Warranty beef

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Folks, I found this in the letters' column - not a discussion page - of an online portal in a Malaysia, written by a doctor who appears to have a serious beef with Apple. The appendix is complete save for the identity of the writer.



As my passion for Apple is growing and not likely to wane, I look forward to an analysis as to how this will play out and / or how it began in the first place.






"I bought a Mac Powerbook G4 15" laptop in October 2005. It is December 2006 now. In this period of about 14 months, I had practically no access or use of this expensive laptop from July 2006 i.e. about six months.



It has a ?sleep? problem - it would just go to sleep any time not when it is only inactive for a specified time. This could happen in the middle of some serious work one is doing. Sometime it boots up and sometime it does not.



I was told that the unit was sent to Singapore for repair. I was further informed that the problem I had was a result of a ?manufacturing defect? and that Mac had a special programme to help those with this problem (Warranty Extension Program - Memory Slot - Logic Board Extension Programme). I wonder why a replacement policy for the defective machines was not in place.



I understand that Mac likes to present itself superior to the PC platform. But in my case, I would Apple Computer Inc to consider the following:



* Selling of a defective Powerbook G4 15" puts a question on the standard and quality of a supposedly superior and expensive product by a big corporation.



* No replacement policy, just a repair policy for problems occurring within the warranty period. I submitted my unit for repair two times within the warranty period. This ?no substitution? policy for repairs that take a long time leave customers completely helpless. My whole work schedule in relation to the purchase of this high-end Mac laptop was upset. In the end, I could not produce my video report for which this was really bought.



The default one-year warranty period is not clear. I bought the unit on Oct 6, 2005. I would expect the warranty to be over only on Oct 6, 2006. That is one year. But I am told that is not the case and I need to pay for repair and service. A double injustice and unethical practice - selling me a defective product and making me further pay for it.



I hope Apple Computer Inc knows that they need a better way to handle this kind of problems.



As of November this year, the unit is still not repaired. And as of today, I still do not have my Powerbook. Imagine this for a moment - within a period of about 14 months from the date of purchase, I had practically no access to my Powerbook for about six months.



Talk about quality of products, services and ethical practices by a leading computer manufacturer and those who work for it. It is certainly disappointing.



I also like all interested authorities to examine the quality of products and services offered by big corporations such as Apple to unsuspecting consumers. I also like to draw people?s attention to the ethical practices of such corporations and those who carry out business in their name.



Apple?s response policy and practice to purchases by unsuspecting consumers of defective products is most disappointing and unjust. In my case, Mac seem to say: ?You purchased one of our defective products. Too bad?".

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    To begin with, I'd like some proof for this story.
  • Reply 2 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    To begin with, I'd like some proof for this story.



    http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/61154 is the link to the letter - [email protected] - is the email to the letters' column. I'm a little outside to comment at this point and due to the nature of the portal I was unable to parry real-time with the complainant to get a feel of the issue and even if I did, technical matters such as 'kernel panic' for instance, would be greek to me.



    Chucker, would you or more experienced forum members crystallize an appropriate response for the benefit of apple users or rather diehards in Malaysia and Singapore ?
  • Reply 3 of 16
    We're not going to get some story about how a stranger in Botswana wants to wire $2 million to our bank account next... are we...?
  • Reply 4 of 16
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tommy Peters View Post


    http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/61154 is the link to the letter - [email protected] - is the email to the letters' column.



    I appreciate the link, but I wanted some evidence, not an attribution. Call me an apologist, but I have a strong feeling that much of the text is, shall we say, starkly biased and exaggerated?



    Quote:

    Chucker, would you or more experienced forum members crystallize an appropriate response for the benefit of apple users or rather diehards in Malaysia and Singapore ?



    Why? If this did occur as stated, then we should be giving negative feedback to Apple about it.
  • Reply 5 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    I appreciate the link, but I wanted some evidence, not an attribution. Call me an apologist, but I have a strong feeling that much of the text is, shall we say, starkly biased and exaggerated?







    Why? If this did occur as stated, then we should be giving negative feedback to Apple about it.



    At first blush Chucker "starkly biased and exaggerated" is indeed an understatement but I've not scratched further, hence my post. In any case, in this age of communication, I do not view a letters' forum as an appropriate step for such matters.



