Apple should really get away from other chains
Other chain stores have very poorly trained personnel who really don't care about Macs. Well, they actually don't care about anything but their paychecks, but that's beside the point. I visited a CompUSA recently that was in the process of being closed down. Figured there might be some decent deals there. Not a chance. They still had a 12" Powerbook for $1400 -- after 10% off! Who'd want an antique like that when a newer, much faster Macbook with a brighter, sharper screen can be had for $1k after rebate? I noticed a 1.66GHz Mac Mini at $730 after 10% off. When I asked the store manager about it, he just shrugged and said that's the price, take it or leave it. I left it. Why pay $730 for a demo unit when I could go to a nearby Apple Store and get it for $600 brand spanking new? Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. CompUSA couldn't close its stores fast enough. Too bad it's only a few of those stores. And take Bust Buy with you.
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I've been doing my best to turn this attitude around at BBY Canada and Future Shop stores - and I think we're succeeding - go take a look at our iPod pages, up only hours after Apple yesterday - my entire day was set aside for tuning into the special even and getting those pages set up. We're prepped and pumped and ready to sell Apple.
Frankly, I find your attitude to be a bit of the old school Mac-arrogance - you really haven't given any thought to the people working in these stores, who are just regular folks like me and you.
A couple of points:
When Apple abandons a product - the Powerbook, the iBook, the Power Mac - they don't take back inventory in the channel. Which means as a retailer you're stuck with it, at what you paid for it. There's less of a visible ding on the stores bottom line if they simply don't sell it - selling it at massive negative margin would spike their GM down for the day, the month and possibly even the quarter - so they're rather this thing cost the store through clearance dollars over the long run than bite that bullet.
Secondly, a great deal of these stores have a price match guarentee - though one of the stipulations of working with Apple is that you sell at Apple price points - none of this Wal-mart undercutting. Generally saying "Apple's got that selling for X" gets you the difference plus X percent.
Big Box retail isn't the key to Apple's strategy, but I can tell you from the numbers we did over the Back to School season, we're helping a hell of a lot more than we're hurting.
Other chain stores have very poorly trained personnel who really don't care about Macs. Well, they actually don't care about anything but their paychecks, but that's beside the point. I visited a CompUSA recently that was in the process of being closed down. Figured there might be some decent deals there. Not a chance. They still had a 12" Powerbook for $1400 -- after 10% off! Who'd want an antique like that when a newer, much faster Macbook with a brighter, sharper screen can be had for $1k after rebate? I noticed a 1.66GHz Mac Mini at $730 after 10% off. When I asked the store manager about it, he just shrugged and said that's the price, take it or leave it. I left it. Why pay $730 for a demo unit when I could go to a nearby Apple Store and get it for $600 brand spanking new? Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. CompUSA couldn't close its stores fast enough. Too bad it's only a few of those stores. And take Bust Buy with you.
The CompUSA store in my area is deteriorating in it's Apple section as well. Used to have nice banners with Apple logo and salespeople who try to help. Now it's hard to find the Apple section as banners are down and the products are not up to date, but not nearly as bad as the situation you encountered. A 12" PB for $1400, WTF!
Other chain stores have very poorly trained personnel who really don't care about Macs. Well, they actually don't care about anything but their paychecks, but that's beside the point. I visited a CompUSA recently that was in the process of being closed down. Figured there might be some decent deals there. Not a chance. They still had a 12" Powerbook for $1400 -- after 10% off! Who'd want an antique like that when a newer, much faster Macbook with a brighter, sharper screen can be had for $1k after rebate? I noticed a 1.66GHz Mac Mini at $730 after 10% off. When I asked the store manager about it, he just shrugged and said that's the price, take it or leave it. I left it. Why pay $730 for a demo unit when I could go to a nearby Apple Store and get it for $600 brand spanking new? Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. CompUSA couldn't close its stores fast enough. Too bad it's only a few of those stores. And take Bust Buy with you.
I agree, but Apple needs to greatly expand the number of stores first. Anyone who thinks that many people are going to drive three hours just to check out a Mac is fooling themselves.
Hey, I work for Best Buy Canada, so frankly, up yours sweetie.
I've been doing my best to turn this attitude around at BBY Canada and Future Shop stores - and I think we're succeeding - go take a look at our iPod pages, up only hours after Apple yesterday - my entire day was set aside for tuning into the special even and getting those pages set up. We're prepped and pumped and ready to sell Apple.
Frankly, I find your attitude to be a bit of the old school Mac-arrogance - you really haven't given any thought to the people working in these stores, who are just regular folks like me and you.
