Audi A3 Wagon starting @ $25k
My girlfriend has a VW New Beetle Turbo. She loves it but after a few issues with the Beetle she's starting to eyeball new cars. As a German car fan she wants to stay with either VW or Audi.
We're looking at the new A3 and liking what we see. It's a 4 door Wagon with good looks and a potent 2 litre 4cyl Turbocharged engine. Generates 200hp and 209ft lbs of torque.
Audio quality interior and the promise of a faster 3.2 litre 6cly with 250hp and DSG tech (see Audi TT 3.2) VROOOOOOOOM
I've seen pics of the BMW 1-Series and the new Audi should CRUSH the baby bimmer. See below and decide for yourself.
verus
The Audi OWNS the BMW.
So who's jumping aboard with us?
We're looking at the new A3 and liking what we see. It's a 4 door Wagon with good looks and a potent 2 litre 4cyl Turbocharged engine. Generates 200hp and 209ft lbs of torque.
Audio quality interior and the promise of a faster 3.2 litre 6cly with 250hp and DSG tech (see Audi TT 3.2) VROOOOOOOOM
I've seen pics of the BMW 1-Series and the new Audi should CRUSH the baby bimmer. See below and decide for yourself.
verus
The Audi OWNS the BMW.
So who's jumping aboard with us?
Comments
The wife is next up in line for a new(er) car, not me, and she doesn't like wagons.
[edit]
As far as beating the BMW wagon, it's a different look. I can't say I am turned off by that "tiny Rolls Royce" swoop look the BMW wagon has.
They're coming in May so I think I'll go with my woman and we'll test drive one. That's dangerous though because I could see her buying one on the spot. She's a speed freak and this car has 20 more horses and 20ft lbs of more torque.
Knowing how the German companie like to do things I assume that the $25k model will be rather bare bones and with a nicely outfitted A3 you're looking at $30k. I do like that even the bare bones A3 is going to have that same 200hp engine. I can't wait to see the options.
I call, again, for the dead body of Chris Bangle.
Originally posted by groverat
How reliable are Audis, anyway?
Lately Audi has been pretty damn good. I don't see too many issues with the last two generation A4's.
Here in the greater Seattle area there are bunches of A4 and A6s around. I think Audi owners have been please. My girlfriends mother has a 3.0 A4 and it's been trouble free but then again it's barely over a year old.
Despite the technology sharing that Audi does with VW I find the Audi models have been more reliable than VW. I was eyeballing the Toureg but I've heard too many problems. I wonder if Audi engineers will come out with a better model based on the Toureg.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Lately Audi has been pretty damn good. I don't see too many issues with the last two generation A4's.
Here in the greater Seattle area there are bunches of A4 and A6s around. I think Audi owners have been please. My girlfriends mother has a 3.0 A4 and it's been trouble free but then again it's barely over a year old.
Despite the technology sharing that Audi does with VW I find the Audi models have been more reliable than VW. I was eyeballing the Toureg but I've heard too many problems. I wonder if Audi engineers will come out with a better model based on the Toureg.
I heard the same things. Audi is very reliable, and has the best build quality of all germans car makers (superior to mercedes and BMW).
I was interested in the future by the Touareg, but I also heard that this car has got many troubles.
Audi's should be similar. They had a bad reputation before Quattro was really figured out. Until the mid 90's it was a thoroughly German concoction of mechanical inner workings which were prone to failure as a mere consequence of overcomplexity. Computers allowed modern AWD systems to become much more reliable than the old ones.
I'm also in the market for a new car. The Audi is interesting, but I'll have to test drive it. My pre-screening process (time trial in the video game "gran turismo"
I'm actually going to test drive some cars this weekend. If I can find an Audi dealership nearby, I'll give it a run.
I think a lot of us will be curious to hear about your findings.
I had heard about the engine mount of VWs being problematic. Some repairs that are easily accomplished on a Japanese care can be hundreds more on a VW because of the engine access difficulties.
Audi has definitely improved their lineup since about 1998 and above. I expect good things from them. Suprisingly VW has tried to go upscale with the Passat and Phaeton even but I'll only pay so much for a VW.
I love the Toureg V10 until I read the user reports and various issues and consider the price...sigh.
Originally posted by e1618978
Look at a Volvo V50. Awesome car, fun to drive, and in my experience - better reliability than BMW, Audi or VW.
I like the V50 a lot actually. That's an option that I wouldn't mind considering as well if I was looking in that range.
Holy smokes the S40 T5 isn't bad as well. This is a Volvo???
218hp
Originally posted by hmurchison
I like the V50 a lot actually. That's an option that I wouldn't mind considering as well if I was looking in that range.
Holy smokes the S40 T5 isn't bad as well. This is a Volvo???
218hp
Here's a secret: the Volvo S40 is built on the same chassis as the Mazda3. The turbo option makes it a bit snappier than the 3, though, even with the extra weight.
