Laying Patio Tile
Hi all.
I'm about to embark on another tiling project: my patio. Right now, it's a concrete slab covered in cheap brick that has not weathered well. It's chipping and cracking and breaking all over the place. I'm going to pull it all up and put down clay tile in its place.
A few questions:
1) I've got pretty good drainage, I think. Maybe a bead or half a bead near the house. Is that enough? Or do I need to build up the slab a little? If I do build it up, can I do that with grout or do I need to use some kind of special cement or mortar?
2) Do I need to put anything beneath the tile or can I just adhese it to the slab? I only ask because this is exterior. My gut says I can just slap it on there, grout, and seal and I'll be good.
Thanks in advance.
I'm about to embark on another tiling project: my patio. Right now, it's a concrete slab covered in cheap brick that has not weathered well. It's chipping and cracking and breaking all over the place. I'm going to pull it all up and put down clay tile in its place.
A few questions:
1) I've got pretty good drainage, I think. Maybe a bead or half a bead near the house. Is that enough? Or do I need to build up the slab a little? If I do build it up, can I do that with grout or do I need to use some kind of special cement or mortar?
2) Do I need to put anything beneath the tile or can I just adhese it to the slab? I only ask because this is exterior. My gut says I can just slap it on there, grout, and seal and I'll be good.
Thanks in advance.
Comments
Hi all.
I'm about to embark on another tiling project: my patio. Right now, it's a concrete slab covered in cheap brick that has not weathered well. It's chipping and cracking and breaking all over the place. I'm going to pull it all up and put down clay tile in its place.
A few questions:
1) I've got pretty good drainage, I think. Maybe a bead or half a bead near the house. Is that enough? Or do I need to build up the slab a little? If I do build it up, can I do that with grout or do I need to use some kind of special cement or mortar?
2) Do I need to put anything beneath the tile or can I just adhese it to the slab? I only ask because this is exterior. My gut says I can just slap it on there, grout, and seal and I'll be good.
Thanks in advance.
I'm not an experienced tiler, but I've done my share of improvement projects.
1. I would slope it away a bit, maybe 1/4" over 10 feet or so. Is that what you're asking?
2. My gut tells me you can just slap it on there with the adhesive. I just read a link that showed it being done that way. Strike that...make it two links. Try this...
http://www.ronhazelton.com/howto/tile_patio.htm
Good luck, mid. I used to "DIY" a lot. When I buy my next house I think I may not anymore. I about destroyed my back building a deck a few years ago. I worked on it more than I used it. Anyway....
I'm not an experienced tiler, but I've done my share of improvement projects.
1. I would slope it away a bit, maybe 1/4" over 10 feet or so. Is that what you're asking?
Yeah. Sorry i wasn't more clear. I mean a "bead" on the level.
2. My gut tells me you can just slap it on there with the adhesive. I just read a link that showed it being done that way. Strike that...make it two links. Try this...
http://www.ronhazelton.com/howto/tile_patio.htm
Awesome. I just did a little test project with the tile I want on our kitchen stoop. Stuff sure is pretty; I wish I could grout it now!
Good luck, mid. I used to "DIY" a lot. When I buy my next house I think I may not anymore. I about destroyed my back building a deck a few years ago. I worked on it more than I used it. Anyway....
I slipped a disc about a year ago, so I feel your pain. And I'd really not like to feel it again. Ever.
Hi all.
2) Do I need to put anything beneath the tile or can I just adhese it to the slab? I only ask because this is exterior. My gut says I can just slap it on there, grout, and seal and I'll be good.
Thanks in advance.
When I re-did my bathroom, I used a pre-mixed bucket of thinset that was "high strength and waterproof." It was kind of like caulk. You may want to look into using this, since it's pretty much immune to erosion. On the other hand, standard thinset is definitely more eco-friendly and I don't know how hard it rans in Utah.
If you curious about tiling to a slab, don't be. It's the easiest surface to deal with, as very little prep is required and all you need to do is throw some thinset on there.
--Make sure your slab is flat-- bumps and dips make things very frustrating (I'm sure you know this from your interior job).
--You should have some kind of slope away from the house, I've always heard 1/4" per foot. That's good for the house, of course, but pooling water on tile and freezing temps equal busted tile.
--Be fierce about your surface prep. Be fierce about your surface prep. Be fierce about your surface prep.
--Choose tile that doesn't take on much if any water or your Utah winters will have their way with it. The folks at wherever you buy your tile can guide you. Ditto the mortar, sealant and grout.
--And depending on the size of the slab you may need to consider expansion joints. Just use polyurethane caulk instead of mortar every 12' or so in each direction.
Couple of things:
--Make sure your slab is flat-- bumps and dips make things very frustrating (I'm sure you know this from your interior job).
--You should have some kind of slope away from the house, I've always heard 1/4" per foot. That's good for the house, of course, but pooling water on tile and freezing temps equal busted tile.
--Be fierce about your surface prep. Be fierce about your surface prep. Be fierce about your surface prep.