    A typical response would be hypothetical and need not be evidence-based and would be along the lines if a G4 shut down on you and the route you would take the complainant may have missed and presupposing you are familiar with a typical Mac warranty, I would for instance ask how you would confront the claimed 'no substitution' policy if faced with one or the claimed 'no replacement' policy.



    Hope we can close this before Christmas.



    On an unrelated topic, the iMac range was advertised today in the mainstream newspapers in Malaysia. There's an Apple cult in Malaysia but this is the first time I've seen Apple advertise any of it's products in our mainstream. Is there something brewing with iMacs - upgrades impending? The Apple dealers say they are in the dark too.
  • Reply 6 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    We're not going to get some story about how a stranger in Botswana wants to wire $2 million to our bank account next... are we...?



    Spam, you're hilarious - are you on the correct page? We're quite legit here. These Botswana scams actually do us in now and then - not the other way around. Guess we aren't as clever as the Bostwanas but we love our computers and cars but still can't tell the difference between the door handle and the carburrettor... cheers bro
  • Reply 7 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tommy Peters View Post


    Spam, you're hilarious - are you on the correct page? We're quite legit here. These Botswana scams actually do us in now and then - not the other way around. Guess we aren't as clever as the Bostwanas but we love our computers and cars but still can't tell the difference between the door handle and the carburrettor... cheers bro





    Yes, Tommy we're on the correct page.
  • Reply 8 of 16
    I had 3 logic boards replaced on my iBooks and the powersupply replaced on my iMac G5.



    Everything was groovy Tuesday on my iMac G4 and my PB 12"



    Take that for what its worth.
  • Reply 9 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    I appreciate the link, but I wanted some evidence, not an attribution. Call me an apologist, but I have a strong feeling that much of the text is, shall we say, starkly biased and exaggerated?



    Why? If this did occur as stated, then we should be giving negative feedback to Apple about it.



    We need to get more details as to where the person bought his PowerBook and where he took it in for repairs.



    Okay, here's the 411 on Apple in Malaysia, particularly Kuala Lumpur (KL)

    1. They take it up the a55 from Singapore since Singapore is the gateway for Asia Pacific.

    2. I bought my parents' iBook G4 933mhz from Apple[MidValley KL] with AppleCare Extended.

    3. In the second year, the display showed the "lines of death" or some similar phenomenon that was identified by Mac users globally, and the display died soon after the the "lines of death" symptoms started appearing.

    4. Apple[MidValley KL] replaced the display panel, with some reluctance but without too much problems.

    5. Repairs were done in about 5 working days max. Technician's name was Weng Seng.

    6. About a year ago Apple[MidValley KL] declined to repair the modem that died, claiming it was "burnt due to lightning strike". While thunderstorms and lightning are very frequent in Malaysia, at no stage, clearly, were we using the modem during a thunderstorm, let alone dial-up since OMFG there's DSL broadband now for several years in Malaysia.

    7. My graphic designer family friend told me that there's one "main place" that she took her PowerBook to, and other service centres (full legit Apple dealers and all) had declined some repairs, but this "main place" did her repairs since "they knew her lecturers" (graphic design teachers at a boutique high-end design school).
  • Reply 10 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post


    I had 3 logic boards replaced on my iBooks and the powersupply replaced on my iMac G5. ... Everything was groovy Tuesday on my iMac G4 and my PB 12" ....Take that for what its worth.



    In SanFrancisco 2001-2002 I got the CompUSA AppleTech to replace my iBook G3 500mhz logic board like about 3 times within 6 months. He did it each time in about 4 days. He was puzzled, the main problem was the FW400 port getting fried. Eventually I concluded it was because the stupid FireWire card in my Dell at work was frying the iBook's port everytime I connected the two via FireWire and did Target Disk Mode/ MacDrive transfers.



    In Sydney 2004 I was very dissapointed when my 20" display (ACD Plastic Style) came with 3 dead pixels. Warranty includes such dead pixels, that is, they would not fix it. The PowerMac G5 1.6ghz single was sweeet though. Nonetheless, I managed to sell the system and get a PowerBook and iPod through MacCentre (http://www.maccentre.com.au - run by a decent chap named Inigo, last time I knew him...).
  • Reply 11 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tommy Peters View Post


    At first blush Chucker "starkly biased and exaggerated" is indeed an understatement but I've not scratched further, hence my post. In any case, in this age of communication, I do not view a letters' forum as an appropriate step for such matters.



