Church & State

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
Among other conundrums established in our nation's young history, does employment of a staff chaplain by the armed forces directly violate the separation of church and state?



Seems like it does, as it endorses one religion over another.



The floor is open for discussion...

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 8
    duh!... NO.



    The US government cannot mandate any particular religion among its citizenry... it doesn't mean that the fed CAN'T supply certain religious decoration for those who want it. (But the fed is also NOT REQUIRED to provide said decoration.)



    Think back to the turn of the 18th century... among other problems, Great Britain endorsed the Church of England (protestant) and officially hated catholics, while Napoleonic France was officially Catholic and was officially anti-protestant. (yes, this is very simplified) This tended to play a part in fostering the Napoleonic Wars.



    Ain't it funny how religions of ALL types tend to gravitate toward open warfare with "conflicting" religions... Almost makes one wonder if religions weren't started as an artifice of governments designed to covertly subjugate the general populace and to persuade them to support the goals of said governments. (That last sentence sounds bad, but after re-reading it, I'm pretty sure it is grammatically proper.)
  • Reply 2 of 8
    maimezvousmaimezvous Posts: 802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    Ain't it funny how religions of ALL types tend to gravitate toward open warfare with "conflicting" religions... Almost makes one wonder if religions weren't started as an artifice of governments designed to covertly subjugate the general populace and to persuade them to support the goals of said governments. (That last sentence sounds bad, but after re-reading it, I'm pretty sure it is grammatically proper.)



    I think that some sort of religion or belief system existed before gov't and that eventually the gov't just decided to use it to it's advantage. Really though, this situation could be the other way just as well. Religion may have used the gov't to help start wars and meet its own needs. Who knows.
  • Reply 3 of 8
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    dThink back to the turn of the 18th century... among other problems, Great Britain endorsed the Church of England (protestant) and officially hated catholics, while Napoleonic France was officially Catholic and was officially anti-protestant. (yes, this is very simplified) This tended to play a part in fostering the Napoleonic Wars.



    I don't see how this is a valid point. Both those countries had official religions, the USA does not have an official religion, so you can't say "we should do it because they did" or something like that.



    I personally think that military chaplains are fine, as long as they have multiple types for the various major religions - but how do you decide if a religion is big enough to "deserve" representation?
  • Reply 4 of 8
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by segovius View Post


    If the are serving personell of a given religion then they have that right.



    As you will doubtless be painfully aware from other areas, like in many cases It is not a question of size....



    Ha ha, penis joke.



    Anyway, your ideal is not what is in place I bet. How many Rastafarian priests in the military? I bet there are jewish rabbis, but is the FSM represented?
  • Reply 5 of 8
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by segovius View Post


    FSM is not a religion but rather a lame attempt at an equivalence perpetrated by ignoble minds designed to 'show us the light' but which woefully falls short of even that pathetic aspiration.



    How many Rastas would join the US military I wonder? Seems an even more stupid thing for them to than for a Muslim.



    Your anti-FSM bit is a lame attempt at discrediting the equivalence.



    I am sure there must be Rastas in the US military, are you saying that they don't get chaplains because it was stupid for them to join in the first place?
  • Reply 6 of 8
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by segovius View Post


    It's difficult to believe that Rastas would endorse the US military for numerous reasons



    So pick some other small religion, and explain why they should/should not have US military chaplains - there are plenty to pick from, say Zoroastrianism or Scientology.



    My point was not about the specifics of a particular religion, but about how the line is being drawn.
  • Reply 7 of 8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by segovius View Post


    It's difficult to believe that Rastas would endorse the US military for numerous reasons



    They would also hate the Army's liberal policy of don't ask, don't tell, versus simply killing all batty men.
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