--Choose tile that doesn't take on much if any water or your Utah winters will have their way with it. The folks at wherever you buy your tile can guide you. Ditto the mortar, sealant and grout.
--And depending on the size of the slab you may need to consider expansion joints. Just use polyurethane caulk instead of mortar every 12' or so in each direction.
Adda:
Thanks for the advice. 1/4" per foot sounds extreme, doesn't it? I don't think there's much prep involved here other than clearing the brick and sweeping off the sand. The patio slab is 14' x15', so it's not very big. As for the water...unfortunately, I want to use clay tile, which *does* take on water. But I'm gonna seal the hell out of it. One more choppy sentence so I can have an odd number in this paragraph.
And I'd never considered expansion joints. That's interesting. This spot would soak up a lot of heat, even after I build my pergola mit retractable shade a la the Roman coliseum. Basically, I want to cover it with a pergola that features swaths of cloth I can pull out and retract for shade, as needed.
Adda:
Thanks for the advice. 1/4" per foot sounds extreme, doesn't it? I don't think there's much prep involved here other than clearing the brick and sweeping off the sand. The patio slab is 14' x15', so it's not very big. As for the water...unfortunately, I want to use clay tile, which *does* take on water. But I'm gonna seal the hell out of it. One more choppy sentence so I can have an odd number in this paragraph.
And I'd never considered expansion joints. That's interesting. This spot would soak up a lot of heat, even after I build my pergola mit retractable shade a la the Roman coliseum. Basically, I want to cover it with a pergola that features swaths of cloth I can pull out and retract for shade, as needed.
You know, as I wrote that I thought "That's what I've always heard but now that I think about it for a moment it sounds kinda extreme." I would think you would want maybe a couple three inches of drop across your 14'. Maybe once you get the brick off you could hose it down and see if there is any puddling.
I would at least give the slab a TSP and wire brush go over. This is because I very much enjoy recommending back breaking labor I'm not responsible for. Also, be sure to seal any cracks. Clean them out with a toothbrush and cotton swaps, first. Using a jeweler's loupe. At night.
I would ask around some more about the clay tile. There might be a particular type that is meant for outdoor use where it freezes. But in general, I think there's a reason we associate clay tile with Mediterranean climes.
I love the word pergola. Pergola. And you have paired it with "swaths", so I'm pretty sure your patio will be magnificent.
Yeah. I'm that guy who drives halfway to work and turns around to make sure he shut, not just locked, but SHUT the front door.
And dude, one thing I've learned is that if you're the least bit OCD, laying tile is the perfect activity. Except for the simple fact that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A STRAIGHT WALL.
Clearly, we need more OCD carpenters.
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This post brought to you by page 112 of Marcus Borg's Jesus, two glasses of a fine box merlot, and Tori Amos's wonderful CD Scarlet's Walk.
Operators are cautioned to observe all relevant local ordinances and to avoid allowing the freshly treated grout to make contact with any contaminating agents, including but no limited to pollen, dust, sand, grit, moisture, debris, vegetation, soot, ash, eddies, zephyrs or darkness.
Failure to follow these instructions will result in the voiding of all warrantees, express or implied, failure of the bonding surface and unsafe conditions.
Mandatory except where prohibited.
I was waiting for someone to notice that.
You know, as I wrote that I thought "That's what I've always heard but now that I think about it for a moment it sounds kinda extreme." I would think you would want maybe a couple three inches of drop across your 14'. Maybe once you get the brick off you could hose it down and see if there is any puddling.
I would at least give the slab a TSP and wire brush go over. This is because I very much enjoy recommending back breaking labor I'm not responsible for. Also, be sure to seal any cracks. Clean them out with a toothbrush and cotton swaps, first. Using a jeweler's loupe. At night.
I would ask around some more about the clay tile. There might be a particular type that is meant for outdoor use where it freezes. But in general, I think there's a reason we associate clay tile with Mediterranean climes.
I love the word pergola. Pergola. And you have paired it with "swaths", so I'm pretty sure your patio will be magnificent.
Dude...a quarter inch per foot? That sounds REALLY extreme. I think I did my deck at like 1/4 or a 1/2 over like 16 feet. I could be wrong...that's just what I remember.
[edit]: Google Search for 'patio water drainage pitch inches' returns these quotes from the top 3 results:
After excavation is complete, set up form boards around the perimeter setting the top of the form where the finished patio will be. At this point, care should be taken to allow for drainage off the patio, so water will not remain after a storm. A pitch of 1/4" for every foot will be sufficient for drainage. The form boards should be set to take in this pitch of the patio.
If using a poured concrete slab, or other solid surface, make sure there is proper drainage of water away from the house, as water will get into the porch during storms. Most builders consider 1/4-inch slope per foot the proper design for a concrete patio. For a 12-foot porch this would be 3 inches, and this is too much for a porch constructed on a slab. For the porch shown, a pitch of 1 inch for the 12-foot length was used.
The second quote suggests you might be able to get away with a bit less, but there you go.