    A typical response would be hypothetical and need not be evidence-based and would be along the lines if a G4 shut down on you and the route you would take the complainant may have missed and presupposing you are familiar with a typical Mac warranty, I would for instance ask how you would confront the claimed 'no substitution' policy if faced with one or the claimed 'no replacement' policy.



    Hope we can close this before Christmas.



    On an unrelated topic, the iMac range was advertised today in the mainstream newspapers in Malaysia. There's an Apple cult in Malaysia but this is the first time I've seen Apple advertise any of it's products in our mainstream. Is there something brewing with iMacs - upgrades impending? The Apple dealers say they are in the dark too.



    Hi Tommy and Chucker I am in Australia at the moment. Yes, Apple is starting to get bigger in Malaysia. There are a number of new dealers that have popped up - in KL including greater metro area - Midvalley, BangsarShoppingCtr, BangsarVillage, IkanoPowerCtr, 1Utama, CycomLowYatPlaza... for example.



    The Apple dealers in Malaysia are treated like mushrooms by Singapore - feed 'em sh1t and keep 'em in the dark. I've said it numerous times. They never get enough stock, never the latest stock, and demo a lot of the time, long outdated models.



    With the current complainant, I say it is strongly possible his complains are valid. However, he should realise that he can take the PowerBook to other Service Centres in KL, or maybe he is outside of KL so he's been screwed around.



    "No replacement policy" is admittedly clear for Apple in many cities around the world. Some countries have it that if you have to take it in for service 3 times within a year, then they will replace. In any case, I don't know why the repair was sent to Singapore, and since the date he experienced the problem his repair issue went to Singapore and down a black hole, particularly with a "well known admitted Apple defect" which he claims, defect of which is well documented globally.



    Likely that they had to order the part from Singapore, but in any case, if he has some valid claims, he got royally screwed. Repairs should not have taken so long and now denied. The defect was reported within the 1 year limited warranty period so denying him repairs now is totally illegal.
  • Reply 12 of 16
    Said complainant needs to get his mum, preferably Chinese, to get in on the deal. About 1 year ago my new Sony 17" LCD had about 1 dead (bright) pixel and like 1 dead (dark) pixel. We took it into Sony's main HQ for servicing in KL. They then gave us the "Sorry not covered by warranty, has to be more than 3 dead (bright) pixels, not dead (dark/dust) pixels, etc, etc...". Then essentially, my mum badgered the service personnel there for like a whole hour until they finally gave in. They ordered the display panel from Japan or something, I used my LCD for two to three months initially, then the part came in, they replaced the panel in 3-5 working days, and voila, 17" Sony LCD 1280x1024 pixels, all of them (last I checked in July 2006) shining the right way. The Sony when purchased has a 3 year warranty. It was advertised on the box that "no dead pixel" but the Sony HQ people were saying something like "you have to check when you buy it"
  • Reply 13 of 16
    Here's what I've learnt, some of you have more and different experiences, but in my 5 years of buying and selling and getting repairs and convincing people to buy Macs and Applecare, this is what I understand.



    1. Apple is not perfect.

    2. Steve Jobs is not God.

    3. Apple sales and service differs widely depending on country, region, even within a city.

    4. You must have a way to check if your screen has any dead pixels before buying it, or have a return policy with 100% money back if you are not happy with your machine*

    5. *In some cases local laws do not force this, so be aware of restocking fees, etc.

    6. That said, local laws are the best ways to go about ensuring repairs that are fair, speedy, and so on.

    7. Sometimes you have to be firm with the Apple service people and understand your rights as a consumer under local laws.

    8. I'd put in "take some time to consider the other side of the counter" but I am not familiar with working as a sales or service Apple person so I can't say much about that.

    9. In cases of recalls or widely acknowledged problems, be sure to print out all the details from the Apple website as a record to show your service centre.

    10. Try different service centres. In each service centre, try to speak to a manager.

    11. In person usually works best compared to calling in, although the Apple US call centre appears to be quite flexible and supportive from what I have read.



