R&D: Super Secret or Optimistic Dreaming, no middle ground?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
This post is mostly a vent of my frustration with Apple?s super secret R&D. I do see validity to both extremes. On the Apple side no one outside the chosen few at Apple know what?s in the works and when it might hit the market. This seems to work well for them as there are so many of us willing to bite and spread rumors (regardless of how far fetched they might be). On the other hand, there are companies on the Windows side that give a press conference every time someone comes up with a neat idea and a cool CG image. Microsoft?s Vista is a fair example, now something like 18 months behind schedule.



Why can?t there be a happy middle ground? Why couldn?t Steve (or any other CEO) come out and say: ?Here?s what we?re working on?Coming to market next quarter is a? Our R&D is looking into?? No one would have to lie or even exaggerate. Be honest and up front and not kill yourself (and your credibility) rushing stuff (read crap) to market (the UMPC comes to mind).



Am I just completely naive or are there others that feel this way?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SquireM


    This post is mostly a vent of my frustration with Apple?s super secret R&D. I do see validity to both extremes. On the Apple side no one outside the chosen few at Apple know what?s in the works and when it might hit the market. This seems to work well for them as there are so many of us willing to bite and spread rumors (regardless of how far fetched they might be). On the other hand, there are companies on the Windows side that give a press conference every time someone comes up with a neat idea and a cool CG image. Microsoft?s Vista is a fair example, now something like 18 months behind schedule.





    18 months?



    Longhorn was announced November 2001 and expected to be released late 2002, early 2003.



    That's 4 years!
  • Reply 2 of 16
    dotcomctodotcomcto Posts: 130member
    As a 25 year IT veteran and long time IT director, I'd personally like to see an Apple hardware roadmap (minus the iPod and other consumer hardware).



    Just my 2 cents...



    -DotComCTO
  • Reply 3 of 16
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DotComCTO


    As a 25 year IT veteran and long time IT director, I'd personally like to see an Apple hardware roadmap (minus the iPod and other consumer hardware).



    Just my 2 cents...



    -DotComCTO



    I think we've known the roadmap more or less since the switch. Now its reasonably well coupled to Intel for the next couple years since Intel is executing well. Which part is still a mystery? When particular machines gets rev'd?



    There was no way Apple would have put the Intel switch on any long term roadmaps. You'd still have been blindsided.



    Vinea
  • Reply 4 of 16
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SquireM


    This post is mostly a vent of my frustration with Apple?s super secret R&D. ...



    Two things: First, for Apple to preannounce software is merely to give Microsoft extra time to put out a poorly developed knock-off. Second, long lead times are not necessary with Macs. The transitions from System 6 to System 7, 680x0 to PPC, MacOS 8 to MacOS X, and PPC to Intel had ample forewarning. Even at that, there was virtually no disruption. Nor was there any significant disruptions for Apple's unexpected changes. OTOH, changes in Microsoft software can be a huge deal. Companies routinely spend years preparing for these changes after the release.
  • Reply 5 of 16
    Generally, if you announce something too early, then no one will buy your current product. No one in their right mind is gonna grab a PS2 right before the PS3 launch, and people are gonna say - "I'm not getting a PS2 now after mine broke, I'll hold off until the PS3" (example, yes, I know PSes sell well). Apple doesn't mind someone getting nailed with the old model, and having to keep it, because that's more margin for them.
  • Reply 6 of 16
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    The other problem with announcements is if you don't deliver you get sued. Apple got sued & settled over the 3GhZ announcement. I'm sure MS has been repeatedly sued by shareholder groups, it just doesn't get press. One of the facts of business life is if you are successful at any stage of the game you will be repeatedly sued by idiots who either want your money or control of your company (stock), and a very good way to avoid much of the exposure is to minimize comment on future products.
  • Reply 7 of 16
    Yeah Hiro - then there are customer problems. Look at MS with the Software Assurance or whatever. They owed Vista to people by a deadline, and these people are now pretty P'O'ed at them.
  • Reply 8 of 16
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea


    I think we've known the roadmap more or less since the switch. Now its reasonably well coupled to Intel for the next couple years since Intel is executing well. Which part is still a mystery? When particular machines gets rev'd?



    There was no way Apple would have put the Intel switch on any long term roadmaps. You'd still have been blindsided.



    Vinea



    All the more reason Apple should no longer be so FREAKIN ANAL when it comes to providing hardware roadmaps (even if NDA is required) to their large customers and more important POTENTIALLY LARGE NEW CUSTOMERS.



    IBM / HP / DELL and the like have no problems providing roadmaps and now that Apple is using the same hardware all the mystery and mystique that Apple once had (when they pretty much OWNED the information flow WRT the PPC is now just a distant memory). The time of 'cute surprises' should be buried and now Apple should act more like the 'grownup' computer companies.



