Legal Software Issues

Posted:
in Mac Software edited January 2014
I am shopping around on Ebay for a mac and I found a good deal on and iMac G4. It had a big list of software included, however, the installation CD's are not included, and all of the programs are registered under the seller's name. Would it be legal for me to purchase this computer and use all of these programs if they are not registered under my name? I am thinking that the seller would be held responsible if I was caught with all of that software. Can you guys help please?



Thanks!!

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 10
    fahlmanfahlman Posts: 694member
    Illegal.



    As an example here is a portion of the EULA from Panther:



    3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software. You may, however, make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the Apple Software (in its original form as provided by Apple) to another party, provided that: (a) the transfer must include all of the Apple Software, including all its component parts, original media, printed materials and this License; (b) you do not retain any copies of the Apple Software, full or partial, including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and (c) the party receiving the Apple Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this License. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute, sublicense or transfer any Apple Software that has been modified or replaced under Section 2B above. All components of the Apple Software are provided as part of a bundle and may not be separated from the bundle and distributed as standalone applications.
  • Reply 2 of 10
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    I see our local self-proclaimed software license law expert has spoken.



    I don't see what the problem is? Say I buy a copy of software at a store and give it to you. Is this illegal?

    Now let say I install it on a computer and give the computer to you. Is this illegal? Did I make any "illegal" copies??



    Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting caught because it's VERY hard to trace and, frankly, nobody gives a sh_it about a single copy on some computer.
  • Reply 3 of 10
    fahlmanfahlman Posts: 694member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    I see our local self-proclaimed software license law expert has spoken.



    He asked a question and I answered it correctly.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    I don't see what the problem is? Say I buy a copy of software at a store and give it to you. Is this illegal?

    Now let say I install it on a computer and give the computer to you. Is this illegal? Did I make any "illegal" copies??




    Yes, if you don't supply the original media when giving this software away and if you retain a copy for yourself.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting caught because it's VERY hard to trace and, frankly, nobody gives a sh_it about a single copy on some computer.



    One single copy on one computer done 100,000 times is 100,000 stolen single copies.
  • Reply 4 of 10
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    I didn't see Fahlman cast any judgements and he answered the question factually and correctly.



    The other pain with buying a computer stuffed with software and no install discs is what to do if the drive goes on you. A lot of eBay sellers try to justify a higher price (or just differentiate their machine from the others listed)by selling the computer with a bunch of installed apps and it just doesn't seem worth it in the long run.
  • Reply 5 of 10
    braidibraidi Posts: 12member
    Ok, yeah I think I understand that it is not legal. They, however explained that they had a friend who works at an Apple Store and they say there is nothing wrong with putting it on multiple computers as long as they don't give you burnt copies. But, that doesn't make sense because that is like saying I can open up LimeWire and download a 1,000 dollar program and use it legally, as long as I don't have a burnt copy of it. I went ahead and got the computer anyway and I will have some stuff to play with for awhile, but I would eventually buy my own copies and delete the old ones because the ones on there are a bit outdated anyway. Thank's for the help!
  • Reply 6 of 10
    silversilver Posts: 34member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bancho

    The other pain with buying a computer stuffed with software and no install discs is what to do if the drive goes on you. A lot of eBay sellers try to justify a higher price (or just differentiate their machine from the others listed)by selling the computer with a bunch of installed apps and it just doesn't seem worth it in the long run. [/B]



    ... and that's exactly what Microsoft did (does?) with Office. They sold you a computer 'with Office installed', but without an installer cd. One computer crash later you had no Office anymore ...

    The same applies a bit for Windows itself. I don't know how it is now, but when you bought a (cheap) PC, they only gave you a 'repair disk' or something. But you couldn't do a fresh install of the Windows OS with it.
  • Reply 7 of 10
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    First of all EULA is not a law of any sort and whatever it says there may or may not be even legal regardless of whether you agree to it or not. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!



    Second of all, does it mention anything about the possibility of loosing the original media? Is this a crime according to Apple is well?



    If you read the law, you will see that the user, regardless of EULA, has a right to make at least 1 backup copy of the purchased software and this copy can be substituted for the original copy in all subsequent transactions.

    Additionally, the law states that if the person acted in good faith (in this case meaning that you do not have direct evidence to believe that this software is stolen), then, regardless of EULA, you may purchase it.

    From what you told us, I don't see why you would think that the software is stolen.
  • Reply 8 of 10
    The thing is ... if you actually read the "agreements"...



    When you buy software at CompUSA or wherever, you are not buying the code ... you don't end up "owning" that copy of the software ... they give you a disk with the cde on it, because you need that to use the program (or you can download it) ... but what you are actually PAYING for is a license ... the right to USE that software. The software/code doesn't belong to you.



    If you give that software (via disk, download or however) to someone else... the license does not necessarily go with it... so they are using it illegally. If you DO transfer the license to use it to the new person, then YOU no longer have a license to use the software... if you continue to use it, it's illegal.



    so ... you CAN transfer the software ... but only one of the parties can have the "license" to use it. So if you are given the impression by the seller that he is giving up his rights to the software license, then you can assume it is yours to use.



    And yes, EULA's are legally binding ... if you don't agree with them, then just don't use the product/software. If you use the software, by default you have agreed to the ELUA. Local laws may override claims to warranty and useability of the product, but ownership/licensure is always subject to the EULA. Bootlegging software is NO DIFFERENT than shoplifting at Wal-Mart. whether or not you want to do it is up to you
  • Reply 9 of 10
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    Quote:

    And yes, EULA's are legally binding ... if you don't agree with them, then just don't use the product/software.



    Legally binding doesn't mean it's the law. For example, if EULA says that you can not make a backup copy, then it is breaking the law and the EULA is void.



    Technically speaking, any scheme to prevent you from making a backup copy violates DMCA. Nobody has taken this court yet, but it's only a matter of time.
  • Reply 10 of 10
    fahlmanfahlman Posts: 694member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Legally binding doesn't mean it's the law. For example, if EULA says that you can not make a backup copy, then it is breaking the law and the EULA is void.



    Technically speaking, any scheme to prevent you from making a backup copy violates DMCA. Nobody has taken this court yet, but it's only a matter of time.




    A little off track, aren't you. This EULA does allow you to make a backup. Anyway, stealing is stealing. Plain and simple.
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