Will iLife be part of Leopard?
Some of the programs in iLife are a lot about managing files. Take iPhoto and iTunes for example. But isn't this what the Finder is for? Why do we have two programs on the Mac to do this?
I would like to see these file management functions be part of the OS. Since we currently have the left side bar of the Finder with folders for these file types, why not just popup the file management part of iTunes, iPhoto, etc right in the Finder window?
This makes perfect sense and I hope Apple does this. If not in Leopard, then at least in the next version of the OS. Keep us focused on our files not on an application. But I also think Apple can take things one step further. I also would like to see the other side of these programs develop into applets that then become part of the OS.
What about Apple bringing back the OpenDoc concept it was trying in Copland? Maybe this is what Apple is doing? However, rather than trying to bite everything off at once, they have divided the huge task into smaller steps. Separate apps first, then integrate them back into the OS.
Just as Apple has Core Audio, Core Video, Core Image, and Core Animation, what about other Cores for other things? Eventually we not only have all these Cores function underneath, but also have the apps that manipulate the data become Core to the OS. So we end up with video editing, audio editing, image editing, text editing, etc becoming part of the OS itself.
This is similar to Quicktime and how audio and video files play right in the finder. There is usually no need to open the Quicktime app. I want the same thing for most photos, audio files, even documents . For example, when I click on a video file, I don't want to open an app. I just want the file to play or show up. Same with Preview and pdfs. It could be right in the finder window or if I set my preferences, will open in a separate window. One click on a file and the document comes up in a window but still no visible application is launched.
One could still have applications up and running in the background but they are not visible and don't take CPU cycles unless they are needed. They load up at startup in the background and are there waiting for you whenever you need them. If you are short of memory then it only loads in the ones you want or the most recent. It could even guess your needs based on where you are navigating in the finder. So audio, video, photos, documents, even presentations all pop right up in window and you never even think about which app they are associated with.
If you need pro level editing, then you have the pro level apps that you start up and use. So FCP, DVD StudioPro, Logic, etc. still have a place and fulfill a need. All you need to do is right click instead of double click and the appropriate pro app starts up. This is just what I do in iPhoto now.
Apple could even merge email, iCal, Dictionary, Address Book and Notes into the Finder. After all, most of these programs also are mainly file management programs for a specific datatype. Finder could even include Safari bookmarks. Apple could make all these apps run in the background and a user wouldn't even know they are there. A simple New menu option in the Finder could give you a selection of document types to create. If you want multiple windows open then you just tear off a tab.
Does anybody else see how this all fits together? As RAM increases, the old Copland concept seems the wave of the future. Apple tried this with Copland but failed and went to NextStep instead. However, there is no reason why the OpenDoc concept couldn't work. This would explain why Apple is creating all the apps that they are. Maybe OS 11 will be this total integration. Apple meanwhile is building all the parts to the puzzle. When it is ready, it will all be fused together and Apple's new OS will seem so advanced yet so familiar.
I would like to see these file management functions be part of the OS. Since we currently have the left side bar of the Finder with folders for these file types, why not just popup the file management part of iTunes, iPhoto, etc right in the Finder window?
This makes perfect sense and I hope Apple does this. If not in Leopard, then at least in the next version of the OS. Keep us focused on our files not on an application. But I also think Apple can take things one step further. I also would like to see the other side of these programs develop into applets that then become part of the OS.
What about Apple bringing back the OpenDoc concept it was trying in Copland? Maybe this is what Apple is doing? However, rather than trying to bite everything off at once, they have divided the huge task into smaller steps. Separate apps first, then integrate them back into the OS.
Just as Apple has Core Audio, Core Video, Core Image, and Core Animation, what about other Cores for other things? Eventually we not only have all these Cores function underneath, but also have the apps that manipulate the data become Core to the OS. So we end up with video editing, audio editing, image editing, text editing, etc becoming part of the OS itself.
