wouldn't the DV Expo be a prime spot to introduce a new technology such as Gigawire? Any thoughts on wether or not there will be announcements of this magnitude at the DV Expo?
Unless it's backwards compatible with Firewire you won't see it. FW has finally built up enough momentum that the arguement of USB 2.0 vs Firewire is for the most part moot. FW is the way to connect your small Multimedia device. If Gigawire was proprietary then it would do nothing but set Apple advancements in Firewire back.
People are saying that the current spec is even enough to handle HDTV signals real time, but I dunno. MiniDV needs about 25MB/sec, I think that HDTV needs more than twice the bandwidth. Perhaps they mean compressed when they say it. However, the cameras that might record in these ultra high resolutions would certainly require more bandwidth prior to MPEG-2 compression. I think 800-1600Mbps (100-200MBps) of backward compatible bandwidth would be just the ticket for these people. Apple wants this vid-editing market, they'll probably bump up the spec on this before anyone else. -- maybe not on the consumer machines --
Imagine having a firewire-RAID array that you can plug in to achieve heretofore exclusively SCSI speeds. :eek: I know SCSI will at that point be at 320MBps but 100-200 ought to be more than enough for most video editing tasks.
<strong>.... MiniDV needs about 25MB/sec, I think that HDTV needs more than twice the bandwidth. <snip>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is incorrect. You mean about 25Mbits per second which would correlate into about 2.4MBps. Actually the MiniDV rate is about a constant 3.5-3.6 Megabytes per second. Remember Apple demo'd Final Cut Pro streaming live DV footage over Gigabit Ethernet. Firewire will be fine in it's current and future implementations for standard miniDV
<strong>People are saying that the current spec is even enough to handle HDTV signals real time, but I dunno. MiniDV needs about 25MB/sec, I think that HDTV needs more than twice the bandwidth. Perhaps they mean compressed when they say it. However, the cameras that might record in these ultra high resolutions would certainly require more bandwidth prior to MPEG-2 compression. I think 800-1600Mbps (100-200MBps) of backward compatible bandwidth would be just the ticket for these people. Apple wants this vid-editing market, they'll probably bump up the spec on this before anyone else. -- maybe not on the consumer machines --
Imagine having a firewire-RAID array that you can plug in to achieve heretofore exclusively SCSI speeds. :eek: I know SCSI will at that point be at 320MBps but 100-200 ought to be more than enough for most video editing tasks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mistubishi already has HDTV TVs and recorders that connect to each other via firewire so bandwidth obviously isn't a problem yet
Full resolution HDTV (1080i) is about 120-125 MB/sec
The best way that gigawire will be used is to xfer DV50 footage from Panasonics DVC Pro line of cameras. This will give way to professionals using this xfer method over say SDI conection from their DigiDeta, DVC Pro, and BetaCam SX decks.
I find it hard that Apples Gigawire will replace HD SDI, as these options cost $15k from vendors like Pinnacle Systems, and Avid. Gigawire does not have the bandwith, i dont belive.
[quote] I saw a wireless tech on cdnet.com that was streaming an uncompressed HDTV signal wirelessly. I think it was that new 8011.1g/a 54MB/sec standard. <hr></blockquote>you dont seem to understand... uncompressed HD is 125MB/sec it is not possible to send that over 802.11g
Data rate for DV is 25mbits/sec which (with the audio component) equates to 3.6MB/sec.
Data rate for 'broadcast quality' DVPro50/D9 (Digital S) is 50mbits/sec which equates (with audio) to about 7.5MB/sec. Panasonic/JVC will not license the DV50 codec so you won't see this over Firewire until they decide to do it.
Uncompressed Standard digital video equates to 18 to 36MB/sec (depending on YUV/RGB/RGBA etc.)
Uncompressed HiDef equates to 125 to 150MB/sec.
MPEG encoded SD and HD (which CAN be transmitted over Firewire/Gigawire) range between 6mbits (eg sattellite SD) to 100 mbits/second (HD storage)
Sorry, but um, nobody knows what Gigawire is. We can't assume it has anything to do with firewire. An article at architosh thinks it's to cluster G5 together.
The trademark info suggests it has to do with wireless and cellular communication. Sounds like its a service. Gigawire, the wireless internet service. Still, it bothers me because Gigawire is the perfect name for a 1000Mb+ followup to FireWire.
[quote]IEEE 1394b allows extensions to 800Mbit/sec., 1.6Gbit/sec. and 3.2Gbit/sec., all over copper wire. It supports long-distance transfers to 100 meters over a variety of media: CAT-5 unshielded cable at 100Mbit/sec., existing plastic optical fiber at 200Mbits/sec., next-generation plastic optical fiber at 400Mbit/sec. and 50-micron mulitmode glass optical fiber at up to 3.2Gbit/sec. The improved speed and distance capabilities of 1394b result from two major improvements: overlapped arbitration and advanced data encoding.
