Othello, if there is no updfate to OS X then why not make it default now. The only real reason is that OS X is still 'work in progress'. I would say that the next release is going to be another big improvement.
I would suggest that it means better support for various devices and in particular printers. A faster finder and more apps.
Personally I love the platform but can't stand the speed. I have just recieved the Office X upgrade and damm it is slower that the old version running in carbon!
Woo hoo! You can never have enough speed, hardware support is always welcome, and hopefully they'll squash the long list of annoying bugs and 'features' in the update which will come sometime before March.
<strong>No, it just means when OS X is the default.
Othello, if there is no updfate to OS X then why not make it default now. The only real reason is that OS X is still 'work in progress'. I would say that the next release is going to be another big improvement.
I would suggest that it means better support for various devices and in particular printers. A faster finder and more apps.
Personally I love the platform but can't stand the speed. I have just recieved the Office X upgrade and damm it is slower that the old version running in carbon!</strong><hr></blockquote>
That has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with 3rd party apps. Right now Mac users would be pissed if they boght a new computer and most of there apps did not work for OS X. By saying this it dose not mean 10.2 or 10.whatever will be out (althogh I am sure it will be by then) it simaply means ower favoirit apps (PS, FCP, GoLive, flash ect) will be out my march. :-D I can not wait!
That has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with 3rd party apps</strong><hr></blockquote>
And you know this.. how? There's no reason to believe this has more to do with a software update than application availability, or vice versa. It could be either or both, and not even you knows what Apple's collective intentions are. There's no sense in arguing about this, you see.
By the way you misspelled the following words: their, does, although, simply, our, favorite, etc.
"By the way you misspelled the following words: their, does, although, simply, our, favorite, etc."
Cheap shot. It doesn't negate the fact that nearly every statement from Apple reiterates that they want to wait for the apps to be totally in X before proceeding to make the system the default. I'm sure that updating X is important too, but lack of important apps is the #1 priority.
By the way you misspelled the following words: their, does, although, simply, our, favorite, etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny, in the beginning I was absolutely horrified at Michael's spelling atrocities. NOW, whenever I read his posts, I find them kinda comforting, in an odd sort of way.
I can remember going to a parent teacher interview to meet my daughter's teacher some years ago. My daughter is fluent in Japanese and English, but as you can imagine this has meant inconsistent progress in the mechanics of each language. One statement from the teacher has stayed with me:
"You daughter is making good progress in the transition from personal to dictionary spelling". My reply to her was
"So am I".
In fora such as these there is no call to comment upon the way posts are spelt or constructed...... the meaning is all that really counts.
I might have to agree with Michaelm8000 here. On the other hand...
Remember when Apple bought Raycer Graphics? Remember all the speculation over why? Remember? Remember all that? What if by March 2002 they updated all of their products with some sort of onboard Quartz accelerator like a lot of us had speculated they would?
<strong>I might have to agree with Michaelm8000 here. On the other hand...
Remember when Apple bought Raycer Graphics? Remember all the speculation over why? Remember? Remember all that? What if by March 2002 they updated all of their products with some sort of onboard Quartz accelerator like a lot of us had speculated they would?</strong><hr></blockquote>
quartz isn't all that slow anymore, especially on newer macs. most of the slowness experience now is just do to poor programming or lack of optimizations in some areas which would more likely be fixed in a future OS X release rather than dedicated hardware.
I believe the general consensus of what the Raycer people did is that they helped write Apple's OpenGL implementation
[quote]quartz isn't all that slow anymore <hr></blockquote>
Sorry, can't agree. I have a B & W G3-300 now upgraded with a Sonnet G4-500 and the finder is still terrible.
I have just upgraded to Office X from 2001 and there is no doubt that Office X is slower the 2001 in Classic.
OS X is just not ready for mainstream. Anyone considering moving to OS X from say a windows machine will be horrified by the sluggishness of the interface. Apple has to address this issue before the product is ready for mainstream.
Most of the popular apps run quite sucessfully in classic so that is not a good reason not to install it as default. The print centre is dreadful and so is driver support.
Apple can't aford to get this one wrong and forcing people to use this version of X isn't the right thing to do.
There's nothing in Phil's comment that indicates a particular version as being ready by March. JW, I think you're letting your own wants get in the way of your judgement. All he said (IF HE SAID IT AT ALL, the Register is less-than-reliable at times) was that March is a likely time-frame for Apple to make OS X the standard.
This could be for any number or combination of reasons, none of which were touched upon.
To my way of thinking, if it took 6 months to get 10.1 out the door, it will probably take 4-6 to get the next one out the door, given there will be more interface enhancements, more under-the-hood speed-ups, etc. Basically, they're working on all the same kinds of things as they did with 10.1
That means 10.2 would be out in March sometime, but this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Schiller's comment.