This is similar to Quicktime and how audio and video files play right in the finder. There is usually no need to open the Quicktime app. I want the same thing for most photos, audio files, even documents . For example, when I click on a video file, I don't want to open an app. I just want the file to play or show up. Same with Preview and pdfs. It could be right in the finder window or if I set my preferences, will open in a separate window. One click on a file and the document comes up in a window but still no visible application is launched.
One could still have applications up and running in the background but they are not visible and don't take CPU cycles unless they are needed. They load up at startup in the background and are there waiting for you whenever you need them. If you are short of memory then it only loads in the ones you want or the most recent. It could even guess your needs based on where you are navigating in the finder. So audio, video, photos, documents, even presentations all pop right up in window and you never even think about which app they are associated with.
If you need pro level editing, then you have the pro level apps that you start up and use. So FCP, DVD StudioPro, Logic, etc. still have a place and fulfill a need. All you need to do is right click instead of double click and the appropriate pro app starts up. This is just what I do in iPhoto now.
Apple could even merge email, iCal, Dictionary, Address Book and Notes into the Finder. After all, most of these programs also are mainly file management programs for a specific datatype. Finder could even include Safari bookmarks. Apple could make all these apps run in the background and a user wouldn't even know they are there. A simple New menu option in the Finder could give you a selection of document types to create. If you want multiple windows open then you just tear off a tab.
Does anybody else see how this all fits together? As RAM increases, the old Copland concept seems the wave of the future. Apple tried this with Copland but failed and went to NextStep instead. However, there is no reason why the OpenDoc concept couldn't work. This would explain why Apple is creating all the apps that they are. Maybe OS 11 will be this total integration. Apple meanwhile is building all the parts to the puzzle. When it is ready, it will all be fused together and Apple's new OS will seem so advanced yet so familiar.
Comments
However, with Apple's increasing Marketshare I don't want them to start killing off their 3rd party developers, and would still like a choice in Applications rather than using the Finder for everything.
Sebastian
However, having separate applications—even smaller ones—has it's benefits. I multitask. Heavily. I'll leave Preview open with a half read PDF for most of the day, and come back to it later. When I want that PDF? Just click on Preview in the Dock. If everything were in the Finder, I'd have to sort through 20 windows of movies and images and PDFs and God knows what else would launch in there.
Your method offers zero benefits over the existing setup other than, "that's interesting." But it's rife with major usability issues.
Major example for me would be outlook on windows. It does contact, calendars and mail. I have to use it at work and find it cumbersome and often hard to handle. In fact most colleagues just use paper organizers because they won't be bothered to learn how the outlook calendar thing works. I just use google calendar. I also higly prefer separate the separate apps iCal, Mail and contacts on my Mac.
There are a couple different paradigms at work here. One paradigm is being application centered or file centered. What we have now is application centered computing. Where I think the future is is in file centered computing. For example, if I want to see a photo, I shouldn't open Photoshop, iPhoto, or Preview first, I just find and look at it. Only if I want to edit the photo do I access the editing tools. Even then I don't think of application as much as function. This is right in line with Object-oriented computing: classes, instances, and methods.
The other paradigm at work here is file management. iPhoto and iTunes use a better way to manage files then the Finder. In fact Spotlight brings some of this new concept to the Finder but it is still lacking a lot of convenient metadata information. For example in iTunes, rather than putting most of my music in separate folders I just have a central library with lots of metadata info. I use the search field to instantly find what I want because the library metadata is indexed.
Of course I could still use folders if needed too. However, folders should not be the norm but only used for special situations. Folders should not be thought of as where the information is as much as a reference to the actual file in the library. Files can then be in multiple folders at once and easily managed. The way things are in the Finder now, files are in one location and not easily in another.
This is a big issue with sound libraries too. Garageband, Soundtrack Pro, and Logic each have their own sound samples in different locations. What is needed is a central location to manage all this data. Same with Fonts. Practically everything on a computer should be in a database and indexed with metadata info.
