China

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
Interesting that there were many posts here about Tibet but none now about the earthquake in China.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Was just wondering the same thing.



    Over 14,000 killed... and likely many more. CNN is now reporting that China says 26,000 are still buried.



    As if that wasn't bad enough, the infrastructure was literally completely destroyed in many places. This will be a long and painful recovery.



    Read somewhere that the ancient Chinese believed natural disasters to be the result of bad governing, so maybe this will lead to some changes in the country.
  • Reply 2 of 29
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    Read somewhere that the ancient Chinese believed natural disasters to be the result of bad governing, so maybe this will lead to some changes in the country.



    Yes, I would expect some local building officials to get a 9mm pink slip from the school collapses.



    Overall though, despite the fact I hate communism, the CCP is currently doing a reasonable job at governance given the size of the country and population. The disaster response is...ah...probably more organized that the US post-Katrina efforts.



    Of course, some folks may not think too highly of US governing at the moment.
  • Reply 3 of 29
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Katrina was a complete and utter disaster, absolutely inexcusable, but very few got pink slips. God bless America, the greatest nation on earth.(TM)



    With the Olympics coming up and China very much in the eyes of the world, I wonder how much of this effort is being driven by a need to improve their image, fast. Something wants to believe that it is a true response...
  • Reply 4 of 29
    sslarsonsslarson Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    Katrina was a complete and utter disaster, absolutely inexcusable, but very few got pink slips. God bless America, the greatest nation on earth.(TM)



    Be careful about the broad brush here. A more correct statement would be something like:



    "The government's response Katrina was a complete and utter disaster, absolutely inexcusable, but very few got pink slips. God bless the federal and state governments of America, the greatest governments on earth.(TM)"



    Despite this gross failure, people still put much of their faith in the government to protect us and solve all of our important problems.



    The private response (private corporations, individuals, churches and other non-profit groups) was actually very good.
  • Reply 5 of 29
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    I thought it was rather clearly suggested that I meant the response by the government.



    Sorry if it was unclear.
  • Reply 6 of 29
    sslarsonsslarson Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    I thought it was rather clearly suggested that I meant the response by the government.



    Sorry if it was unclear.



    Arguably I'm being a tad pedantic. However, many people often incorrectly conflate the nation, the people, the society of "America" with its government (and its actions and failures). This is why someone like Ron Paul gets into trouble ("He's blaming Americans for the terrorist attacks!") when he says that "we" caused something like 9/11. He's not speaking of America, or the American people (most of them anyway) or the American society or even the values and beliefs of most Americans but, rather, the actions of its government (particularly federal in that case). But I think most sensible and intelligent people will agree that the American people only ostensibly and superficially control the governments of this country (particularly the federal government).
  • Reply 7 of 29
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    With the Olympics coming up and China very much in the eyes of the world, I wonder how much of this effort is being driven by a need to improve their image, fast. Something wants to believe that it is a true response...



    Well, the cynical might note that TV images of Chinese troops is now that of rescuers and not stormtroopers. Externally, it certainly doesn't hurt but you can't stage this kind of response if you aren't prepared for it.



    They lost a huge number of people in 1976 and they regularly have disasters. Their disaster response infrastructure is reputed to be very good.



    The current response in comparison to 30 years ago should certainly bolster the internal image of progress and proseperity after the Cultural Revolution. Half the time I get the impression that folks don't understand that internal propaganda and impressions are often far more important to the CCP than external ones.
  • Reply 8 of 29
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Very true.



    Have you noticed the Chinese media's response? They are all over it. On Japanese TV here we et quite a bit of the video and the reporters are pretty intense with their questions.



    Something is changing in the Middle Kingdom.
  • Reply 9 of 29
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    Very true.



    Have you noticed the Chinese media's response? They are all over it. On Japanese TV here we et quite a bit of the video and the reporters are pretty intense with their questions.



    Something is changing in the Middle Kingdom.



    All for the better. Once their government gets over their fear of completely losing control, China will be a more amazing place. It may even be possible that ideas such as self-governance could catch on.
  • Reply 11 of 29
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    Won't somebody think of the goldfish?



    Saw that. Nothing happens until the last 10 seconds.
  • Reply 12 of 29
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    How about the 100,000+ who perished in Tropical Cyclone Nargis in Burma/Myanmar? Looks like the Burmese military Junta have taken a page or 3 out of the Department of Homeland Security's disaster "response" handbook.
  • Reply 13 of 29
    @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post


    How about the 100,000+ who perished in Tropical Cyclone Nargis in Burma/Myanmar? Looks like the Burmese military Junta have taken a page or 3 out of the Department of Homeland Security's disaster "response" handbook.



    And amplified it to 100. This military junta douchebag Senior Gen. Than Shwe had the gall to vote for his forced constitution Saturday and make it into a photo op.



