Apple deleting embarrassing tech support threads
My system wouldn't restart after installing the 10.4.9 update. It would load to the grey screen, and sit there forever. Safe mode didn't work, clearing the PRAM didn't work. Hard disk was not damaged.
After the incredibly frustrating attempts at getting support (the Apple support site seems to be designed to frustrate...), I posted on Apple's official support forum detailing my problem.
Then, I contacted in turn each of the 4 authorized service people here in Chennai, India where I'm working for the next 4 months. They all said the only way to go was to re-install OSX. The problem is none of them had the proper "region" DVD for my MacBook Pro, and mine is in a drawer at my apartment back home. I bought it in Europe. 2 of them contacted Apple directly and got the same response - Apple won't send those DVDs to India - some sort of problem proving that I legally purchased the Macbook Pro - they'll send it to USA or Australia, but not India!!!
Anyways, eventually, I went back to the Apple support site to see if there were any replies to my first message, but they "disappeared". Of course, there's nobody to directly contact, so I don't have anybody to ask why they removed my search for answers to a serious problem. Eventually, I found this link (via AppleInsider, woot!)
http://net3x.blogspot.com/2007/03/ma...ed-my-mac.html
There, I discovered that at least 30 other people had the same problem (so far). There's also a relatively nasty workaround involving using a second computer to dL the update, mount it in terminal, and then use the Unix language to reinstall the update. I could also use an Indian OSX disc, as the region problem doesn't affect the terminal functionality. It actually reminded me of the last big crash I had on Windows, when I had to go command-line and rescue windows 95 using DOS!
So problem solved - however, on that blogspot link I found reports that several other threads reporting the same problem at Apple support were also deleted. Indeed, if you go to Apple support, it's as though there is no problem with the 10.4.9 update.
Is this how Apple protects it's image as being "more stable" and "easier to use" than Windows?
It makes the already bad Apple support (the only way to contact a real apple support person is by paying, and no software or updates are guaranteed...) also seem kind of fascist, no?
Anyone else have this kind of experience or thoughts on getting help from apple? I don't think I should have to pay for AppleCare to get support for faulty OSX updates...
After the incredibly frustrating attempts at getting support (the Apple support site seems to be designed to frustrate...), I posted on Apple's official support forum detailing my problem.
Then, I contacted in turn each of the 4 authorized service people here in Chennai, India where I'm working for the next 4 months. They all said the only way to go was to re-install OSX. The problem is none of them had the proper "region" DVD for my MacBook Pro, and mine is in a drawer at my apartment back home. I bought it in Europe. 2 of them contacted Apple directly and got the same response - Apple won't send those DVDs to India - some sort of problem proving that I legally purchased the Macbook Pro - they'll send it to USA or Australia, but not India!!!
Anyways, eventually, I went back to the Apple support site to see if there were any replies to my first message, but they "disappeared". Of course, there's nobody to directly contact, so I don't have anybody to ask why they removed my search for answers to a serious problem. Eventually, I found this link (via AppleInsider, woot!)
http://net3x.blogspot.com/2007/03/ma...ed-my-mac.html
There, I discovered that at least 30 other people had the same problem (so far). There's also a relatively nasty workaround involving using a second computer to dL the update, mount it in terminal, and then use the Unix language to reinstall the update. I could also use an Indian OSX disc, as the region problem doesn't affect the terminal functionality. It actually reminded me of the last big crash I had on Windows, when I had to go command-line and rescue windows 95 using DOS!
So problem solved - however, on that blogspot link I found reports that several other threads reporting the same problem at Apple support were also deleted. Indeed, if you go to Apple support, it's as though there is no problem with the 10.4.9 update.
Is this how Apple protects it's image as being "more stable" and "easier to use" than Windows?
It makes the already bad Apple support (the only way to contact a real apple support person is by paying, and no software or updates are guaranteed...) also seem kind of fascist, no?
Anyone else have this kind of experience or thoughts on getting help from apple? I don't think I should have to pay for AppleCare to get support for faulty OSX updates...
Comments
Here's my take:
1) You're in India. India right now is a real piracy problem. If you called Apple directly, without proof of purchase, and ask for DVDs to be sent to you for free, can you see how that might be a problem for them? I am surprised about them not sending to an authorized support site, however. That's just bonkers.
2) The DVD region locking is thanks to the movie studios. It has nothing to do with the OS installation, and it's unfortunate that you're getting bitten by that here. Sadly, this is done at the hardware level in the DVD mechanism. Doesn't help you get it fixed, but I hope it gives you some ideas about how to go about finding a workaround for similar situations in the future. (There are tools that let you, sometimes, remove the region lock on your DVD mechanism.)