Same with video data. Managing video files between FCP, DVD-SP, Motion, LiveType, Compressor, even between multiple FCP projects is a real pain. Applications are dumb about how to manage the database. Finder is too primitive. We need a much smarter Finder and OS.
I think Apple gets this and is moving towards this but I wish it would move even faster. iTunes, iPhoto, Mail, Notes, Address book, Dictionary, iCal, Font Book - these all help. But what we need is an integrated Finder and OS for managing all this. And I'm ready for applets in the background using all those extra processors too. I want things to be simplified and hide the complexity underneath.
I think the world needs a new Finder and OpenDoc.
It seems to me like this is only superficially different from the way things are right now. For instance, Preview takes what, 0.6 seconds to launch? Even if it were integrated into the Finder, it would still take 0.6 seconds for Finder to launch its PDF library.
However, having separate applications?even smaller ones?has it's benefits. I multitask. Heavily. I'll leave Preview open with a half read PDF for most of the day, and come back to it later. When I want that PDF? Just click on Preview in the Dock. If everything were in the Finder, I'd have to sort through 20 windows of movies and images and PDFs and God knows what else would launch in there.
Your method offers zero benefits over the existing setup other than, "that's interesting." But it's rife with major usability issues.
Speaking of Preview, one of the features I've seen in screenshots of Leopard is Quick Look. Translation: I'll never have to bother with Preview again
Sebastian
(Yes I prefer Adobe Reader for PDFs)
What? Get out of here.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you. Have you been lobotomized? Do you enjoy pain? Frustration? Do you cut yourself? Pull out your hair?
I feel like we should send you to a therapist.
Okay, I see your point a little bit better now.
I don't think that the OpenDoc method is quite right; but I do agree with you that apps need to intercommunicate better.
The question is specifically how to solve this.
The OS would keep a central database of all data and things would be indexed just like Spotlight. The big difference is that it would present a unified way of finding and organizing data. Right now we have both - the new and old. This makes things complex when they do not need to be. After working in iPhoto and iTunes I have come to see the benefits of this new way of working.
The problem with Spotlight and Finder is that it doesn't have much metadata to work with. In iPhoto I assign keywords, or metadata to each photo. So for example if I want to find a photo with one of my sons, I just type his name into the search field and all photos with him in it pop up. Finder cannot do this. Spotlight is getting there. I want to merge the power of metadata with the Finder. That is why iTunes, iPhoto and other database like programs should be incorporated into the OS Finder.
I don't know much about the BeOS but I heard that they had everything in an OS database using metadata and indexes. I think Apple is slowly adding this too. They did a lot of this back with NeXT. I really think this is what we will see in a future version of an Apple OS. I just don't know when. However, the fact that iLife seems to be more closely tied to Leopard seems to support this shift.
I am surprised how little analysis and speculation goes on about future OS developments. People can bring up pie-in-the-sky ideas that might be fifty years away, or they talk about little things 6 months out. I would like to see more discussion about what we will realistically see over the next 5 years.
For example, when the iPhone came out, a lot of the technology was new and cool. Yet, most of the pieces of the puzzle were public knowledge for years. People complained they wanted an Apple phone or a PDA but not too many people actually proposed what it should look like. THose who did had a very narrow focus and just stayed within the existing paradigms. Even more, most people still haven't thought through how a handheld computer will change the way we work and communicate.
People want rumors and that is fine. But there is no reason why we can't do many of the same things the people at Apple do when they think up new products and software. They have very little special information we don't have. Even without rumors we should be able to flag important developments and propose new solutions to put together a good picture where things are going. Think of it as the CIA for tech. We can put two and two together and figure out four before it happens.
Some of this goes on at the rumor sites and that is why I read them regularly. However, I have to wade through mountains of trash to find the nuggets of information. The site editors do some of this for us but still a lot more could be done.