The highly efficient bus arbitration scheme, known as BOSS (Bus Owner Supervisor Selector), implements overlapped, pipelined arbitration, so the arbitration protocol runs in parallel with data transmissions. This is different from the 1394-1995 and 1394a legacy versions, both of which alternate between data transmission and arbitration.The data encoding improvements are based on the 8B10B codes used by Fibre Channel and Gigabit Ethernet and add more robust control codes and scrambling of both data and control symbols. This scrambling results in much lower average emissions?more than 20dB below unscrambled codes. Together, the two improvements are called the beta mode of operation to distinguish it from the 1394-1995/1394a legacy mode.<hr></blockquote>
Comments
Imagine having a firewire-RAID array that you can plug in to achieve heretofore exclusively SCSI speeds. :eek: I know SCSI will at that point be at 320MBps but 100-200 ought to be more than enough for most video editing tasks.
<strong>.... MiniDV needs about 25MB/sec, I think that HDTV needs more than twice the bandwidth. <snip>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is incorrect. You mean about 25Mbits per second which would correlate into about 2.4MBps. Actually the MiniDV rate is about a constant 3.5-3.6 Megabytes per second. Remember Apple demo'd Final Cut Pro streaming live DV footage over Gigabit Ethernet. Firewire will be fine in it's current and future implementations for standard miniDV
<a href="http://home.att.net/~desktopvideo/rvd-faq.htm#2.2"; target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~desktopvideo/rvd-faq.htm#2.2</a>;
apple_otaku
<strong>People are saying that the current spec is even enough to handle HDTV signals real time, but I dunno. MiniDV needs about 25MB/sec, I think that HDTV needs more than twice the bandwidth. Perhaps they mean compressed when they say it. However, the cameras that might record in these ultra high resolutions would certainly require more bandwidth prior to MPEG-2 compression. I think 800-1600Mbps (100-200MBps) of backward compatible bandwidth would be just the ticket for these people. Apple wants this vid-editing market, they'll probably bump up the spec on this before anyone else. -- maybe not on the consumer machines --
Imagine having a firewire-RAID array that you can plug in to achieve heretofore exclusively SCSI speeds. :eek: I know SCSI will at that point be at 320MBps but 100-200 ought to be more than enough for most video editing tasks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mistubishi already has HDTV TVs and recorders that connect to each other via firewire so bandwidth obviously isn't a problem yet
The best way that gigawire will be used is to xfer DV50 footage from Panasonics DVC Pro line of cameras. This will give way to professionals using this xfer method over say SDI conection from their DigiDeta, DVC Pro, and BetaCam SX decks.
I find it hard that Apples Gigawire will replace HD SDI, as these options cost $15k from vendors like Pinnacle Systems, and Avid. Gigawire does not have the bandwith, i dont belive.
Data rate for DV is 25mbits/sec which (with the audio component) equates to 3.6MB/sec.
Data rate for 'broadcast quality' DVPro50/D9 (Digital S) is 50mbits/sec which equates (with audio) to about 7.5MB/sec. Panasonic/JVC will not license the DV50 codec so you won't see this over Firewire until they decide to do it.
Uncompressed Standard digital video equates to 18 to 36MB/sec (depending on YUV/RGB/RGBA etc.)
Uncompressed HiDef equates to 125 to 150MB/sec.
MPEG encoded SD and HD (which CAN be transmitted over Firewire/Gigawire) range between 6mbits (eg sattellite SD) to 100 mbits/second (HD storage)
Vince (its my job, mam...)
My point in my last post is that full uncompressed HD could not be transmited over 802.11g
but if it is mpeg encoded, then yes it could. But that is not uncompressed.
from: <a href="http://www.e-insite.net/electronicnews/index.asp?layout=article&articleId=CA91031"; target="_blank">www.e-insite.net/electronicnews/index.asp?layout=arti cle&articleId=CA91031</a>
[quote]IEEE 1394b allows extensions to 800Mbit/sec., 1.6Gbit/sec. and 3.2Gbit/sec., all over copper wire. It supports long-distance transfers to 100 meters over a variety of media: CAT-5 unshielded cable at 100Mbit/sec., existing plastic optical fiber at 200Mbits/sec., next-generation plastic optical fiber at 400Mbit/sec. and 50-micron mulitmode glass optical fiber at up to 3.2Gbit/sec. The improved speed and distance capabilities of 1394b result from two major improvements: overlapped arbitration and advanced data encoding.
The highly efficient bus arbitration scheme, known as BOSS (Bus Owner Supervisor Selector), implements overlapped, pipelined arbitration, so the arbitration protocol runs in parallel with data transmissions. This is different from the 1394-1995 and 1394a legacy versions, both of which alternate between data transmission and arbitration.The data encoding improvements are based on the 8B10B codes used by Fibre Channel and Gigabit Ethernet and add more robust control codes and scrambling of both data and control symbols. This scrambling results in much lower average emissions?more than 20dB below unscrambled codes. Together, the two improvements are called the beta mode of operation to distinguish it from the 1394-1995/1394a legacy mode.<hr></blockquote>
-Bill
[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: zebu ]</p>
[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: apple_otaku ]</p>