Better than a pc?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
hey, im very new here and was just wondering why people like macs so much? i have one but never really liked it. and until today the only arguements ive heard are stupid like "M$ wants to 0wn the worldz lol." and because they look pretty. and that im a sheep because i like pc's and viruses and other stupid easily defeatable or just plain stupid arguements. if its personal preference then fine that makes sense, but dont be dumb about it. my only real hate for them is the fanboys, the cost, the proprietary equipment and proprietary support (which hasn't actually helped me once, which is rediculous because apple care is way expensive). anways the arguement i got today was that macs were better with fonts and color outputs. now that doesent really make any sense to me. but maybe someonw here (fanboy or not) can back that up?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    It really depends upon what you do and the price of the computer you are looking for. Generally speaking you can get a slick, stable OS X computer with Parallels (which can interface in beta mode with Bootcamp now) and XP Pro SP2 for within a hundred dollars of an equivalent PC, in a more stylish form, sometimes even less than the PC. If you are a hard core gamer who wants total customization, the ability to overclock EVERYTHING, drivers for every graphics card, sound card, joystick, etc. To be frank, look elsewhere. If you are a casual user looking at spending 1 Grand or higher or even a Prosumer look a little more carefully at an Apple, they are great. We use them in our law office, and we are about to deploy an Enterprise network with and XServe, running Parallels for the software that is PC only.
  • Reply 2 of 15
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Fanboys: Who you talkin' bout, Willis?



    Cost: Pfeh. No longer an issue. While you can always find a cheaper PC than the lowest cost Mac, that's like saying you can find a cheaper Chevy than the lowest cost BMW. It will always be true, and it is also utterly irrelevant. Go spec together an actual honest-to-god comparable box at Dell, and you'll find that, almost always, the Mac will be actually cheaper. And that's before you start figuring in things like the free software it ships with. (No joke! Try it! The Mac Pros? Across the board, $700 cheaper than comparable units from Dell last I looked.)



    Proprietary equipment: Such as... ? I keep hearing this one pop up, and I really can't get a good answer from anyone.



    Proprietary support: I assume you mean AppleCare. Er, every company's support is 'proprietary' to their own products, you know. You can't call Gateway for help with your Dell, after all... Perhaps if you clarified what you meant here...



    If you're looking to create your own rig, then sure, Apple boxen aren't for you. Haven't been since the Apple ][ days, to be honest. If you're looking for a solid price/performance deal, with an OS that really, truly, doesn't have viruses or malware, and you can get your work done instead of having to fight the computer, then they're great options.



    FWIW, I'm a PhD in CompSci, now a software engineering researcher at IBM Research. Guess what I have on my desk? Guess who has the least problems with his system in my team?



    Welcome to the boards, and anything we can do to help you drink the Kool-Aid... uh, I mean, help you enjoy your Mac, just ask.
  • Reply 3 of 15
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha


    Fanboys: Who you talkin' bout, Willis?



    Cost: Pfeh. No longer an issue. While you can always find a cheaper PC than the lowest cost Mac, that's like saying you can find a cheaper Chevy than the lowest cost BMW. It will always be true, and it is also utterly irrelevant. Go spec together an actual honest-to-god comparable box at Dell, and you'll find that, almost always, the Mac will be actually cheaper. And that's before you start figuring in things like the free software it ships with. (No joke! Try it! The Mac Pros? Across the board, $700 cheaper than comparable units from Dell last I looked.)



    Proprietary equipment: Such as... ? I keep hearing this one pop up, and I really can't get a good answer from anyone.



    Proprietary support: I assume you mean AppleCare. Er, every company's support is 'proprietary' to their own products, you know. You can't call Gateway for help with your Dell, after all... Perhaps if you clarified what you meant here...



    If you're looking to create your own rig, then sure, Apple boxen aren't for you. Haven't been since the Apple ][ days, to be honest. If you're looking for a solid price/performance deal, with an OS that really, truly, doesn't have viruses or malware, and you can get your work done instead of having to fight the computer, then they're great options.



    FWIW, I'm a PhD in CompSci, now a software engineering researcher at IBM Research. Guess what I have on my desk? Guess who has the least problems with his system in my team?



    Welcome to the boards, and anything we can do to help you drink the Kool-Aid... uh, I mean, help you enjoy your Mac, just ask.