Maybe things are different in Canada. Maybe they're not. Here in the States, the general consensus among knowledgeable tech consumers is that Best Buy sucks. And that's not just the opinion of Mac users and buyers. I remember overhearing one sales clerk telling a customer that a VCR/DVD recorder combo deck would let her record all her old VHS movies onto DVD. Helloooo? Ever hear of Macrovision?
When Apple abandons a product - the Powerbook, the iBook, the Power Mac - they don't take back inventory in the channel. Which means as a retailer you're stuck with it, at what you paid for it. There's less of a visible ding on the stores bottom line if they simply don't sell it - selling it at massive negative margin would spike their GM down for the day, the month and possibly even the quarter - so they're rather this thing cost the store through clearance dollars over the long run than bite that bullet.
So it's a good thing to keep a badly outdated demo machine taking up valuable display space, with its value going down by the day but keeping the high price? That's insanity, and not the Apple variety. Dump the demo. You may lose a few bucks, but you free up display space and don't give the impression of not giving a damn about Macs. Let me reiterate: all the boxed machines were gone. These were all older display models they were asking for prices higher than newer and new in box, faster, better machines. That's not the way to spotlight Macs or any computers, for that matter. Oh, did I also mention they had $2k dual 2GHz G5s?
Secondly, a great deal of these stores have a price match guarentee - though one of the stipulations of working with Apple is that you sell at Apple price points - none of this Wal-mart undercutting. Generally saying "Apple's got that selling for X" gets you the difference plus X percent.
Read it again. I did tell them the Apple store not a quarter mile away would sell a new Core Duo 1.66GHz Mini for $600. They gave me the "tell someone who cares" look.
Big Box retail isn't the key to Apple's strategy, but I can tell you from the numbers we did over the Back to School season, we're helping a hell of a lot more than we're hurting.
Again, that's not the case here in the States. An awful lot of people down here would say "up yours" right back at Bust Buy. Frankly, of course.
Sorry graham, I'm with Kolchak on this one. Having watched a Best Buy rep tell a concerned customer that yes, plasma screens do fade over time, but that "just bring it back in and we'll refill the plasma gas" to make a sale, I won't step foot in one again. It's not a Mac attitude, it's an informed consumer attitude. The big box stores hire people who, generally, know little about the products, and will lie through their teeth to people who know even less, just to make a sale. I've seen it time after time after time.
And yes, I stepped in, told the customer he was being lied to, cost the rep his spiff, and received a heartfelt thank you from one, and a glare of death from the other. Then I spoke to the manager, who really didn't see a problem with it.
I'm glad you are trying to change things from within, but I don't hold out much hope for your success. I avoid the big box electronics stores at all costs. It's not worth the condescension, misinformation, and outright lying, just to try and buy something I can get online, usually cheaper.
(GDMF "Server too busy" error ate my damned post)
Sorry graham, I'm with Kolchak on this one. Having watched a Best Buy rep tell a concerned customer that yes, plasma screens do fade over time, but that "just bring it back in and we'll refill the plasma gas" to make a sale, I won't step foot in one again. It's not a Mac attitude, it's an informed consumer attitude. The big box stores hire people who, generally, know little about the products, and will lie through their teeth to people who know even less, just to make a sale. I've seen it time after time after time.
And yes, I stepped in, told the customer he was being lied to, cost the rep his spiff, and received a heartfelt thank you from one, and a glare of death from the other. Then I spoke to the manager, who really didn't see a problem with it.
I'm glad you are trying to change things from within, but I don't hold out much hope for your success. I avoid the big box electronics stores at all costs. It's not worth the condescension, misinformation, and outright lying, just to try and buy something I can get online, usually cheaper.
As far as I know, the reps in the Best Buy stores are't paid spiffs or commissions on core products. The big push ares for our Canadian divisions are hiring and product training - From what I've seen our reps are doing their homework and learning the product - because we're laying out some serious cash in time and effort to make sure that when folks come into our stores they're talking to experts.
Everyone and their dog has a story about how they went into X chain and heard Y bullshit being spewed at a customer. It sucks and it needs to be cut out, but let's face facts: Big Box stores account for the greater portion of sales for a majority of categories for most brands. With proper training and a little effort these channels can become a win for Apple.
Part of the solution needs to come from Apple itself - make sure that training materials are available and help us get rid of old product when a magical Apple-tranisition(tm) occurs with callbacks and cost clawbacks. Then you'll see fewer 2 year old demos - which reflects better on the chain and on Apple as a brand.
Knee-jerk reaction all you want, I've been working retail for 8 years and after graduating last year I moved to our Canadian Headquarters - there's more to this situation than just sales associates and manager motivations.