It's also worthwhile to note that the Saab 9-2X is pretty much exactly a Subaru WRX wagon with Saab badges and an uprated interior.
I'm currently in a Jetta wagon, and despite the recent spate of bad reliability press for VW I've had no problems whatsoever at 25K miles. There seem to have been about three distinct trouble spots that account for the reduced reliability record. VW did a horrible job of managing the fallout, receiving some well deserved ill will in the process, but everything seems to have been sorted out.
I got the Jetta as a sort of poor man's Audi (VW and Audi do more than share technology-- they're the same company with market differentiation similar to the Toyota/Lexus split, but instead of the lexus-luxury meme using a vague "emotional connection to the driving experience" as the peg to hang the Audi hat on).
The Jetta has the same turbo 4 used in the Audi TT and shares many components with the similarly sized A4 wagon (of course that has all changed with the new Jettas and Audis coming out).
However, having said all that, if I had the scratch I would (and would have) gone for the Audi in a heartbeat. Better cabin materials, much, much better tuning on the suspension, more rear seat leg room (big shortcoming on the Jetta). Plus, I think the new Jettas are a step backward, cosmetically at least, while the new A4 wagon really makes good use of that somewhat exaggerated front end treatment that VW/Audi are deploying across their line up.
Plus, for my money, Audis manage to pull off being "high quality" without teetering into "pointlessly ostentatious", with a sort of utilitarian vibe that you don't get with the BMWs and Mercedes of the world.
Originally posted by groverat
How reliable are Audis, anyway?
Not very according to Consumer Reports. In fact the current trend is for European cars to be even more troublesome than American cars. The Japanese are still kicking everyone's ass here.(in most cases)
I "borrowed" these from Consumer Reports and put them on my hosting space because they require a subscription to see them.
And as they age...
American cars have never been more reliable than Japanese cars. They are often simply less expensive to repair and so it evens out for folks in terms of cost. However European cars are more costly to repair and now also are the worst in reliability. A true double negative of the worst kind.
This paragraph from CR makes me unlikely to consider a Volkswagon for quite some time..
By age five, the average problem rate is 79 per 100. Asian makes have 44 problems per 100; U.S. makes, 88 problems; European makes, 105. But overall averages mask a very wide range. The best five-year-old cars, the 2000 Lexus LS400 and Honda CR-V, have a trouble rate of 18 problems per 100. They hold up about as well as the average 2004 U.S. car. The worst five-year-olds were the VW Golf and Jetta V6, at 158 problems per 100.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Not very according to Consumer Reports. In fact the current trend is for European cars to be even more troublesome than American cars. The Japanese are still kicking everyone's ass here.(in most cases)
I "borrowed" these from Consumer Reports and put them on my hosting space because they require a subscription to see them.
And as they age...
American cars have never been more reliable than Japanese cars. They are often simply less expensive to repair and so it evens out for folks in terms of cost. However European cars are more costly to repair and now also are the worst in reliability. A true double negative of the worst kind.
This paragraph from CR makes me unlikely to consider a Volkswagon for quite some time..
Nick
All true, but:
The "incident" model that these reports track do not distinguish between major and minor problems. So a car whose engine occasionally falls out has a better repair record than a car whose radio frequently malfunctions.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, VWs had some real problems, mostly due to OEM sourcing (Bosch, in particular, seems to have provided some bad parts, a problem that hurt other Euro manufacturers). They included failure prone window regulators, substandard ignition coils, and bad Mass Air Flow sensors.
And that was pretty much it. Get those fixed and you're good to go, and they were all fixable under warranty. Where VW screwed the pooch was failing to issue a preemptive recall, and instead obliging people to wait till each thing failed before they could get warranty repairs done. Bingo, a finite manufacturing error, easily corrected, turns into a horrible incidence of repair record.
VW management apparently are alarmed by their precipitous drop in quality standings and are vowing vast improvements in the new models, but personally I think they need to see to their American dealer network to make sure problems that do crop up are dealt with quickly and fairly.
Having said all that, there is a general notion that über reliable Japanese cars are great if you want an appliance for getting from point A to point B, but if you want a little fun in your ride a few more mechanical hassles are worth it (and really, modern cars are so vastly superior to their predecessors, it's not like you're choosing between "reliable" and "falls apart" but more like "reliable" and "freakishly reliable").
Originally posted by addabox
it's not like you're choosing between "reliable" and "falls apart" but more like "reliable" and "freakishly reliable").
That's a very astute comment. Wha's more of an issue are the costly service plans that every foreign manufacturer seems to require in order to keep the warranty. European (German) car companies are the worst. You have to spend a $300 to get the oil changed on your BMW in order to keep the warranty together.
I have driven the Audi, but with a 2 litre turbocharged diesel, less hp more torque. Really nice ride.