I'd love to see a rumor site harvest the best of the data and try and put it together into a picture of what the future is going to look like. I know it won't always be right on. But I think we can get many things right. I think macrumors.com does a good job analyzing trends with their buyers guide. It takes many rumors and packages them into a short summary that actually is quite handy. I would like to see more of that.
I think engadget.com and this site also do some of this but I still think there is a demand for good analysis in short summaries that I can then dig down if desired. And not just for Apple, but for all tech. Where are video cameras going? What about digital SLRs? What about television? What about cell phones and internet access? I think things are changing faster then they ever have in the past. I spend a lot of time trawling for data nuggets. I wish there was a website that did this. I would be willing to pay big money for this info too.
Maybe it already exists and if so, let me know. Otherwise, I will keep doing my own research.
Now if Apple could just update that FInder...
What? Get out of here.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you. Have you been lobotomized? Do you enjoy pain? Frustration? Do you cut yourself? Pull out your hair?
I feel like we should send you to a therapist.
No, that's the entire reason I downloaded Adobe Reader 8. Preview was all of the above and more.
I hate the way Preview handles different Pages and I hate the way it handles different sizes. I couldn't just get a document that uses 8.5x11" to display like so I can scroll down. I had to go through the insideous process of Zooming in until it looks about right, dragging that insidious corner on the bottom right, and adjusting.
Sebastian
Also, like someone else touched on, it's good having more then one program, as opposed to one giant program rules all. Look at Windows Media Player. It does everything, however, is it the simplest thing around the block? Hell's no. iTunes, QuickTime, together whoop Windows Media Player into Tim Buck Two.
Do you see my point? Now god knows we need a better Finder, but it doesn't need to be one giant program.
No, that's the entire reason I downloaded Adobe Reader 8. Preview was all of the above and more.
I hate the way Preview handles different Pages and I hate the way it handles different sizes. I couldn't just get a document that uses 8.5x11" to display like so I can scroll down. I had to go through the insideous process of Zooming in until it looks about right, dragging that insidious corner on the bottom right, and adjusting.
Sebastian
Um, check out the View menu. You can set it to Scrolling, Zoom to Fit, etc. That plus the green Zoom button should do everything you need.
There. Now you can spend 5 hours less each day waiting for Adobe Reader to load.
Um, check out the View menu. You can set it to Scrolling, Zoom to Fit, etc. That plus the green Zoom button should do everything you need.
There. Now you can spend 5 hours less each day waiting for Adobe Reader to load.
1) That stupid Zoom Button is the very thing I hate
2) Adobe Reader actually loads faster for me, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
3) I don't plan on switching back to Preview. Adobe Reader defaults to actual size just fine for me and I don't need to bother adjusting the size every time I open a PDF.
Sebastian
1) That stupid Zoom Button is the very thing I hate
2) Adobe Reader actually loads faster for me, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
3) I don't plan on switching back to Preview. Adobe Reader defaults to actual size just fine for me and I don't need to bother adjusting the size every time I open a PDF.
Sebastian
1) The Zoom button works just the way it should in Preview. Try it.
2) Either Adobe rewrote Reader 8 from scratch or you're lying. Reader 7 takes hours to load. Preview takes seconds.
3) You set the defaults once and it saves them forever. In this respect, it's actually much smarter than Adobe Reader.
1) The Zoom button works just the way it should in Preview. Try it.
2) Either Adobe rewrote Reader 8 from scratch or you're lying. Reader 7 takes hours to load. Preview takes seconds.
3) You set the defaults once and it saves them forever. In this respect, it's actually much smarter than Adobe Reader.
1) Yeah it works as it's supposed to and that's the problem. I don't want to Zoom, I want it Actual Size without guessing and dragging that insideous corner.
2) I think it is rewritten from Scratch. It's certainly MUCH better then Reader 7.
3) Well tell that to Preview who still opens PDFs about 3 sizes too small for readability.
Sebastian
iTunes is a great app. iPhoto is a great app. There is no need whatsoever to strip these away and put them in the Finder.