I should note that a perfect example of this is the PowerPC Mac Minis and G5 PowerMacs that we still have - who the heck are we going to sell them to now?
I agree that there could be more working with Apple to handle back inventory, but what do you think the other retailers do? They deal with it somehow, obviously. As a large chain, sure, you may be able to swing a deal with Apple, and if you do, bully for you - power of the mass purchase, etc, etc. But why would any manufacturer that has their own highly successful channels *want* to cut big box stores a deal, when their product is being so horribly misrepresented? You're right, training is essential, because right now, on the street where it matters to the customer, it's horrible.
Honestly, I simply cannot remember a single shopping experience at Best Buy, CompUSA, or the like, that didn't involve me getting into an argument with the rep over *some* issue that they hadn't a clue about, over what I was purchasing. Not once have they added to the shopping experience, not once have they been accurate. I now go out of my way to avoid the reps as much as I can, get in, get out, and hope to hell I don't have to talk to anyone. Even casual questions from the rep of "Oh, what are you going to use it for?" invariably end up with them spewing some idiotic comment that I just, now, walk away from. Training reps shouldn't be the responsibility of the customer. They've got a long way to go to get up to the basic, neutral, non-argumentative level of a web browser, for this consumer. So yes, I avoid them like the plague. If I were purchasing, say, a washer or dryer, where shipping charges would be hellacious, and it's a simple piece of equipment, I might consider it. But anything more complex or easy to ship? Not worth it for this consumer.
Don't take this as a personal attack, because it's not. I honestly hope you succeed in changing things, and the big box stores, or at least yours, can become a place that I'd feel good about patronizing, but right now, they're about as far from it as possible.
Sorry, not knee-jerk, I've also worked electronics retail for a couple of big box stores, and been a consumer of them for a couple of decades. Personal experience at both ends has taught me that it's a small step above used car sales IMO. If a push is being made to change that, *great*. I'll take into consideration when choosing a purchase point, when it trickles down to the local level. So far, nada. And face it - from the customer's point of view, the *only* thing that matters is the experience with the sales rep and the manager. The rest is irrelevant.
I agree that there could be more working with Apple to handle back inventory, but what do you think the other retailers do? They deal with it somehow, obviously. As a large chain, sure, you may be able to swing a deal with Apple, and if you do, bully for you - power of the mass purchase, etc, etc. But why would any manufacturer that has their own highly successful channels *want* to cut big box stores a deal, when their product is being so horribly misrepresented? You're right, training is essential, because right now, on the street where it matters to the customer, it's horrible.
Honestly, I simply cannot remember a single shopping experience at Best Buy, CompUSA, or the like, that didn't involve me getting into an argument with the rep over *some* issue that they hadn't a clue about, over what I was purchasing. Not once have they added to the shopping experience, not once have they been accurate. I now go out of my way to avoid the reps as much as I can, get in, get out, and hope to hell I don't have to talk to anyone. Even casual questions from the rep of "Oh, what are you going to use it for?" invariably end up with them spewing some idiotic comment that I just, now, walk away from. Training reps shouldn't be the responsibility of the customer. They've got a long way to go to get up to the basic, neutral, non-argumentative level of a web browser, for this consumer. So yes, I avoid them like the plague. If I were purchasing, say, a washer or dryer, where shipping charges would be hellacious, and it's a simple piece of equipment, I might consider it. But anything more complex or easy to ship? Not worth it for this consumer.
Don't take this as a personal attack, because it's not. I honestly hope you succeed in changing things, and the big box stores, or at least yours, can become a place that I'd feel good about patronizing, but right now, they're about as far from it as possible.
I don't take it as a personal attack - I know you're an argumentative son-of-a-gun
Again, your experiences in the past matched against what we and other corporations are doing in the future are, I hope, going to be two very different experiences. You seem to be fairly well informed so I'm not sure why you're spending much time discussing things with store reps in any case - personally I never have any issues walking into any store and stating "I'm looking for X, got it in stock?" and answering "no thanks, I'm good" to any follow up questions. Why argue? As a sales rep myself, if I ever disagreed with a customer I'd find the most tactful way to present my position and if they weren't interested, I'd shut up. I do the same thing a customer - really the only part of the transaction I'm interested in is the actual purchase and the leaving.
What do I think other retailers do about old inventory? Not sure, haven't worked there. I do know what would work for us though - and that's a little bit of a headsup for older lines and some cost breaks on clearing old hardware. Other manufacturers do it, Apple should to.