    Dave
  • Reply 9 of 16
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski


    Generally, if you announce something too early, then no one will buy your current product. No one in their right mind is gonna grab a PS2 right before the PS3 launch, and people are gonna say - "I'm not getting a PS2 now after mine broke, I'll hold off until the PS3" (example, yes, I know PSes sell well). Apple doesn't mind someone getting nailed with the old model, and having to keep it, because that's more margin for them.



    Exactly! I think that's the primary reason. Fear of overstock. Apple in a much smaller company because of their unique OS, they can't be left will all old stuff that'll collect dust like dell or hp can.



    Dell and hp just go budget computer time! And dump it all there in rebates or entry models and whatever. Apple isn't big enough to have thousands upon thousands of pm g5s or mini core solos or something sitting at their feet.



    They don't offer enough models for it to be possible.
  • Reply 10 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DotComCTO


    As a 25 year IT veteran and long time IT director, I'd personally like to see an Apple hardware roadmap (minus the iPod and other consumer hardware).



    Just my 2 cents...



    -DotComCTO







    ya...they should keep consumer stuff secret, but for pros, they should talk about pro hardware while being made
  • Reply 11 of 16
    In terms of general roadmaps IT guys can now pretty well rely on Intel's roadmap. We can see that today, with discussions on which notebooks will get the Meron processors when Apple has sufficient stock. The Mac roadmap is now fairly clear - it is just a matter of which month the new processors will be installed.



    In terms of software, Apple did a pretty good job last week of showing (parts) of where the OS is going. In addition to the Keynote there were tons of sessions (and Apple engineers) for developers to get a solid introduction.



    In terms of other or new products, that is going to be kept under raps until the release date. Steve J has said that the R&D guys developed a PDA, but the company decided not to release it. Discussions of a mid-range headless Mac? No telling, and Apple ain't telling. Same with the iPhone. The simple fact is that the secrecy protects the company against legal problems if a product is pulled before release.



    Personally I enjoy the secrecy and the enjoyment I get when Apple does deliver a new product.
  • Reply 12 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DotComCTO


    As a 25 year IT veteran and long time IT director, I'd personally like to see an Apple hardware roadmap (minus the iPod and other consumer hardware).



    Just my 2 cents...



    -DotComCTO



    I've never been to WWDC, but I would think that's what the NDA stuff there is all about. When Uncle Steve brags about one engineer for every four attendees, I would think you might get *some* questions answered.
  • Reply 13 of 16
    benzenebenzene Posts: 338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luv2playtenis


    ya...they should keep consumer stuff secret, but for pros, they should talk about pro hardware while being made



    Apple doesn't have lots of distinct computer product lines (mini, mb, mbpro, iMac, mac pro, xserve), and the only one I think they'd ever make a roadmap available for would be the xserves.

    This is mainly because the target market for an xserve is going to buy when they absolutely need it, and not have the luxury of deferring "for the latest best thing".



    Additionally, Apple has been quite open with the xserve, remember that VT's supercomputer had processors (2.33GHz IIRC) not originally available. VT must have been talking with Apple, and I don't know how much more open you could get than that.



    Obviously, all but the largest companies won't be buying xserves with the same scale as VT did, but it at least shows that Apple isn't all about the NDAs and lawyers when it comes to future products.
  • Reply 14 of 16
    coreycorey Posts: 165member
    Apple does the secret bit for a number of reasons (mentioned above) but primarily it is done now for free advertizing. Apple gets TONS of free advertizing every time they announce things and even when people just think they MIGHT release something.



    How many other companies in the electronics industry with such a small market share get the attention that Apple does on a product release? I can't think of any...



  • Reply 15 of 16
    peggespegges Posts: 56member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SquireM


    ... Why can?t there be a happy middle ground? Why couldn?t Steve (or any other CEO) come out and say: ?Here?s what we?re working on?Coming to market next quarter is a? Our R&D is looking into?? No one would have to lie or even exaggerate. Be honest and up front and not kill yourself (and your credibility) rushing stuff (read crap) to market (the UMPC comes to mind).



    Am I just completely naive or are there others that feel this way?



    Pre-Jobs' return, Apple used to do just that - they even had a section on their (then) little web site dwelling on current r & d efforts. Now, the fact that they talked about what might be in the pipeline didn't seem to do them much good, to be honest.
  • Reply 16 of 16
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    I fail to understand the importance of knowing what apple is doing on R&D front (I am not an apple insider for sure). No body tell you what is R&D is working on it at all. That including big names, such as Intel, IBM, TI, etc. The roadmap is forecast of product launch, or platform change. Such as one normally distributed to the key vendors/partners. As for the general Semi, you can find technology roadmap at ITRS, that outlined target price/feature size/packaging style for all (I mean all north america and Japan) to line up all the equipment, MFG facility and test software. As for software or OS platform change, it normally utilized with the specific hardware platform. No doubt apple is the master for that (Microsoft is inferior due to lack of control on the hardware front... or fail to control the hardware... not shortage of trying in the past)... Be a key vendor to Apple, I am sure you would got a hint on the next gen. platform... afterall, more software runs on the apple the better (don't get me started on the limited games I can buy...with limited money)..
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