    Hey I thought you guys got out of the computer business.
  • Reply 4 of 15
    haha both sides have fanboys and i can't lie i probably do have some arbitrary love for my pc



    cost wise my g/f (graphic designer) just spent 1.8k on a macbook pro that has comparable specs to a laptop i could get for 400 less (no not at dell or gateway or HP, they're ripoffs too) the support complaint i geuss isnt a good point to make, beause for major problems you always have to go to the company you bought it from. it just stinks when its soemthing really small and they want you to send it to them. with pc problems i can fix it myself 99% of the time. (haha maybe the opposite point would be because ive had practice fixing mistakes? ) for the equipment ive been told i cant work on my own computer because i'll void warrentys so i need to have a tech do the work for me. thats mostly what i mean.



    thanks for the actually helpful responses
  • Reply 5 of 15
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yeah, I'd say that I can fix 99% of the issues on my Mac too... the difference is they pop up a couple times a year, instead of a couple times a week, if my colleagues are any example... Familiarity with the tech definitely helps, and I know that there are times I want to pull my hair out on a Windows box *solely* because I'm unfamiliar with the ins and outs... of course, I still think the ins and outs on the Mac side are better designed.



    Your point about non-big-name-brand units being a bit cheaper is a valid one, but for most folks out there, they *want* the big-name-brand because to them they mean quality (usually the case), stability (true), and that certain something extra (irrational emotions, duh). You sound like a techhead like many of us here, and yeah, it's a bit harder sell because you know you can build a box on your own for a lot cheaper, know it inside and out, and be thrilled with doing so. For you (and me to a point), the act of creating the machine is part of the fun, and the maintenance is a chance to learn something new about it. In that respect, I've been really happy with my Mac - the Unix layers are constantly a source of 'learning experiences' (I kid - they're rock solid - the only time things go caca is when I poke at something I shouldn't have, despite the nice warnings I get), and frankly, Apple keeps coming up with neat ways to push the state of the art even down there. Take a gander at launchctl sometime. Spiffy. I have more than a few Linuxhead friends who wish like hell they had that on their systems.



    Anywho, to each their own, blah blah blah... from my perspective though, it's hard to beat a Mac for value (including getting your work done) and fun.
  • Reply 6 of 15
    wircwirc Posts: 302member
    The important thing is that you use what you want. I personally despise Windows and hate using AutoCAD for that reason. You may not - at least you tried it and thought about it, so you are not a sheep.



    Important things to keep in mind are:



    1. Which OS did you use? Before OS X, I disliked the platform. Actually one of my friends was complaining about having to use a Mac for research and was mocking me for using one - until I saw her using OS 9. OS X is tight and intuitive, which seem most important to me.



    2. Design is something that is ignored and pooh-poohed by all too many people, who are willing to settle for gaudiness and cheapness. People do not realize the power of a beautifully-designed piece that is simple and easy-to-use. It is "irrational," but it is the same as beauty in that it affects every little action and thought that you have. But don;t mistake "cool" for good design - they are often the same, like in an iPod, but usually good design is more subtle. It's hard to tease out without a long discussion, but love for cool things usually fades, while love for good things tends to grow stronger.



    3. Is your GF's computer exactly comparable to the one you could get from the other brand? Consider that Apple puts a lot of stuff into computers that seems unnecessary at first but get more useful, like the camera, FireWire ports, optical audio, MagSafe, backlit keyboard,decent speakers, mic, form factor, etc.
  • Reply 7 of 15
    For me it's just the fact that I don't have to spend a zillion hours running virus checker/adware removal app/other utilities just to keep a PC working properly. I spend 5 minutes a week doing maintenance on two Macs, that's it.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,195moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    Hey I thought you guys got out of the computer business.







    He is doing research though. Maybe he's researching how to get IBM back into the computer business.



    I'm really interested in that actually. I keep hearing how IBM are the still at the top in the industry and now that all the consoles are using IBM chips they must be doing something right but are they really outperforming Intel and AMD or are they just targetting different markets?



    IBM don't seem to cut it in the laptop sector with the PPC chips. The other things is I saw IBM selling boxes with Intel or was it AMD chips. How does that work if they are rivals?



    @UseSkaForEvil: Great way to make an entrance to stir up fanboys. Typically that's what PC users do. But yeah, as mentioned, Apple computers aren't the most powerful machines for the price but they've become very competitive by using the Intel chips. They are well designed machines, run quieter than PCs generally do (we just switched the last one off in the office after replacing it with a Mac and the difference is incredible), they have really neat innovations like magnetic power cords and things, they run the easiest to use unix operating system in the world and they can run Windows if you need to.



    PC users criticize Mac users for saying running Windows is an advantage because you can buy a PC. But the point is that with a Mac, you now get a PC + all the best bits that make a Mac, some of which I mentioned.



    It's not to everybody's liking, you just have to decide whose business model you prefer.



    Linux likes everything free and open source = less commercial backing

    Windows likes to use proprietary media formats and has a badly designed system

    Macs like to tie hardware and software together



    Since you get almost all the benefits of Linux with OS X, getting a dual booting Mac gives you the best of everything in a neat little box. If you are happy with Windows then why bother looking at a Mac? If not and want something better than Linux, then a Mac is where to go.
  • Reply 9 of 15
    The reason I love my mac:



    1) Unix under the covers. I admit it - I love unix and the command line. I like linux too - but mac has a much better ui.

