Safari Finder Integration
I think it would be great if Apple made Safari a Finder component instead of a seperate application all together in Leopard.
Both the Finder and Safari have matured to the point where both interfaces are nearly identical with the exception of 3 or 4 buttons. Given the increasing amount of files accessed via the web and remotely, advanced and basic users alike would benefit from a single app that could handle internet and local paths.
Just about every other OS has already done this: Linux, Windows, etc... I think Apple should as well, although with much superior tools.
Both the Finder and Safari have matured to the point where both interfaces are nearly identical with the exception of 3 or 4 buttons. Given the increasing amount of files accessed via the web and remotely, advanced and basic users alike would benefit from a single app that could handle internet and local paths.
Just about every other OS has already done this: Linux, Windows, etc... I think Apple should as well, although with much superior tools.
Comments
Apple has in the recent years, most of the time, decided against all-in-one applications. One example of this is the separation of Mail, Address Book, iCal and iSync. They share information through common APIs, but they are separate applications. Likewise, AppleWorks is being split into separate iWork applications.
So, I don't see a Finder-Safari merge happening. What advantage would that bring? And think of the disadvantages: a severely cluttered UI trying to accomodate for two largely different functionalities.
You could make up file playlists for burning easily as well as catalogue your movies and you could edit metadata more easily.
I wouldn't mind seeing safari integrated into that too. After all, the itunes music store is integrated in itunes. However, some people will get upset that Safari is tied to the Finder when they prefer Firefox or whatever. And people will also complain that they are being like M$ where you can't remove their browser from the system.
Of course they might get round it by packaging it as a filesystem browser that happens to have web browing functionality.
The big problem I see is that apps are individual because there are things they do differently. The Finder lets you sort music how you want but itunes prefers to keep a library, same with iphoto. Safari and Mail are probably the only apps that could be tied together with the Finder and it may indeed help the Finder's networking capability.
Well, we should find out in a week or so.
Originally posted by ngmapple
I think it would be great if Apple made Safari a Finder component instead of a seperate application all together in Leopard.
...
First off, I kinda like having 12 or 13 different browsers which I can use at my whim. Secondly and more important, this is contrary to the design and philosophy of the Mac since 1984. Now that the Mac uses a preemptive multitasking OS and GUI, there is no need to do this. To the contrary, combining the web browser with the general file browser would be courting disaster. Microsoft has been trying to convert its web browser into a general OS file browser for more than a decade with generally disasterous results. Its most recent attempt to do this had to be reversed under the deafening screams about security of the old browser. I don't expect any security issues caused by such integration, but it would make my Mac less Mac-like. In the end, that would be a disaster indeed.
The internet is becoming a more and more important part of the general OS environment and those like myself that work more often with files on remote networks than with local files, this just makes sense. I also like to see the full path of the directories I'm working with be they on the web, LAN or local hard disk.
I'm certainly not trying to prevent anyone from using firefox, opera or netscape and no way would this.
In terms of changes to the Finder GUI, I'm simply looking to add a URL bar (which could be hidden by the users preference if so desired) and 2 or 3 nav buttons to the finder. That's really all that would be needed to allow for Safari's functionality.
I can understand why those that don't use a lot of remote files might find this pointless, but as more and more of us work more frequenty with remote files over http or ftp, sftp, etc... it makes life a lot easier.
Originally posted by ngmapple
I just don't think it makes much sense for me to have to switch between Safari and Finder depending on where the files I want are.
Since when does a web browser represent files? You don't go to the bathroom to look for food, do you?
I also like to see the full path of the directories I'm working with be they on the web, LAN or local hard disk.
Why?
In terms of changes to the Finder GUI, I'm simply looking to add a URL bar (which could be hidden by the users preference if so desired) and 2 or 3 nav buttons to the finder. That's really all that would be needed to allow for Safari's functionality.