    Peace Out.
  • Reply 14 of 16
    Thanks Sunil for the comprehensive seat of the pants and for slow stripping my dear snow white with your 11 points – it hurt.



    Further pointers would be welcome as it would help guide my impending iMac purchase from behind the counter. Sunil, what’s your feel on the ground on iMac upgrades? As much as I love those babies in their current form, I prefer not to be caught out. For instance, would GeForce appear on the 20 or 17? There’s some rumbling in Singapore but no one can give me a time-frame.



    As a response to the PowerBook complaint, I propose to send Malaysiakini a link to this page. Merry Christmas.
  • Reply 15 of 16
    Posted by Kidkit at MacNN on the above subject ...



    I think there are 2 parts to the good doctor's problems:



    Firstly, there is the very real hardware problem with his powerbook. that is unfortunate indeed, but you do get a few lemons, no matter which computer brand you buy. without re-iterating MCD too much, most apple hardware users are pleased with what they get. Can Apple's replacement and recall policies be improved? definitely. During the recent flaming batteries recall, the pains of mac users in asia and countries without apple stores serve to highlight the point. If he is having beef with the poilicies he's facing, he should contact Apple Malaysia (or Singapore if the former doesn't exist)



    Related to the above, I believe Apple is only represented by authorised resellers in Malaysia. While I can't speak to the quality of the Malaysian resellers, I've seen the Singapore "Apple Center" in the shopping district (also a reseller). While it is very nice compared to the typical "computer shop" in the region, it is a far cry from the real Apple store experience. I suspect that part of the his woes stem from the return and service policy of the reseller that he is dealing with. After sales support is unfortunately not a strong point with many computer retailers in south east asia. This might be another path he should be chasing down, but it sounds like he has equated both his reseller and hardware experience with Apple.


    __________________
  • Reply 16 of 16
    This comment was posted by ghporter a moderator at MacNN ...



    Apple deals with people of every level of computer expertise. In fact it seems that the least expert are the most likely to come up with some REALLY odd "diagnosis" for their computer's malady. Because of this (and it's true for EVERY technical support issue on EVERY brand in EVERY kind of product), Apple technicians have to do two things.



    They first have to do their own tests to determine what's working and not working. This goes by a checklist that Apple sets out in most cases, so even if a tech gets some flash of inspiration, it's usually not used because he has to PROVE his hunch is correct. And the technician cannot do anything beyond what the problem that PRESENTS ON THE BENCH indicates.



    The second thing is to research that particular computer. Is the problem it's been brought in for a common one? Has it been brought in for this before? For something else that's related? Just about every customer wants a NEW computer when he or she sees something out of the ordinary, but that's not only not economically feasible, it's not warranted either.



    Now, if Apple had KNOWN that YOUR PowerBook was defective before they sold it, they would NOT have sold it. That would be pretty stupid, right? Second, once they found out about a systemic problem with that particular model, they DID come up with a fix-replacing the logic board is replacing the actual works of the computer. Why give you a new computer when only the logic board is bad? It takes a while to install the board, but once it's in, it should work just fine. Further, Apple has a history of doing "the right thing," though some customers think that it takes them an awful long time to figure out what that "right thing" is. There are numerous accounts here of people who had repeat problems with their iBooks, PowerBooks, etc. and once Apple figured out that multiple fixes weren't working, they GAVE THE CUSTOMER A BRAND NEW, CURRENTLY AVAILABLE REPLACEMENT, which means the iBook customer got a MacBook and the PB customer got a MacBook Pro. All due to Apple's intent to keep their products working and their customers satisfied.




    So it takes a while. Sorry about that. But they WILL do the right thing by you if you give them the opportunity and don't treat one of the most aggressively pro-customer companies like some bargain basement, stupid, anti-consumer hack shop.



    Of course these are my own personal views.



    Now, if you stay on top of the people who you gave your malfunctioning computer to so that they stay on top of "the Apple repair system" in your part of the world, you should get current status of what's going on and maybe some extra consideration (they sometimes fix some minor issue or upgrade other stuff when they have to take the machine apart that far) if you are POLITE, CONTROLLED, CONSISTENT AND (very important) PERSISTENT.
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