I may have discovered the best solution of all for Copy & Paste, and it's simple!
There was a funny video created last year that demoed a 'proof of concept' iPhone copy & paste system. About 2-3 weeks before that video was published I had started a thread here describing what I thought would be a good UI for copy & paste (delete, cut) etc. I basically said something similar to what happened in that video - only in my version the second finger was kept held down while the user dragged the iPhone text-loupe to the end point.
Although the video was funny, I found my idea of the copy & paste implementation to be more of an Apple-like procedure. I thought his solution required "at least" one too many taps. In my version the user would position the loupe at the starting point, add a second finger and drag "both" fingers to the end point. The iPhone's multi-touch would allow the loupe to stay positioned under the first finger while noting the addition of the second (two fingers means copy & paste time). When the user got to the ending point they would lift both fingers and the clipboard options would pop up. Choose an option and boom, it's that [Steve] simple!
I have since been asking myself the question; "If Apple went with either of these methods couldn't users keep accidentally tapping or touching a second finger, and thus this "feature" would keep annoying the crap out of them?" My solution to this "inevitable problem" was to turn Copy & Paste off by default and let the demo guy on Apple.com explain the feature and inform people to switch it on in Preferences. That just adds more complications though, and perhaps users would still keep on enabling the feature accidentally while simply positioning the loupe? I think they would.
To make a long(er) story short(er): I have a new and improved solution.
Position loupe at your chosen start-point, hold there for about 1.5 seconds (they could perfect the appropriate holding-time) at which point the text selector changes color from blue (to green or red), then the user drags newly colored text selector to the end-point, they then lift their "finger" and the clipboard options appear. Easy peasy Japanesy!!!
Only one finger required, and it's in a way similar to the way one can now edit the "Home Screen".
I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!
Although the video was funny, I found my idea of the copy & paste implementation to be more of an Apple-like procedure. I thought his solution required "at least" one too many taps. In my version the user would position the loupe at the starting point, add a second finger and drag "both" fingers to the end point. The iPhone's multi-touch would allow the loupe to stay positioned under the first finger while noting the addition of the second (two fingers means copy & paste time). When the user got to the ending point they would lift both fingers and the clipboard options would pop up. Choose an option and boom, it's that [Steve] simple!
I have since been asking myself the question; "If Apple went with either of these methods couldn't users keep accidentally tapping or touching a second finger, and thus this "feature" would keep annoying the crap out of them?" My solution to this "inevitable problem" was to turn Copy & Paste off by default and let the demo guy on Apple.com explain the feature and inform people to switch it on in Preferences. That just adds more complications though, and perhaps users would still keep on enabling the feature accidentally while simply positioning the loupe? I think they would.
To make a long(er) story short(er): I have a new and improved solution.
Position loupe at your chosen start-point, hold there for about 1.5 seconds (they could perfect the appropriate holding-time) at which point the text selector changes color from blue (to green or red), then the user drags newly colored text selector to the end-point, they then lift their "finger" and the clipboard options appear. Easy peasy Japanesy!!!
Only one finger required, and it's in a way similar to the way one can now edit the "Home Screen".
I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!
Comments
I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!
I'm convinced too. We just need to give them some time to figure a few things out first --it's a whole user interface, after all.
Hmm, well changing colors could work as an indicator... but um... I don't think accidently having 2 fingers would be much of a problem, there's already a delay before the loupe pops up, and if you had 2 fingers on there by accident, why not just lift one of the fingers to cancel the selection?
Sebastian
Who needs two fingers when this method uses one. In my opinion this new one finger method blows the two finger one away.
Apple should have gone really simple and limited at first. Only copy-paste text, and gradually expanded from there though.
My wife would love to switch to the iPhone. She's a Treo user. Because of the nature of her job she has to write and compose email and texts from the road. She's what I'd call a smart-phone power user. But "copy and paste" is a deal breaker for her.
Too bad, really. She eyes my iPhone jealously. But without "copy and paste" it's worthless to her.