    2) Hardware design - very sleek, functional, and just plain cool. (iMac and Macbook Pro here)

    3) No spyware, adware, or virus.

    4) Managing digital media - especially with built-in iLife apps. If you have digital movies, digital photos, digital music, or play guitar, then iLife represents HUGE value.





    The list goes on and on, but these are the top 4. Windows just can't compete on these points.
  • Reply 10 of 15
    irelandireland Posts: 17,521member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UseSkaForEvil


    hey, im very new here and was just wondering why people like macs so much? i have one but never really liked it. and until today the only arguements ive heard are stupid like "M$ wants to 0wn the worldz lol." and because they look pretty. and that im a sheep because i like pc's and viruses and other stupid easily defeatable or just plain stupid arguements. if its personal preference then fine that makes sense, but dont be dumb about it. my only real hate for them is the fanboys, the cost, the proprietary equipment and proprietary support (which hasn't actually helped me once, which is rediculous because apple care is way expensive). anways the arguement i got today was that macs were better with fonts and color outputs. now that doesent really make any sense to me. but maybe someonw here (fanboy or not) can back that up?



    Cause they're better.
  • Reply 11 of 15
    Walking into this forum and asking people why Macs are better - is a bit like walking into a church and asking which deity is better. You might not always get a straight answer.



    For myself - I have a houshold with about an even split in PCs to Macs. I use a Mac for all my work - but I am the person called upon to fix technical problems whenever they arise. I used to be PC only for many many years.



    The short answer is Macs give you less problems as a user. Less fiddling under the hood. Less changing settings trying to get things to work. Less issues with hardware and drivers. Less problems with things breaking because of cruft or spyware. I used to lose days, trawling the internet looking for solutions to obscure problems. I don't have to do that any more.



    I do like the fact that using the Mac is more fun too. I like all the drag and drop stuff.



    There are still strong reasons for sticking with Windows for some people because some software exists only under Windows:

    Outlook, Project, AutoCad, Max, Softimage XSI and a bunch of other stuff is Windows only.

    Games are the other big thing. If your life is dominated by gaming - then the Mac is not the ideal platform. There are more games, and better performing games under Windows.



    But things are changing. Parallels, Crossover and BootCamp all let you have Windows-only apps running on your Mac. So if you are thinking of making the change. These solutions make the process a little less painful.



    C.
  • Reply 12 of 15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin






    I'm really interested in that actually. I keep hearing how IBM are the still at the top in the industry and now that all the consoles are using IBM chips they must be doing something right but are they really outperforming Intel and AMD or are they just targetting different markets?



    If a vendor walks in my office and has an option to sell me 4000 desktops or the hand full of servers and services it requires to keep enterprise applications running (im not talking about small mom and pop shops that have 0-500 machines)...the vendor will choose the server and services almost everytime.



    Alot of people see just the desktop side of things and think why not just go with Macs. Well its not nearly that simple. Right now IBM is at the top when it comes to large enterprise systems and services. Most people don't get to tour data centers.
  • Reply 13 of 15
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Agreed. IBM exited the *PC* market... which while large, isn't the whole enchilada by any means. The shift to blade centers and such is also swinging the pendulum back to the server room.



    You haven't seen computing power until you've had to don ear protection to tour Blue Gene/L...
  • Reply 14 of 15
    mrsinmrsin Posts: 163member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UseSkaForEvil


    hey, im very new here and was just wondering why people like macs so much? i have one but never really liked it. and until today the only arguements ive heard are stupid like "M$ wants to 0wn the worldz lol." and because they look pretty. and that im a sheep because i like pc's and viruses and other stupid easily defeatable or just plain stupid arguements. if its personal preference then fine that makes sense, but dont be dumb about it. my only real hate for them is the fanboys, the cost, the proprietary equipment and proprietary support (which hasn't actually helped me once, which is rediculous because apple care is way expensive). anways the arguement i got today was that macs were better with fonts and color outputs. now that doesent really make any sense to me. but maybe someonw here (fanboy or not) can back that up?



    If what YOU choose to use "does it for you," congratulations and have a nice day .



    Justify (or back up) my choice to be an Apple Mac enthusiast - to another Apple Mac enthusiast - cool 8). To do so with a non-Apple Mac enthusiast, no thanks .
  • Reply 15 of 15
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha


    Agreed. IBM exited the *PC* market... which while large, isn't the whole enchilada by any means. The shift to blade centers and such is also swinging the pendulum back to the server room.



    You haven't seen computing power until you've had to don ear protection to tour Blue Gene/L...



    I'm curious, what os does it run on? OS2, LInux?
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