Blunder in Apple marketing speak...
from HERE
For this to be true, OS X would have to ignore/refuse ICMP packets (think pings), and would not be able to use arp ; meaning it would be pretty damn hard to get
DHCP to run...
I dont think that this is intentional misleading on Apples part, they just need to assign someone who knows a gosh-darn thing about technology to the ad team.
Quote:
Mac OS X was designed with security in mind. Windows just wasn’t built to bear the onslaught of attacks it suffers every day. A Mac offers a built-in firewall, doesn’t advertise its existence on the Net, and isn’t compromised within an hour of being turned on.
Mac OS X was designed with security in mind. Windows just wasn’t built to bear the onslaught of attacks it suffers every day. A Mac offers a built-in firewall, doesn’t advertise its existence on the Net, and isn’t compromised within an hour of being turned on.
For this to be true, OS X would have to ignore/refuse ICMP packets (think pings), and would not be able to use arp ; meaning it would be pretty damn hard to get
DHCP to run...
I dont think that this is intentional misleading on Apples part, they just need to assign someone who knows a gosh-darn thing about technology to the ad team.
Comments
Originally posted by Electric Monk
I think he's complaining more about the marketing guy that noticed the Sharing/Firewall/Advanced setting for stealth mode and didn't know the limitations of the feature.
what I am saying is that the ad copy borders on an out-and-out lie...you are telling me NO ONE with even the most basic networking know-how inside of apple found that claim to be a little odd??
Originally posted by Ireland
This is true on apple's part; they don't go around advertising that the Mac has a built in Firewall out of the box, on the net. What's the problem?
If you had skimmed the Wikipedia articals that I linked to, you would likly know that Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) is used for a client* to tell the switch** that it is connected to that physical port, and its MAC address. THEN, the layer three DHCP magic can happen
*think desktop computer for simplicity, although a client can be anything that is 802.3 and/or 802.11 capable
**think DSL modem or home "router"
Originally posted by Kickaha
a_greer, if the ARP isn't passed on past the switch, then it never reaches 'the Net'.
You beat me to it, damn. With arp you can resolve MAC address, not ip address, so unless the hacker is in your local network, he doesn't do anything with your MAC address. Most people are nowadays connected to NAT switch and thru that to world outside, that also blocks your MAC address leaving your intranet. Also Internet by definition is a collection of local area networks inter connected, so in that respect that add is in line.
Originally posted by Kickaha
a_greer, if the ARP isn't passed on past the switch, then it never reaches 'the Net'.
You got me...in my haste I forgot to diferenciate between layer 2 and 3 addressing...full layer two (arp) link must be established in order for the layer three addressing (ip) can happen.
and yea, there is a local arp table on each client on a purly switched network, sorry about the mis-understanding...no more replying while in a hurry to leave.
but the fact remains; the copy saying "Mac dont advertisde their existance to the net" cant be true, I meaqn it is common sence.
How *does* a Mac advertise its existence to the Net?
Not a LAN, the Net.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Alright, provide a counter-proof.
How *does* a Mac advertise its existence to the Net?
Not a LAN, the Net.
Mac -> cable modem...Mac ARPs, says "I AM HERE!" cable modem says to ISP DHCP "give me an address for this client"...
also, replying to ping attempts would advertise ones existance to the net.
Also, the whole point seems mis guided on Apples part, the problem with windows isnt that it "advertises its self to the net" it is that once on the net, people with malis can run code with WAY too much privelage RIGHT FROM THE BROWSER!!!
Also, if ARPing and IP resolution dont count as "advertising presentce on the internetwork" then what exactly does? what does windows do automaticly in this regaurd that Apple doesnt; both manage ARP, both handle DCHP (as a client or a server), both automaticly sync the clock periodicly, both check for updates over the net automaticly, so how exactly does windows "advertise" its self more than OSX?
Windows' problem is insain rights and privelage managment, and the whole registery thing; the networking elements as far as the lowest three layers of OSI are concerned are almost direct copies of the unix implementation, right down to hosts being stored in /windows/system32/.../etc directory
Originally posted by a_greer
Mac -> cable modem...Mac ARPs, says "I AM HERE!" cable modem says to ISP DHCP "give me an address for this client"...
Aaaaaaand it stops there. Not 'the Net'.
Secondly, my cable modem, for example, does its OWN DHCP to the ISP, and my computers can go up and down all they want behind it, and that's never advertised to even the ISP.
This is the whole point - an ARP *STOPS* at the first switch. Inside my house, that's the cable modem. From my cable modem, that's the switch at the ISP. There is no 'advertising' to the net at whole in this process.
also, replying to ping attempts would advertise ones existance to the net.
Yes, which is precisely what Stealth Mode prevents.
Also, the whole point seems mis guided on Apples part, the problem with windows isnt that it "advertises its self to the net" it is that once on the net, people with malis can run code with WAY too much privelage RIGHT FROM THE BROWSER!!!
Well that's one way. Another is responding to a variety of Windows-only command protocols which until recently were left open and available by default. Think of them as ICMP ping + a direct path to running malicious code.
I am unclear on this next point, so if anyone has any more info, please share it, but... as I understand it, Windows contains several 'chatty' protocols that actively ping out to advertise their existence, much like the old AppleTalk would periodically ping out to a network (still not 'the net', of course). This may be what they're talking about.
Also, if ARPing and IP resolution dont count as "advertising presentce on the internetwork" then what exactly does? what does windows do automaticly in this regaurd that Apple doesnt; both automaticly sync the clock periodicly, both check for updates over the net automaticly, so how exactly does windows "advertise" its self more than OSX?
See above.
Windows' problem is insain rights and privelage managment, and the whole registery thing; the networking elements as far as the lowest three layers of OSI are concerned are almost direct copies of the unix implementation, right down to hosts being stored in /windows/system32/.../etc directory
The ports that are (were) left open, and what they allow remote users to do, however, is quite different.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Well that's one way. Another is responding to a variety of Windows-only command protocols which until recently were left open and available by default. Think of them as ICMP ping + a direct path to running malicious code.
I am unclear on this next point, so if anyone has any more info, please share it, but... as I understand it, Windows contains several 'chatty' protocols that actively ping out to advertise their existence, much like the old AppleTalk would periodically ping out to a network (still not 'the net', of course). This may be what they're talking about.
Windows also uses infamous UPnP, if thats not great potential for advertising presence on the internet then what does? Just makes writing spyware and trojans so much easier.
Originally posted by Project2501
Windows also uses infamous UPnP, if thats not great potential for advertising presence on the internet then what does? Just makes writing spyware and trojans so much easier.
FUD.
UPnP only works for applications that already run on the computer. It doesn't let machines on the Internet discover your computer unless you specifically have an app running that allows that. So, unless you manually install a trojan…
…can you see where this is going?