Because if you stall in the middle of moving the cursor, then it turns into a text selection and you don't exactly provide a way to get out of that selection, the only way would be to lift your finger and then you'd have to cancel the clipboard options. At least with 2 fingers you could just lift one up to cancel. In other words, your method would probably increase frustration.
Sebastian
You haven't thought this through. Stalling at one point with the loupe present for 1.5 seconds (by accident) would likely never happen, and if it did it would be no different to stalling for 1.5 seconds when pressing an icon on the Home Screen.
Well at least Chris Pirillo agrees with me, and if you take the Home Screen edit feature into account, it seems Steve Jobs does too.
Yup, I was think this would be a problem when all of the easy finger gestures were taking up for zoom (2 finger spread and double tap) and scroll (finger down, move). There needs be some kind of selection mode to perform the copy. Enter it through a 2 finger gesture (like a "C" or "S" or something). Then, a bunch of smart-selection techniques could be employed. Single tap to select an image or word. Double tap for a sentence or URL. Fine-grained control using the loop. A list view with commands also needs to pop-up. Than there has to be paste command added an editing mode... it can be complicated no matter how simple the implementation.
Apple should have gone really simple and limited at first. Only copy-paste text, and gradually expanded from there though.
I refuse to believe you read my first comment.
Here's a self-quote from a recent email I sent:
After much deliberation on the matter I may have cracked it!
I think I have discovered the "perfect" Copy & Paste solution for Apple to implement on the iPhone.
Firstly I think the reason we haven't seen a solution to this problem yet is that Apple is unsure which method to use so that "all" users can grasp it. And they really want to get it right first time. Seeing as they are developing a new kind of user-interface here that will no doubt extend well past the realms of the iPhone, I think they are nervous they would add a feature that wasn't as good as the current mouse interface method for performing the same task. This UI is newer, so in theory it should be even easier to use. If it's not then people may ask why.
I am 99% sure my solution here is a new one. I have looked into this, I have seen the proof of concept videos and read all the forums. It came to me in a eureka moment. And like all good ideas it's brain-dead simple.
Here's my thinking C: You know the magnifying loupe on the iPhone? Well to bring that up (as you know) you hold your finger down for about 1/2 a second at any point in a text box. Here's the clever part... when you find the position where you want to start your Copy & Paste at you simply freeze, you hold that position (with loupe present) for about 1.5 seconds and the "navy" text selector within the loupe changes color to "green" (or any other color) right before your eyes. A subtle yet obvious clue that something is happening (i.e. hint hint iPhone / iPod touch user, you are now in select mode).
At this point all you have done is positioned the loupe and held it still for 1.5 seconds. So far so good.
Now, while your finger remains on the screen with the loupe present (as you would do with your mouse) you drag the text selector to the end of the piece of text you want, and you leave go.. and up pops all the clipboard options you'll ever need; Copy, Cut, Paste, Delete etc. You choose an option and you're done.
And when you want to Paste some copied text or a URL or something, you bring up the loupe and position it where you like, hold it for 1.5 seconds until the text selector turns green, and instead of dragging you just leave go and choose Paste from the pop up options.
A long email for a simple procedure I know. But it will be easier to do than to write about. That much is certain. And given that you will have to hold the loupe still for about 1.5 seconds, you can bet your bottom dollar you won't ever enter select mode by accident.
The 1.5 second figure is not set in stone, it's not an exact science. Apple will no doubt fine tune that hold time needed to bring the iPhone into "select mode", but the point is you have to hold the loupe still for a period of time that would be considered "longer than normal". Upon testing this method on my iPhone to me it simply feels "too organic" to be wrong. It seems so like the right thing to me. And most importantly it's easy to grasp, for the reason that it's simple.
1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.
This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.
This is the method I thought of...
1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.
This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.