    Quote:

    The junta refused to budge. It stuck to its original plan to conduct the referendum on the chosen date after announcing that the people in the affected areas will be able to vote on a new date, May 24.



    Such a move confirmed a view gaining ground among angry Burmese within the country that the junta is more interested in enforcing the approval of the country’s third constitution at the expense of helping the victims of Cyclone Nargis.



    A source with close connections to highly-placed officials within the regime revealed to IPS that such a view is grounded in reality. The country’s strong man, Senior Gen. Than Shwe, had taken a decision ‘’not to use many troops and financial resources to help the people, since he wanted to use many of them for the referendum,’’ he said.



    There are other leaders as pathological as Bush. Worse even. This is one of them.



    As far as China is concerned - heart goes out to victims - seems that relief and rescue efforts going well - doesn't change my overall opinion of them though either.
  • Reply 14 of 29
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    As far as China is concerned - heart goes out to victims - seems that relief and rescue efforts going well - doesn't change my overall opinion of them though either.



    I've given my opinion of the CPC (mostly negative) however it is unlikely that any of the (east) asian democracies would be able to handle the complexities of governing China as well as the CPC has done. Post Cultural Revolution/Mao anyway. Before that almost anything would have been better.



    Perhaps I am mistaken in that impression...given that India is as complex and is a working democracy and is a (south) asian country. However, I have doubts that China can effectively evolve into an India-like pluralistic democracy given the cultural differences.



    One thing for sure, I don't believe that democracy under the KMT would have been able to manage China as a whole as well as they did Taiwan by itself (and it's not exacltly a model of govermental efficiency). It was also a dictatorship with democratic trappings until recently.



    Some Chinese that I know feel that communism, like past dynasties, is a passing phase in a very long Chinese history. 60 years is very little and the country has changed quite a bit in the last decade or so.
  • Reply 15 of 29
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sslarson View Post


    "The government's response Katrina was a complete and utter disaster, absolutely inexcusable, but very few got pink slips. God bless the federal and state governments of America, the greatest governments on earth.(TM)"



    Despite this gross failure, people still put much of their faith in the government to protect us and solve all of our important problems.



    I have no sympathy for the folks who decided not to leave NO, knowing well that there was a hurricane bearing down. It's not like an Earthquake or a Tsunami, where you're more or less hit by surprise.
  • Reply 16 of 29
    sslarsonsslarson Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I have no sympathy for the folks who decided not to leave NO, knowing well that there was a hurricane bearing down. It's not like an Earthquake or a Tsunami, where you're more or less hit by surprise.



    Indeed. No doubt. I feel the same way about them and the same way about those FL folks that refuse to leave despite constant and persistent warnings to do so. Still, with Katrina I think it's pretty fair to say that there were still plenty of failures at the federal, state and local levels (prior, during and after) that had nothing to do with people who were able to leave staying.
  • Reply 17 of 29
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I have no sympathy for the folks who decided not to leave NO, knowing well that there was a hurricane bearing down. It's not like an Earthquake or a Tsunami, where you're more or less hit by surprise.



    I have the impression that if there had been school (and other) busses to take folks out of the city at the Superdome and convention center parking lots that many folks would have choosen to get on them rather than wait it out in the city.



    Folks evacuated to these "shelters of last resort" provided by the city. There were what? 20-30K remaining in the city and 1M evacuated?
  • Reply 18 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post


    How about the 100,000+ who perished in Tropical Cyclone Nargis in Burma/Myanmar? Looks like the Burmese military Junta have taken a page or 3 out of the Department of Homeland Security's disaster "response" handbook.



    Why do you say stupid stuff like this? There is no comparison.
  • Reply 19 of 29
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    And amplified it to 100. This military junta douchebag Senior Gen. Than Shwe had the gall to vote for his forced constitution Saturday and make it into a photo op.







    There are other leaders as pathological as Bush. Worse even. This is one of them.



    As far as China is concerned - heart goes out to victims - seems that relief and rescue efforts going well - doesn't change my overall opinion of them though either.



    The US should not get involved other than supplying aid if possible. Their own people need to take care of this and overthrow the 'military leaders'.
  • Reply 20 of 29
    talksense101talksense101 Posts: 1,738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    The US should not get involved other than supplying aid if possible. Their own people need to take care of this and overthrow the 'military leaders'.



    Unless oil is involved. In which case, preemptive strikes stating US security are in order.



    Unlike the US, not every country in the world sells guns freely to its citizens. It is a bit hard to stand up to the army with sticks, knives and arrows. Arguably, this is one of the reasons why disgruntled people prefer to blow themselves up and cause damage. But then, dick weeds who guide these suicidal maniacs tend to blow up soft targets (read: civilians) instead. I believe it is a pathetic attempt to flare up tension between communities, etc. and make it difficult for the governing organization of the country. But seriously, who gives a f___ about human life these days for these tactics to work?



    Anyways, let us hope for http://www.google.co.in/search?q=end...ient=firefox-a
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