Reliability wise, well lett's see we had six Audis in the last twelve years all were driven around 200.000 km before we got the next:
Audi 100 (V6 petrol) no problem
Audi 100 (V6 petrol) no problem
Audi A6 Avant 2.5 TDI (5 cylinder engine) no problem
Audi A6 (6 cylinder TDI) no problem
Audi A6 (6 cylinder TDI) two new turbocharger after 90.000 km and 130.000 km
Audi A6 (6 cylinder TDI) multitronic was repaired (still driveable, but had some minor issues which were due to an construction error and is solved now)
All of the repairs were done on Audi's cost.
Due to the milage the first 4 cars were nearly every month in service for an inspection, I guess the dealer did a lot of the needed repairs (callbacks) without telling us. with the last two cars they raised the mileage before the next inspection.
You don't need to get the engine out to change the timing belt.
On some Audis you need to remove the front bumper, but only the older ones and when they had the biggest available engine installed.
I don't understand is for what you need 200 bhp? Last time I checked you had a speed limit on your highways. Well with your low petrol price why not.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
That's a very astute comment. Wha's more of an issue are the costly service plans that every foreign manufacturer seems to require in order to keep the warranty. European (German) car companies are the worst. You have to spend a $300 to get the oil changed on your BMW in order to keep the warranty together.
I think that's actually against US law. Not sure, but I believe there is something about not locking you into dealer servicing.
However, that doesn't keep the manufacturer from getting all beady eyed when it comes to proving you got recommended servicing at the recommended intervals from an independent garage.
The VW site I frequent is full of horror stories about being denied warranty repairs because "Han's German Auto Servicing" didn't cross all the T's on the work order for the oil change.
In fact, one of the most spirited topics of discussion over there is how VW intends to sell really expensive cars if they are going to allow their American dealerships to behave like "Honest Eddie's Used Car Lot", an experience someone who has layed out upwards of 70 grand probably isn't going to take kindly to.
Another reason to choose an Audi, since they don't have the Jetta and Golf cliental making them think they can get away with shit.
But again, it all comes down to how good a job corporate management does keeping the dealerships in line. I think most any car made today could be pleasurable ownership experience if you have a friendly, honest dealer backing you up, taking care of problems in a timely manner and providing you with things like loaners and pick-up service.
Conversely, the greatest car ever made can be a nightmare if the dealership is full of rat bastard thieves, which an inexcusably large number of them are.
Originally posted by addabox
All true, but:
The "incident" model that these reports track do not distinguish between major and minor problems. So a car whose engine occasionally falls out has a better repair record than a car whose radio frequently malfunctions.
Actually they do get into that but I only feel comfortable posting in a general sense within this thread because it isn't really cool to hijack the whole thread premise. CR gives reliability ratings for a whole host of major and subsystems.
The only VW that has gotten a recommended from CR is the Passat and even those were only the most recent year and only the 1.8l engine.
Having said all that, there is a general notion that über reliable Japanese cars are great if you want an appliance for getting from point A to point B, but if you want a little fun in your ride a few more mechanical hassles are worth it (and really, modern cars are so vastly superior to their predecessors, it's not like you're choosing between "reliable" and "falls apart" but more like "reliable" and "freakishly reliable").
Our Honda was very enjoyable to drive. I like my Jeeps for some fun that only has average reliability. However as you said then numbers don't get to specifics, but I can tell you that 18 problems per 100 are much more likely to be nonissues in my book than 158 per 100. I mean no matter what the problem is you can't beat NO problem.
Nick
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Here's a secret: the Volvo S40 is built on the same chassis as the Mazda3. The turbo option makes it a bit snappier than the 3, though, even with the extra weight.
It's also worthwhile to note that the Saab 9-2X is pretty much exactly a Subaru WRX wagon with Saab badges and an uprated interior.
That is not exactly fair - you are implying that Volvo is using Mazda platforms and parts, when the reverse is true.
Volvo only uses Volvo designs and parts - the rest of Ford is also using them (ford 500, etc). The old S40/V40 were really mitsubishis, but the new S40/V50 is all new and all Volvo (and it kicks a*s - I had a T5 loaner when I took my V70R in last).
My girlfriend and I are anxious for the release of the A3, but even more so for the release of the S3 (which I don't think Audi has announced publically, but which is well-known among people "in the business") the following year. We're considering either an A3 or an S3, though we're not sure whether we want to replace my A4 (in which case we'd probably get the MUCH sportier S3) or her VW Beetle.
Remember, there is a difference between BUILD QUALITY and RELIABILITY. The build quality of Audi, BMW and Mercedes is very high (quality materials, good construction, fit & finish), though the reliability (frequency of repair) is statistically not quite up to the standard of Toyota or Lexus or Honda or Acura.
One thing I know from hanging around the dealership at various events, and from talking to countless techs, service writers, salesmen, etc., is that Audi owners are loyal and proud of the brand in a way that is similar, in my opinion, to Apple users. There's a bit of an "underdog" thing to Audi, in that they sell fewer cars than BMW and Mercedes, and are considered by many to be slightly lower on the "prestige" scale than those brands. Many Audi enthusiasts feel they're onto a secret, in a way similar to Apple fans.