As I was saying I think two fingers would cause complications combined with too much tapping and I think it would be too easy to trigger it accidentally. In contrast not only is the one finger method easier to grasp, but if you are the type of person who wouldn't even know what Copy & Paste is, when using the loupe you are not inclined to hold it in one spot for an unusually long period of time.
Think loupe, hold, drag, release!
If you have an iPhone just try my method within an email to see what I mean. Then try the two finger method.
I tried both methods and honestly I'm not sure which method works best for me; however, I think the browsing experience will suffer if you are concerned about the loupe just appearing if your finger lingers too long on the screen. I think instead the loupe should appear when you second finger tap. That way it will act as a modifier button and deactivate the normal scrolling gestures. c&p will rely on your finger moving the cursor instead of your finger scrolling the screen's contents. Then you position the loupe and hold it (or second finger tap) to start the selection.
For future purposes of selecting large blocks of type I think you need to be able to take your finger off the glass to scroll the screen while you are making the selection so there should be a second tap to end the selection. It would be a bad idea to handicap the c&p function just because initially we're only c&p addresses or phone numbers.
Neither method is obvious and would rely on instructions from Apple.
Well that is obvious.
Simply place "[" where you want the copy to start and "]" where you want it to end. The moment you place the "]" an option comes up asking if you want to cut, copy, or cancel, the text.
Once copied, type those same symbols, such as "[]", without any spaces between them, and the option comes up to paste, paste history, or cancel. Paste places the last copied text from memory. Paste history brings up another screen listing previously copied text. Each may be pasted again or deleted, at will. Users could have several pastes available at a moment’s notice, which is great for making multiple contacts, heavily used phrases for emails and text messages, etc..
Doing something like this as their first entry into copy/paste would allow them to change the symbols or options as they get feedback, without annoying those that are focused on the multi-touch technology. Again, these aren't the actual symbols "[" and "]", they are whatever new ones Apple comes up with.
Just an idea.
ok, so you know how if you tap/hold on the "n" key a little menu pops up to let you choose between three "n" choices (n, ñ, and `n)? why not make it so that if you tap/hold on the spacebar you get the choice to change your keyboard into "edit mode"? there would be choices for zooming in on the text, zooming out, dropping a cursor, putting in start/stop points, turning "select" on and off, accessing multiple clipboards, etc.
the whole point of the display is that it can change at any time. just like how when entering a URL, there's no spacebar, when doing editing, you don't need keys.
The 1.5 second figure is not set in stone, it's not an exact science. Apple will no doubt fine tune that hold time needed to bring the iPhone into "select mode", but the point is you have to hold the loupe still for a period of time that would be considered "longer than normal". Upon testing this method on my iPhone to me it simply feels "too organic" to be wrong. It seems so like the right thing to me. And most importantly it's easy to grasp, for the reason that it's simple.
I think your method works fine for text. No disagreements.
What if you want to zoom in/out? What about copying pictures? How about multiple email/notes selection (especially non-contiguous selection)?
My other comments were for other ways to do it. The loop is fairly imprecise (as one other poster said), and I was thinking that a smart select could be done. Such as a secret gesture to enter selection mode, than using single taps, double taps, and finger-down+pause+slide type inputs for the select. 2 finger pinch can also be used for zoom in/out. After that, the selection mode commands (copy-to-clipboard, email, SMS, delete, etc.) can be invoked.
Such as a secret gesture to enter selection mode....
So after you enter select mode using this "secret gesture", how do you tell the iPhone to start copying at "this" point, and end at "this" point?
If you say "using the loupe" then my method is obviously easier, i.e. better, as it wouldn't require any previous (secret) gesture. It would be simply loupe and hold, what could be simpler?
So after you enter select mode using this "secret gesture", how do you tell the iPhone to start copying at "this" point, and end at "this" point?
If you say "using the loupe" then my method is obviously easier, i.e. better, as it wouldn't require any previous (secret) gesture. It would be simply loupe and hold, what could be simpler?
the loupe sucks.
i'd like to see some critiques on my idea.
the loupe sucks.
Define sucks?