As far as bulk orders - we're not getting much of a price cut. To be honest, Apple is incredibly difficult to deal with from a financial standpoint. I would love nothing more than to replace a good chunk of our PC section with Minis, iMacs, and Mac Pros - but you can't get the stock - and by the time you can, they're clearance and the new models are on the way.
We are changing things. We had our best quarter EVER for Apple computers - growth well over what we were expecting. Our software offerings are five times the volume they were - we had Parrallels day and date and we'll be shipping more great apps like Delicious Monster as soon as they're available in retail boxes. I'm even making some headway in getting them to pull Norton Anti-virus for Mac
Needless to say, we're a different animal up here in Canada. Maybe a little crossborder shopping might be a good thing for you down the road
I don't take it as a personal attack - I know you're an argumentative son-of-a-gun And hence, that's probably why you end up in arguments every time you shop at a big box store. (<-- the above is said in jest )
Again, your experiences in the past matched against what we and other corporations are doing in the future are, I hope, going to be two very different experiences.
I hope so too. :} For most of the population, you guys are the first place they turn. C'mon man, they *need* you to be good!
You seem to be fairly well informed so I'm not sure why you're spending much time discussing things with store reps in any case - personally I never have any issues walking into any store and stating "I'm looking for X, got it in stock?" and answering "no thanks, I'm good" to any follow up questions. Why argue?
Heh. That's what I would love to do, however, when a rep asks what I'm planning on using such-and-such for, or what machine I'm going to put it in, or whatever, saying "I'd rather not answer" will at best get you thought of as rude, and at worst pegged as a terraist.
Seriously, I do try and keep the interaction to a minimum, but it seems weird that I, as a customer, should have to, or even *WANT* to do that. A tech store should be one place where I can let my geek yayas out, and chat with like-minded people. Instead, I find reps whose information is several years out of date, or just plain *wrong*. *shrug* They ask "what kind of machine are you putting that drive in?" and I have just started lying through my teeth. "A Dell." "What model?" "Dunno. My brother told me to come get this unit. He's the techie." Strangely enough, they go away after that, but if I say "A Mac", I know the next thing out of their mouth will be wrong. Invariably. And then they proceed to try to 'help', and it's a struggle to just be allowed to buy the damned item.
As a sales rep myself, if I ever disagreed with a customer I'd find the most tactful way to present my position and if they weren't interested, I'd shut up. I do the same thing a customer - really the only part of the transaction I'm interested in is the actual purchase and the leaving.
That's pretty much what it comes down to - and while you expect to run into the occasional idiot/jerk customer as a rep, it's not what you expect as a customer. It's certainly not what you expect as the *norm*. But, as I said, given that I can order exactly what I want online and get it usually in a day or two, not have to try and avoid reps, and end up having a better shopping experience, that's normally what I do.
What do I think other retailers do about old inventory? Not sure, haven't worked there. I do know what would work for us though - and that's a little bit of a headsup for older lines and some cost breaks on clearing old hardware. Other manufacturers do it, Apple should to.
Fair enough - back in my day (excuse me, gotta adjust my Depends), we had the same complaint with them.
As far as bulk orders - we're not getting much of a price cut. To be honest, Apple is incredibly difficult to deal with from a financial standpoint. I would love nothing more than to replace a good chunk of our PC section with Minis, iMacs, and Mac Pros - but you can't get the stock - and by the time you can, they're clearance and the new models are on the way.
*nod* I can completely believe that.
We are changing things. We had our best quarter EVER for Apple computers - growth well over what we were expecting. Our software offerings are five times the volume they were - we had Parrallels day and date and we'll be shipping more great apps like Delicious Monster as soon as they're available in retail boxes. I'm even making some headway in getting them to pull Norton Anti-virus for Mac
WOOT! Now *THAT'S* customer service!
Needless to say, we're a different animal up here in Canada. Maybe a little crossborder shopping might be a good thing for you down the road
Sounds like it. Now, wanna come down and kick yer 'Merican brethren in the head a bit to wake them up? *grin*
Needless to say, we're a different animal up here in Canada. Maybe a little crossborder shopping might be a good thing for you down the road
Best Buy Canada is a separate entity, so there's no comparison. You're a lot smaller, so it's easier for you to make changes. You only have 45 stores, compared with 778 for the US. Somehow, I don't think Best Buy is going to send 17x more US sales reps for rigorous training. Especially since most of them are poorly paid kids who flunked out of college.
Even Geek Squad gets a ton of bad press on the web. And these are supposed to be Best Buy's finest.
Cross border? If buyers can't be bothered to drive a hundred miles to get to an Apple Store, somehow, I don't think they'll head for the northern border, especially if they're in the south.