Larger Apple multi-touch devices move beyond prototype stage

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 91
    merdheadmerdhead Posts: 587member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Unless there were must-have features available only on the 3G phone (5 MegaPixel camera, GPS), I'd be perfectly happy with a lower cost 2.5 G.

    On the rare occasions where I haven't had wifi access on my touch but need to look something up, existing iPhone speeds are perfectly sufficient.



    I think this would be a good approach.



    As for 7" tablet?



    There almost is a "must have" feature, at least for some people. Probably GPS, maybe a better camera. Think the difference between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. If you can live without backlit keyboard, you go for the MacBook. Personally I use a MacBook.
  • Reply 42 of 91
    merdheadmerdhead Posts: 587member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blufire View Post


    I thought we saw screens from 2.0 that showed an option for turning 3G on and off. I assume if you turn 3G off, it'll revert to 2.5G (right?) So why would they need to ship two different versions? I think that would only cause customer confusion and increase production costs.



    You forgot to factor in the cost of the 3G chips, which are expensive. Also the bigger battery, etc, etc. Apple have a history of having a range of products with relatively minor differences. 2G/3G split makes a lot of sense, especially if the 2G version is thinner.
  • Reply 43 of 91
    kenaustuskenaustus Posts: 923member
    The first question that pops into my mind is how well is the touch selling? It seems to me that Apple is dipping their toes into the market to see the potential and, if the touch is selling well, they will continue expanding with other products.



    The second factor is obviously apps. Apple will be developing some, and they will be working with a few developers/software houses for other apps. Will this be sufficient to get more products in the touch (Newton) lineup?



    Now throw in the 200,000 developers playing with their copy of the SDK. There will be some small (probably free) apps but I believe we will see a few significant apps that will be supporting more Newton type sales - just like in the days when the Palm was at the top of the heap.



    Personally I believe that Steve J will introduce more tools for developers to push the potential of the iPhone/touch and will hold off until MWSF 09 before releasing a new range of products. I'm not unhappy about that at all as it pushes Apple to increase the potential of the iPhone/touch now. Maybe that is one of the hidden reasons for 10.6 being released.
  • Reply 44 of 91
    texadiantexadian Posts: 16member
    Has anyone considered that if they do a 2G and 3G phone that the 2G well be unlocked for any carrier and the 3G be exclusive to AT&T. How can Apple keep ignoring Verizon; especially now that they have acquired Alltel? This makes them the LARGEST and Apple doesn't want part of that? How is this good business for us stateside? AT&T charges more than double for their all you can eat plan (minus SMS ) than my all you can eat plan with MetroPCS.



    Any thoughts?
  • Reply 45 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texadian View Post


    Has anyone considered that if they do a 2G and 3G phone that the 2G well be unlocked for any carrier and the 3G be exclusive to AT&T. How can Apple keep ignoring Verizon; especially now that they have acquired Alltel? This makes them the LARGEST and Apple doesn't want part of that? How is this good business for us stateside? AT&T charges more than double for their all you can eat plan (minus SMS ) than my all you can eat plan with MetroPCS.



    Any thoughts?



    Even if Apple does offer an unlocked iPhone they would still need a CDMA version to work with Verizon. You can unlock you iPhone now but it still will only work with GSM-based carriers. To work on Verizon or Sprint it would require new HW, not SW.



    As for cost, AT&T charges $20 for unlimited data plans for the iPhone which is half the price of everyone else and is on par with the other major carriers for unlimited plans for every other phone, give or take a few bucks. MetroPCS entire base is an unlimted plan with phones you pay for outright with no subsidization, no contract and they nickel and dime you for everything else. It's a good plan many who people,but it's also very limited in many ways. They are a regional provider and therefore have to use other methods for enticing customers and thusly don't make for a good argument for pricing with the national carriers. (I thought they were an MVNO, but they are not)
  • Reply 46 of 91
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texadian View Post


    Has anyone considered that if they do a 2G and 3G phone that the 2G well be unlocked for any carrier and the 3G be exclusive to AT&T. How can Apple keep ignoring Verizon; especially now that they have acquired Alltel? This makes them the LARGEST and Apple doesn't want part of that? How is this good business for us stateside? AT&T charges more than double for their all you can eat plan (minus SMS ) than my all you can eat plan with MetroPCS.



    Any thoughts?



    Well sure, it's good for you guys because Verizon is a big, evil corporation and AT&T is just big.
  • Reply 47 of 91
    surfratsurfrat Posts: 341member
    Shaw Wu is an effing joke. My grandma can make better predictions than this clown.
  • Reply 48 of 91
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    There's a 50/50 chance that Shaw Wu loses his job after WWDC. Deal with it, Wu.



    You fly boys crack me up.
  • Reply 49 of 91
    merdheadmerdhead Posts: 587member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texadian View Post


    Has anyone considered that if they do a 2G and 3G phone that the 2G well be unlocked for any carrier and the 3G be exclusive to AT&T. How can Apple keep ignoring Verizon; especially now that they have acquired Alltel? This makes them the LARGEST and Apple doesn't want part of that? How is this good business for us stateside? AT&T charges more than double for their all you can eat plan (minus SMS ) than my all you can eat plan with MetroPCS.



    Any thoughts?



    Numerous problems with this:



    - exclusivity deal with AT&T, I can't see AT&T wanted out of that

    - the fact that Apple will not make a CDMA version of the iPhone because its a relatively small market worldwide and getting smaller each day. It's basically dead.

    - there isn't that much difference between the two phones, 3G is not going to change your life, and people wouldn't buy into such a big difference
  • Reply 50 of 91
    100% chance that Wu will get quoted on AI .. AND someone will bitch about him.



    and why are people saying 100%"Chance" its no longer a matter of chance when you get to 100%, its certainty.



