same time. AND, VPC lets you seamlessly drag and drop files from the VPC to Mac to VPC. Personally, I think its perfect for PB use.
I also have a eMachine 1.2 Celeron at home.
VPC (XP home) on the pBook is only slightly slower than on the Celeron for "normal" stuff .... the harder you tax it, the slower it gets though.
Once the G5 gets here (along with all my other possessions) I'll load up VPC on that and see how it compares ... I'd expect to see better performance than the G4 of course... probably about on-par with that Celeron machine.
Originally posted by SteveWeasel
A question for those using virtualpc:
I am interested in installing it on my PB 1.33/512 to be able to run some logic/math software that is only available on PC. Specifically GAMS, Arena, and possible either SAS or Visual Studio.
I am not interested in running any graphics intensive stuff like games.
My question is does it work? How slow is it? I'd be willing to deal with something about 60% as fast as the PC version...
Trying to decide if it is worth the investment. Thanks in advance for any help.
As a general rule of thumb, VPC is fine for non-graphics intensive applications (I've used VPC7 on a G5 1.8MP), but if you're planning to use motion graphics or audio software, buy a Windoze box.
Originally posted by SteveWeasel
A question for those using virtualpc:
I am interested in installing it on my PB 1.33/512 to be able to run some logic/math software that is only available on PC. Specifically GAMS, Arena, and possible either SAS or Visual Studio.
I am not interested in running any graphics intensive stuff like games.
My question is does it work? How slow is it? I'd be willing to deal with something about 60% as fast as the PC version...
Trying to decide if it is worth the investment. Thanks in advance for any help.
what windoze will u be using? win98 on vpc7 works about alright on my poor ol' iBook G4 933mhz 256mb RAM...
windows XP... i won't even waste my time with that bloatware on my vpc7
i think windows 2000 in emulation for your programs, assigning it 256mb of ram with virtualPC 7, on your powerbook, should be adequate... 1GB of ram would be nice on your set up though
Originally posted by SteveWeasel
A question for those using virtualpc:
I am interested in installing it on my PB 1.33/512 to be able to run some logic/math software that is only available on PC. Specifically GAMS, Arena, and possible either SAS or Visual Studio.
I am not interested in running any graphics intensive stuff like games.
My question is does it work? How slow is it? I'd be willing to deal with something about 60% as fast as the PC version...
Trying to decide if it is worth the investment. Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheap alternative to VPC and faster would be if you happen to have a recent x86 PC availible, install XP Pro and use the included remote desktop server and get the client for your mac, I would not run heavy math/logic stuff in emmulation, VPC is great for small task oriented in house apps that are windows only, but I would not run something like GAMS in an emulator unless you have a gig or more of ram on your Mac, and a fast proc.
Emmulation is always slower than the real thing.
also, no matter what the setup you choose, go to black vipers web site and use his list to turn off all of the BS services in windows 2k/xp, I have seen a fresh install with nothing running go from 123mb of ram before tweaking to like 66 mb after, and do not waste time with win 98 as the above post mentions, it is crap.
Originally posted by a_greer
......and do not waste time with win 98 as the above post mentions, it is crap.....
i know
Originally posted by sunilraman
what windoze will u be using? win98 on vpc7 works about alright on my poor ol' iBook G4 933mhz 256mb RAM...
windows XP... i won't even waste my time with that bloatware on my vpc7
i think windows 2000 in emulation for your programs, assigning it 256mb of ram with virtualPC 7, on your powerbook, should be adequate... 1GB of ram would be nice on your set up though
I would be running Windows XP on VPC 7 as part of MS office Pro - I can get the entire package for $21 from my campus computer store.
I am looking for the ability to do work on my laptop for those times I am away from my desktop PC and unable to log in remotely.
Thanks all for the comments, I will likely go ahead and try it.
Good Luck!
Originally posted by pubguy
Well, if you absolutely MUST use XP, then you need to visit http://www.blackviper.com/ and go through his list of optimizations for Windows to turn off unnecessary services (remember, your Mac will natively perform most of those functions, so you can pretty much strip down the Windows XP services). Nice thing about VPC, once you've installed and have everything tweaked just right out-of-the-box, you can shutdown the drive image and then turn on the "undo drives" function. Then relaunch and you can safely go to town shutting off services as per BlackVipers site. You can test, try reboots, and test some more. If something totally hoses your system, just shutdown the drive image and "UNDO" the changes and you will be right where you started --- it's really a sweet way to experiment without having to worry about going through hours of re-install time.
Good Luck!
also on VPC7 using "drive images" are quite smooth, i have one for example that is win98 'clean', another win98 with office2000, so yeah, on top of undo drive like the above mentions, you can actually back up your multiple drive images (a drive image is a .vpc7 file in a directory in your Documents by default)... you can duplicate, copy, etc. this entire file and that's like backing up an entire "state" of a virtual machine.... hah! wish it was that easy on a bloody windoze pee cee piece of rubbish, xp or otherwize...
Using remote desktop still isnt as fast as a having a monitor, but it sure is a heap better than VPC, and it performs pretty well over the internet ( when Im away from home I can still remote into the Dell ).
my my we've come a LONG way in that time! try it, it's a fascinating trip down software memory lane!
Originally posted by jonnyboy
using virtual pc, i've recently been playing with installing the likes of windows 1.0, msdos 1.0, msdos 6.22 (remember that?!), windows 95, windows 3.11 etc.!
my my we've come a LONG way in that time! try it, it's a fascinating trip down software memory lane!
i'm too lazy to make anything new now because i have no idea how i actually put all the code and forms and (gasp) visual basic stuff together... i was 14 or 16 when i made it and didn't hang out much with girls at that time
well yeah, i'm 26 now and i've lost too many brain cells as the result of acquiring social skills and don't think i'll be able to rewrite the database app i made for them
edit: because as we all know microsoft is a piece of shite there is no way that office 2000 or 2002/3 whatever will convert that access97 .mdb file, the backward compatibility is like -5% and it chokes with "all" the visual basic code in there... geez... microsoft access... what a piece of sh1t database program, now that i think about it... and they were trying to tout it as 'web-enabled' or some sh1t in the late 90s.... before people essentially realised that it was rubbish and had to use MS SQL Server to get any real web-app-db stuff done
</rant>
Originally posted by jonnyboy
using virtual pc, i've recently been playing with installing the likes of windows 1.0, msdos 1.0, msdos 6.22 (remember that?!), windows 95, windows 3.11 etc.!
my my we've come a LONG way in that time! try it, it's a fascinating trip down software memory lane!
if you're into nostalgia, you gotta give this a shot:
http://www.scummvm.org/
hint: runs pretty well on a Mac...!! yeah.... i finally got to playthrough Day of The Tentacle
and Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis game is a chronicle worthy of the Indiana jones MOVIE trilogy