Merom speed question

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Merom is supposed to deliver a 20% performance boost over Yonah at the same power usage. But what does it mean exactly?



It looks like Merom will the clock speed of the current Core Duo. So where does the 20% boost go?



-Will it be 20% faster at the same clock speed?

-Will it use 20% less power?

-A little of each?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    mystmyst Posts: 112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    Merom is supposed to deliver a 20% performance boost over Yonah at the same power usage. But what does it mean exactly?



    It looks like Merom will the clock speed of the current Core Duo. So where does the 20% boost go?



    -Will it be 20% faster at the same clock speed?

    -Will it use 20% less power?

    -A little of each?




    They directly mean power wise a merom using "x" watts of power will give 20% more power as a yonah at "x" (the same) watts.



    This all goes back to the Performance Per Watt measure. I believe it looks that Meroms gains will be in:



    - FSB performance

    - "La Grande" (Aha! )

    - 64Bit Addition



    I suppose you got this from one of the Intel Roadmap sites so look at the improvements there and wiki the ones you don't understand. I'm sure the 3 I listed are important [well the La Grande one I don't know about, but it's mentioned a lot] so that must be where power consumption is going. The 2.33 GHz limit seen by Merom will likely go up over 2.5 by launch (it's modified architecture should allow it).
  • Reply 2 of 13
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Just means at the same clock speed with the new Core architecture it performs around 20% better than Yonah. Given the improvements made this should be a surprise to nobody.
  • Reply 3 of 13
    mystmyst Posts: 112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    Just means at the same clock speed with the new Core architecture it performs around 20% better than Yonah. Given the improvements made this should be a surprise to nobody.



    Well, I disagree as it doesn't mention clock speed only power consumption. As I said in the post prior too yours, I believe this is more of the Performance Per Watt measure they've been using for laptop chips. Probably it's part of the "clockspeed isn't that relevant" initiative.
  • Reply 4 of 13
    boemaneboemane Posts: 311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Myst

    Well, I disagree as it doesn't mention clock speed only power consumption. As I said in the post prior too yours, I believe this is more of the Performance Per Watt measure they've been using for laptop chips. Probably it's part of the "clockspeed isn't that relevant" initiative.



    I think its more like so:



    At, say,. 2Ghz the Yonah uses 50W (numbers are totally made up). But at 2GHz the Meron only uses 40W. So that means at the same performance the Meron runs cooler and uses less power. So the Meron has a higher performance per watt.



    It might also mean that at 50W the merom gives 20% more performance, whatever they measure performance with.
  • Reply 5 of 13
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Saying performance is just performance per watt is a bit of a misnomer or at least lacking. It would be possible for them to build a 5W TDP processor that may have better performance per watt but nowhere near the total performance of Yonah.



    If we're referring to this slide:







    Then the point of merom is they gained performance, SPECint_Rate to be specific, without drawing more power.



    That is not performance per watt and they are mentioning it keeps constant power. In fact the max rated power usage is actually slightly higher in merom, the average is the same though. In fact at the IDF for a presentation they literally pulled out a current Core Duo, put in merom and showed a 25% increase on a benchmark, a Quake 4 time demo for this one, with everything else remaining the same, including battery life.



    Similarly Conroe improves performance by 40% and energy go down by 40% for a total increase in performance/watt of roughly 130%.



    What merom gains on current Core Duos is just a better architecture that allows more to be executed each clock cycle.
  • Reply 6 of 13
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    In fact at the IDF for a presentation they literally pulled out a current Core Duo, put in merom and showed a 25% increase on a benchmark, a Quake 4 time demo for this one, with everything else remaining the same, including battery life.



    ...



    What merom gains on current Core Duos is just a better architecture that allows more to be executed each clock cycle.




    So at same Ghz, same power consumption and 20-25% increased speed?
  • Reply 7 of 13
    nauticalnautical Posts: 109member
    The way I read it is that at the same power usage you get 20 % more performance. Which means that the 20 % more performance could come from an increase in clockspeed at the same power usage.



    So if Yonah gets, say 100 points of performance at 2 GHz with 20 watts of power, that could mean that Merom will deliver 120 points of performance at say 2.5 GHz with 20 watts of power.
  • Reply 8 of 13
    You seem to be focused too much on the processor's frequency, when improvements in other areas are better. Merom seems good (it is) but the real innovation will lay in its future truly dedicated Centrino 4 platform, codenamed Santa Rosa:



    The current Centrino 3 Napa platform for Yonah will just be updated a bit for Merom release (Napa64) this year.

    But in early 2007 (by March), Merom will gain the Crestine chipset and its Santa Rosa Centrino 4 platform: 800 MHz FSB, a DirectX10 compatible GMA, and wifi 802.11n with speeds up to 600 Mbps (G/A 200 Mbps). Say Hello to Airport HD.
  • Reply 9 of 13
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,220member
    Well it makes total sense that Merom performs faster at the same clock than a Yonah chip. Yonah and the Netburst P4 chips are 3-issue cores. Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are now 4-issue cores so we have an immediate benefit there.
  • Reply 10 of 13
    thttht Posts: 3,108member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    So at same Ghz, same power consumption and 20-25% increased speed?



    Yes.



    A 2 GHz Merom should have 20% more performance than a 2 GHz Yonah while having the same power consumption.



    It's doubtful that Merom will have higher MHz than a Yonah at launch. We should see a 2.33 GHz Yonah and 2.33 GHz Merom when Merom comes out. The 2.33 Merom CPU should be 20% faster than and have the same power consumption as the Yonah CPU. So, Merom would be like a 2.8 GHz Yonah in performance, but like a 2.33 GHz Yonah in power consumption.



    It may be that the Merom/Napa64 system won't have the same power consumption as a Yonah/Napa system, and that Intel was talking about a Merom/Santa Rosa system, but it shouldn't a be a huge difference in power consumption between the two core logic chipsets.



    I think the odds are pretty good for Apple shipping MBP Merom systems at the same MHz as the existing MBP Yonah systems at the time.
  • Reply 11 of 13
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    Performance gains will be larger than 20% per watt for SSE2/3 and 64bit optimized code because of the extra registers and the wider architecture.



    Merom is rumored to have a TDP of 34W, up from 31W for Yonah. So at the same clockspeed, gains will be above 20% in general and much greater for some codes.
  • Reply 12 of 13
    zandroszandros Posts: 537member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Cosmos 1999



    800 MHz FSB, a DirectX10 compatible GMA, and wifi 802.11n with speeds up to 600 Mbps (G/A 200 Mbps). Say Hello to Airport HD.




    And we hope for WiMAX, don't we? Does DX10 affect the Mac though?
  • Reply 13 of 13
    thttht Posts: 3,108member
    Early reports using Merom engineering samples indicate that it is indeed 15 to 20% faster per clock than Yonah and Athlon 64, and is pin compatible with Yonah to boot. One can upgrade Intel Mac mini, iMac or MBP with them, assuming there aren't any software incompatibilities.



    2 GHz Merom ~= 2.4 GHz Yonah ~= 2.4 GHz Athlon X2
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