Also, I happen to know from various sources that a slew of Adobe's apps will be likely be released between the end of February and April. This too doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Phil's comment, but could certainly have some bearing on it.
From a business and marketing standpoint, ensuring that users have access to a majority of their favorite applications (that are native to the new OS being made "standard), is a lot more important than say being at v10.1 vs 10.2. The system is stable enough right now that you can use it for every day work, assuming you have the apps you need.
If the only apps anyone needed were say Illustrator and Office, Apple could make the switch right now. But there are a long list of fan favorites not ready for the big dance, as we all know.
Sorry, can't agree. I have a B & W G3-300 now upgraded with a Sonnet G4-500 and the finder is still terrible.
I have just upgraded to Office X from 2001 and there is no doubt that Office X is slower the 2001 in Classic.
OS X is just not ready for mainstream. Anyone considering moving to OS X from say a windows machine will be horrified by the sluggishness of the interface. Apple has to address this issue before the product is ready for mainstream.
Most of the popular apps run quite sucessfully in classic so that is not a good reason not to install it as default. The print centre is dreadful and so is driver support.
Apple can't aford to get this one wrong and forcing people to use this version of X isn't the right thing to do.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
finder is seperate and its slowness is not realted to Quartz... it's related to how crappy a program it is.
Office X runs great on my G4/400. Office 2001 ran like crap in 9.1
there is definitely room for improvement in the responsiveness of the GUI but its usable now on most machines 300Mhz and higher.
and you have to remember, the topic at hand is discussing when 10.x will be default OS on NEW machines. On new machines the GUI speed is not a major problem if a problem at all. it doesn't matter how poorly it works on older hardware fr it to be default.
[quote] and you have to remember, the topic at hand is discussing when 10.x will be default OS on NEW machines <hr></blockquote>
Fair comment, I was starting to stray.
[quote]If the only apps anyone needed were say Illustrator and Office, Apple could make the switch right now. <hr></blockquote>
I don't agree there are still a lot of issues with 10.1, unless your are lucky with your printer Apple could not risk dumping people in OS X, their support lines would glow red hot. Try reading this:
Comments
<strong>Accoring to "The Register"
Phil Schiller, Apple's VP of worldwide marketing, has gone on the record to suggest March as the date when new Macs ship with OS X as default.
This has to mean 10.2 will be out then.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, it just means when OS X is the default.
Othello, if there is no updfate to OS X then why not make it default now. The only real reason is that OS X is still 'work in progress'. I would say that the next release is going to be another big improvement.
I would suggest that it means better support for various devices and in particular printers. A faster finder and more apps.
Personally I love the platform but can't stand the speed. I have just recieved the Office X upgrade and damm it is slower that the old version running in carbon!
<strong>No, it just means when OS X is the default.
Othello, if there is no updfate to OS X then why not make it default now. The only real reason is that OS X is still 'work in progress'. I would say that the next release is going to be another big improvement.
I would suggest that it means better support for various devices and in particular printers. A faster finder and more apps.
Personally I love the platform but can't stand the speed. I have just recieved the Office X upgrade and damm it is slower that the old version running in carbon!</strong><hr></blockquote>
That has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with 3rd party apps. Right now Mac users would be pissed if they boght a new computer and most of there apps did not work for OS X. By saying this it dose not mean 10.2 or 10.whatever will be out (althogh I am sure it will be by then) it simaply means ower favoirit apps (PS, FCP, GoLive, flash ect) will be out my march. :-D I can not wait!
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/Menu3.html"; target="_blank">
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Michaelm8000 ]</p>
<strong>
That has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with 3rd party apps</strong><hr></blockquote>
And you know this.. how? There's no reason to believe this has more to do with a software update than application availability, or vice versa. It could be either or both, and not even you knows what Apple's collective intentions are. There's no sense in arguing about this, you see.
By the way you misspelled the following words: their, does, although, simply, our, favorite, etc.
Cheap shot. It doesn't negate the fact that nearly every statement from Apple reiterates that they want to wait for the apps to be totally in X before proceeding to make the system the default. I'm sure that updating X is important too, but lack of important apps is the #1 priority.
<strong>
By the way you misspelled the following words: their, does, although, simply, our, favorite, etc.
Funny, in the beginning I was absolutely horrified at Michael's spelling atrocities. NOW, whenever I read his posts, I find them kinda comforting, in an odd sort of way.
"You daughter is making good progress in the transition from personal to dictionary spelling". My reply to her was
"So am I".
In fora such as these there is no call to comment upon the way posts are spelt or constructed...... the meaning is all that really counts.
cheers
adam
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/Menu3.html"; target="_blank">
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Michaelm8000 ]</p>
10.1 is perfectly usable as an everyday OS right now. It does a good job offers more than OS 9 overall.
Why doesn't it ship default?