Oh, and bookmarks. And a history. And caching. And cookies. And tabs. And, y'know, all those other things a browser does that Finder doesn't do.
A five-minute job, I'm sure.
I can understand why those that don't use a lot of remote files might find this pointless, but as more and more of us work more frequenty with remote files over http or ftp, sftp, etc... it makes life a lot easier.
Finder can already handle remote files over HTTP, FTP and SFTP.
Finder can already handle remote files over HTTP, FTP and SFTP.
This is another reason to add a URL bar, instead of having to map an HTTP, FTP or SFTP directory that you plan to access once, why not just punch in the remote path/URL grab the files you need then punch in a local path and work with local files. And I'd find bookmarks to be a usefull finder feature as well, again no one would have to use these. I'm merely proposing we take the capibilities of Safari and bring that into the finder, I wouldn't be suggesting this if it would lead to a cluttered interface.
In any case think about how much more sense it would make if one stores there files on a NAS device.
Also, I don't think Finder tabs would be such a bad thing in my opinion. No one has to use them if they don't want to though.
Originally posted by ngmapple
This is another reason to add a URL bar
Shift-Cmd-G.
instead of having to map an HTTP, FTP or SFTP directory that you plan to access once, why not just punch in the remote path/URL grab the files you need then punch in a local path and work with local files.
I agree that mapping sometimes feels superfluous.
I wouldn't be suggesting this if it would lead to a cluttered interface.
Could? It inevitably would.
In any case think about how much more sense it would make if one stores there files on a NAS device.
No, because you'd want that locally mounted, and because you wouldn't handle that in a browser regardless.
The thing is, I don't know if it would need an integration of any apps at all. Somebody just needs to invent an app that docks windows together. Have one app that you can create a new tab in and then open a Finder/Safari/mail window in that tab. Each tab can have a row of sub-tabs so that the Safari tab can have it's own set of open pages.
Unfortunately, the http protocol isn't good for really interacting with the local and remote sites.
For example, copying text off a web page is an exercise in frustration. Both columns of a PDF copy at once, the fonts are whacko, it doesn't copy the formatting, just a total mess. That's because it was designed as hypertext (van Dam, early 1970s, I studied under him) and not something to be edited or interacted with except for viewing.
If I wanted to paste a paragraph AND the URL from, say, David Pogue's blog and post it here, I have to Google him, click that, copy the paragraph, switch back to here, paste it, switch back to Pogue, copy the URL, paste that, and God forbid I want some formatting in my post - we are back to 1982 and WordStar. Typing in formatting codes is ARCHAIC. But I have actually seen people object to fixing this by saying idiotic things like "it doesn't hurt people to learn a little HTML".
There is virtually no integration of the web and the local machine - it's almost like printing out something and then scanning it back in. This does not mean that the actual applications need to be merged - just streamline the interaction with TASKS in mind.
Want to upload an image to a cheap-ass site like this one that doesn't want to pay for storage of images? What a nightmare. I have had to script the simple task of uploading to my ftp server and putting the URL of the image on the clipboard in one click. I can't believe this isn't in the OS, not even with dot-mac. Why isn't there a "upload this file to dot-mac and put its URL on the damn clipboard?"
(Use DSLReports - they don't make you use a third party file storage service for images).
Or even better, why can't I serve the image right off my local machine? Rhetorical question, of course - it's DHCP that screws that up.
Apple's iApps do a good job of talking to each other, but none of them talks to the web very well. There is virtually no way to script "get me this piece of data off this web page" unless the site has an XML page. Even then, there is no built-in way to ask for the data - you have to use curl or scripting.
I just think we are way overdue for a marked improvement in moving data to and from the web - it's going to take a bright idea to do it right - I think it's the Next Big Thing. Of course, if http had had the foresight to envision that people might want to do something with the data that is served up besides read it on the screen, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Try printing a web page. LOL.
-Add a path/URL bar to the Finder window (this is the most obvious). Allow users to hide this if it bothers them.