3) I'm not sure what you mean by having to pay to get a live person. I call, I get a person, they're helpful.
4) Deletion of threads on the support pages is a long-standing issue. I think they're entirely within their rights to delete threads that offer no content or useful information, but sometimes they do show what I'd consider questionable judgment in which ones they remove. On the other hand, if you look in there, it's not like there aren't *any* threads with complaints. Obviously, they do allow a large number of complaints to remain.
I've always had stellar support from Apple - recently they fixed a 3+ year old PowerBook G4 that was three months past the maximum AppleCare extension, for free. Motherboard, no less. I called, told them the symptoms, thinking it was a bad battery that I had just received from them in the recall exchange, they said that it sounded like the motherboard instead... but that they'd take care of it anyway. 48 hr turnaround, new battery, repaired machine, and I was back in business.
I think you're running into a boundary case of DVD region locking (which is just stupid, anti-competitive, and anti-consumer... thank the movie studios for that idiocy), and being in the 'wrong' country.
FWIW, when I travel I have my installer discs and a DiscWarrior CD with me at all times for cases just like this. You just never know.
Second, these aren't random strangers who can't get the proper CDs - they're "official" Apple service people listed on Apple's home page as the people I should have contacted with the problem. It's ridiculous that they would not have access to the basic materials to fix a new MacBook. Apple is supposed to be geared towards professionals, and yes, professionals travel. India has the largest Computer industry, largest IT industry, and largest film industry in the world, and the 2nd largest music industry - aren't we among the people they should be giving access to support to?
Finally, how do you get free phone support? The website says phone support is free for the first 90 days of a new computer purchase, and indeed when I called (the Danish hotline, because the Indian one is shut down indefinitely), I was asked for my serial number, whether I have AppleCare (no), and then for my credit card number (bought the laptop in November...). When I explained the situation, the girl on the phone said, sorry, but she's not the tech and she can't forward me without billing info.
In regards to Apple removing threads that "offer no content or useful information", i left a detailed explanation of a real problem which others were also suffering from. It's not like they combined them all into a single thread, either. There's still nothing on their site about 10.4.9 disabling systems... By comparison, my previous computer, a Dell had it's share of problems, but they could always be solved by the Windows tech support site, which seems to have everything in it, even if it's sometimes cluttered with 5 or 10 instances of each. And when I had questions about upgrading my 4 year-old laptop, I emailed Dell customer service (!) and they got back to me (in around 4 or 5 days). They actually have an email address!!
Anyways, an iPod was supposed to replace traveling around with CDs ;-) - why would I ever want to carry around installation CDs for a computer I paid this much money for and chose in part based on it's compactness and inclusiveness? It's ridiculous - it's a global company that claims to be service minded and the website touts that it has service professionals all over the world. It's not like I'm in Bhutan or Antarctica...
It makes the already bad Apple support (the only way to contact a real apple support person is by paying, and no software or updates are guaranteed...) also seem kind of fascist, no?
Wait. They deleted some threads from their forums and refused to send you a boot disk. Thats exactly what fascism is all about.
Reminds me of my last job in tech support where I was accused of being a Nazi and forcing people into communism (go figure).
But, I'm somewhat baffled by this region lock problem you're having - surely that only applies to video DVDs, not data disks?
I agree with you about the tech office not being sent the media - that's just kind of silly. Wait... now I'm really confused - despite what I implied above, DVD Regions shouldn't have anything to do with a data disc like an installer DVD. (Unless Apple is using the region coding to 'protect' OS X install discs, which would be stupid, IMO...) WTF? Why would the copy they had on hand not work? Why couldn't they hook your machine in Firewire Target Mode to one of theirs, and perform the fix that way? I'm smelling a rat on the local end...
As for phone support, you got me - I call, I talk, they fix. Perhaps it's because I *had* AppleCare on the latest laptop in question, and that it was concerning a battery recall issue, that they were willing to speak with me without question.
I suppose I shouldn't tell you that I still have a first gen 5GB iPod precisely for the FireWire port on it... I *can* boot from it in a pinch, and have.
Agreed that something is fishy here - you should have been taken care of locally without a problem.
Edit: While this is a US toll free number, so it probably won't work outside the US, here's an interesting wrinkle you may want to try: http://consumerist.com/consumer/appl...-hp-245042.php
Wait. They deleted some threads from their forums and refused to send you a boot disk. Thats exactly what fascism is all about.
Sorry that was a metaphor...
You know, eliminating problems by "deleting" them - like in a fascist state...