Because there are no major apps. everyone would either reboot or be stuck in classic which still is not a pretty experience.
so by March we should have most Adove titles, office, all new games, some old apps ported over, mass of drivers, etc.
That's why it will become defauly, not simply because of 10.2 or 10.5 or whatever they'll call the next significant release.
<strong>it's a bit of both IMO.
10.1 is perfectly usable as an everyday OS right now. It does a good job offers more than OS 9 overall.
Why doesn't it ship default?
Because there are no major apps. everyone would either reboot or be stuck in classic which still is not a pretty experience.
so by March we should have most Adove titles, office, all new games, some old apps ported over, mass of drivers, etc.
That's why it will become defauly, not simply because of 10.2 or 10.5 or whatever they'll call the next significant release.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is totaly what I am saying.
Remember when Apple bought Raycer Graphics? Remember all the speculation over why? Remember? Remember all that? What if by March 2002 they updated all of their products with some sort of onboard Quartz accelerator like a lot of us had speculated they would?
<strong>I might have to agree with Michaelm8000 here. On the other hand...
Remember when Apple bought Raycer Graphics? Remember all the speculation over why? Remember? Remember all that? What if by March 2002 they updated all of their products with some sort of onboard Quartz accelerator like a lot of us had speculated they would?</strong><hr></blockquote>
quartz isn't all that slow anymore, especially on newer macs. most of the slowness experience now is just do to poor programming or lack of optimizations in some areas which would more likely be fixed in a future OS X release rather than dedicated hardware.
I believe the general consensus of what the Raycer people did is that they helped write Apple's OpenGL implementation
Sorry, can't agree. I have a B & W G3-300 now upgraded with a Sonnet G4-500 and the finder is still terrible.
I have just upgraded to Office X from 2001 and there is no doubt that Office X is slower the 2001 in Classic.
OS X is just not ready for mainstream. Anyone considering moving to OS X from say a windows machine will be horrified by the sluggishness of the interface. Apple has to address this issue before the product is ready for mainstream.
Most of the popular apps run quite sucessfully in classic so that is not a good reason not to install it as default. The print centre is dreadful and so is driver support.
Apple can't aford to get this one wrong and forcing people to use this version of X isn't the right thing to do.
This could be for any number or combination of reasons, none of which were touched upon.
To my way of thinking, if it took 6 months to get 10.1 out the door, it will probably take 4-6 to get the next one out the door, given there will be more interface enhancements, more under-the-hood speed-ups, etc. Basically, they're working on all the same kinds of things as they did with 10.1
That means 10.2 would be out in March sometime, but this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Schiller's comment.
Also, I happen to know from various sources that a slew of Adobe's apps will be likely be released between the end of February and April. This too doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Phil's comment, but could certainly have some bearing on it.
From a business and marketing standpoint, ensuring that users have access to a majority of their favorite applications (that are native to the new OS being made "standard), is a lot more important than say being at v10.1 vs 10.2. The system is stable enough right now that you can use it for every day work, assuming you have the apps you need.
If the only apps anyone needed were say Illustrator and Office, Apple could make the switch right now. But there are a long list of fan favorites not ready for the big dance, as we all know.
<strong>
Sorry, can't agree. I have a B & W G3-300 now upgraded with a Sonnet G4-500 and the finder is still terrible.
I have just upgraded to Office X from 2001 and there is no doubt that Office X is slower the 2001 in Classic.
OS X is just not ready for mainstream. Anyone considering moving to OS X from say a windows machine will be horrified by the sluggishness of the interface. Apple has to address this issue before the product is ready for mainstream.
Most of the popular apps run quite sucessfully in classic so that is not a good reason not to install it as default. The print centre is dreadful and so is driver support.
Apple can't aford to get this one wrong and forcing people to use this version of X isn't the right thing to do.
finder is seperate and its slowness is not realted to Quartz... it's related to how crappy a program it is.
Office X runs great on my G4/400. Office 2001 ran like crap in 9.1
there is definitely room for improvement in the responsiveness of the GUI but its usable now on most machines 300Mhz and higher.
and you have to remember, the topic at hand is discussing when 10.x will be default OS on NEW machines. On new machines the GUI speed is not a major problem if a problem at all. it doesn't matter how poorly it works on older hardware fr it to be default.
Fair comment, I was starting to stray.
[quote]If the only apps anyone needed were say Illustrator and Office, Apple could make the switch right now. <hr></blockquote>
I don't agree there are still a lot of issues with 10.1, unless your are lucky with your printer Apple could not risk dumping people in OS X, their support lines would glow red hot. Try reading this:
<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]^[email protected]"; target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]^[email protected]</a>;
This problem does not manifest it self unless you have native OS X applications. If you are using classic printing is no sweat.
The reason I raise this is I believe it sahows that 10.1 is not ready even if there are lots of carbonised apps.
Obviously the two will go together and that will be fine. But my original point stands that if the quote is accurate is must mean 10.2