-Replace the 3 view mode buttons in the Finder window with a drop down view mode button to save space and keep the interface clean.
-As in Safari, add the option of displaying a favorites bar, this could be used to not only remember favorite websites but local locations as well now that it's integrated into the Finder. Move the "+" add bookmark button into this bookmark bar itself to help maintain a clean interface.
-Add the reload/refresh button from Safari to the finder.
You end up with only 5 primary buttons in the Finder window, yet you have the full power of the Finder and Safari in one place. Anybody want a mockup of this?
Originally posted by Chucker
*cries*
I doubly agree. Fixing the Finder doesn't include merging other applications within as some hacked embedded solution. We don't need a behemoth monolithic end-all-be-all Finder to stare at and use.
Originally posted by Chucker
*cries*
with another schlub.
Originally posted by Marvin
One thing I could see it being useful for is saving files. I always have to drag to the Finder and it doesn't work very well. However, if I had a file browser tab open then I could drop the files onto the tab.
The thing is, I don't know if it would need an integration of any apps at all. Somebody just needs to invent an app that docks windows together. Have one app that you can create a new tab in and then open a Finder/Safari/mail window in that tab. Each tab can have a row of sub-tabs so that the Safari tab can have it's own set of open pages.
You can save files directly where you want in safari, pushing option changes save to desktop to save as..
EDIT: Now, a hide-able location bar under Finder is a good idea. Sometimes I am looking for files that I've forgotten the location of, so I find them with spotlight, but still can't easily see where it is, because there's no button equivalent to "cd .." or "Up One Folder". Keep in mind there probably is a way to go up one folder, but it's also because I am new to the Mac platform. However, aren't they supposed to "just work"?
There's my two cents, anyway.
Originally posted by Zachary Hinchliffe
EDIT: Now, a hide-able location bar under Finder is a good idea. Sometimes I am looking for files that I've forgotten the location of, so I find them with spotlight, but still can't easily see where it is, because there's no button equivalent to "cd .." or "Up One Folder". Keep in mind there probably is a way to go up one folder, but it's also because I am new to the Mac platform. However, aren't they supposed to "just work"?
Yes this is exactly what I'm looking for, command line users can through a pwd command and get the path, however this has been absent from the Finder GUI. And I agree the feature should not be force fed, users should have the option of hiding it.
I differ from you a little bit on the integration side, adding safari functionality to the Finder interface in the way that I've described would preserve 95% of the finders look and feel. I myself am a part time firefox user, so in no way should this prevent one from launching an alternate browser.
Microsoft did a poor browser / OS integration, so those of you using that as a model of my idea should understand that this would be far better solution.
Originally posted by ngmapple
Yes this is exactly what I'm looking for, command line users can through a pwd command and get the path, however this has been absent from the Finder GUI. And I agree the feature should not be force fed, users should have the option of hiding it.
I differ from you a little bit on the integration side, adding safari functionality to the Finder interface in the way that I've described would preserve 95% of the finders look and feel. I myself am a part time firefox user, so in no way should this prevent one from launching an alternate browser.
Microsoft did a poor browser / OS integration, so those of you using that as a model of my idea should understand that this would be far better solution.
command click that folder name in finders top bar, and it shows you path to that folder.
Originally posted by Zachary Hinchliffe
True, but it's unwieldy, may confuse first time users, and still doesn't allow you to go to whatever folder you please.
Then of course, you have to have the path drop down button
into the (expanded) Finder window at top.
-->Go to Finder-->Go to top menubar item "View"
-->Select "Customize Toolbar" -->Drag item path onto Finder toolbar. Done.
There you go, no prob, sure a no brainer. If you ask me.
BTW, can you explain, why it doesn't allow you to go to whatever folder
you please? Navigate through the list, release mouse click, there you go.
It works for me since system 7, 10 years ago. IIRC.