    Wu we love you, you verbal and textual clone.
  • Reply 51 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by merdhead View Post


    - the fact that Apple will not make a CDMA version of the iPhone because its a relatively small market worldwide and getting smaller each day. It's basically dead.



    CDMA marketshare may be lowering but the number of CDMA handsets in use is still growing. While I don't think Apple will create a CDMA version they would benefit financially if they did create one as there are some 400M users and CDMA has plenty of life in it before it's completely obsolesced.
  • Reply 52 of 91
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    The head line says it all! The current problem I have with the iPhone is that the screen is just a smidge to small. I still want something that will go into the pocket and do cell, just that a larger screen would really help in the area of custom applications.



    Done right such a device could reduce my need to carry a laptop by 70 to 80%. The goal is to deliver a better E-Mail and web experience without loosing all the goodness of an iPhone.



    Dave
  • Reply 53 of 91
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    100% chance that Wu will get quoted on AI .. AND someone will bitch about him.



    and why are people saying 100%"Chance" its no longer a matter of chance when you get to 100%, its certainty.



    Wu we love you, you verbal and textual clone.



    We all know he reads these threads...
  • Reply 54 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    We all know he reads these threads...



    A bit of a Ouroboros. Analysts seems to read these forums after we praise or condemn their predictions, of which we speculate further (and more thoroughly), which become the basis for their next forecast which AI will then report on.
  • Reply 55 of 91
    merdheadmerdhead Posts: 587member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    CDMA marketshare may be lowering but the number of CDMA handsets in use is still growing. While I don't think Apple will create a CDMA version they would benefit financially if they did create one as there are some 400M users and CDMA has plenty of life in it before it's completely obsolesced.



    Saying there is handset growth is not saying much, there are networks with CDMA and they have customers. I think if Apple duplicated their hardware efforts for the sake of what is about 11% of the market they would make less money than if they stuck with GSM. In most places there is a GSM alternative network. Places that run only CDMA tend to be small and poor.



    The important point about the death of CDMA is that it is losing networks and therefore scale, which is key. Their 4G effort is dead in the water so they cannot compete in the longer term (2010 onwards). I think there will be a sharp drop off at some point and then legacy networks lingering on forever.



    I might add that this isn't like Apple having 5% market share because CDMA doesn't have any inherent advantages that are significant.
  • Reply 56 of 91
    juanm105juanm105 Posts: 49member
    Buy a Mac, get an iPod Touch for free.



    That?s Apple?s (AAPL) 2008 back-to-school promotion for this year, which started yesterday: qualified individuals who buy a Mac from now until September 15 can get 100% rebate on the purchase of an iPod Touch or an iPod Nano. Under terms of the offer, you get a $199 rebate on the 8GB Nano, or $299 on any storage capacity Touch. (Current pricing is $299 for the 8GB Touch, $399 for 16 GB and $499 for 32 GB.)






    So what does the current promo of apples mean to the intro of a new iPhone, iPod or MacBook/Pro or anything else?



    Certainly makes me want to buy my college going son a Macbook/iTouch but what if ... something else comes out?



    Why this typical promo for back to school in light of upcoming new models? What does this mean? if I buy a new MacBook today and a iPod will I wish I waited to get something newer?



    and what about pricing on the iTouch and iPhone in light of this deal??







    inquiring minds want ot know.
  • Reply 57 of 91
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by merdhead View Post


    Saying there is handset growth is not saying much, there are networks with CDMA and they have customers. I think if Apple duplicated their hardware efforts for the sake of what is about 11% of the market they would make less money than if they stuck with GSM. In most places there is a GSM alternative network. Places that run only CDMA tend to be small and poor.



    The important point about the death of CDMA is that it is losing networks and therefore scale, which is key. Their 4G effort is dead in the water so they cannot compete in the longer term (2010 onwards). I think there will be a sharp drop off at some point and then legacy networks lingering on forever.



    I might add that this isn't like Apple having 5% market share because CDMA doesn't have any inherent advantages that are significant.



    Not that I'm disagreeing that Apple is unlikely to release a CDMA iPhone, but a few counter-points... The US is by far Apple's biggest market. And in the US, CDMA is not a minority player. Verizon and ATT are about the same size (not sure how Alltel affects Verizon's size). Not knowing the exact figures, I'd guess that CDMA is at least 1/3 - 1/2 of the US market. You don't simply ignore that many potential customers. And if all you have to change is the transmitter chips, exactly how much incremental cost would it be to create an iPhone that can be used by all those potential customers? All the other phone manufacturers do it for much less expense phones. So why is that a barrier for Apple?



    And you are right that the 5% market share analogy doesn't apply, but not just for the reasons you cite. It's because I can plug either computer into my electrical outlet and internet connection and it will work. But there are still large areas of the US not covered by ATT and/or other GSM carriers. For those cutomers, it's CDMA or nothing.



    Every Consumer Reports (and others) customer satisfaction survery puts Verizon at the top. Many of those customers (including myself) will NEVER switch (go back) to ATT, no matter how compelling an iPhone may be. And no matter how soon you predict the death of CDMA, it's much farther down the road than the expected service life of any phone that comes out this year.



    If Apple doesn't make a CDMA iPhone, it won't be because of technical issues, lack of customers/market share, or near-death of CDMA. It will be because they just simply choose not do.
  • Reply 58 of 91
    texadiantexadian Posts: 16member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Even if Apple does offer an unlocked iPhone they would still need a CDMA version to work with Verizon. You can unlock you iPhone now but it still will only work with GSM-based carriers. To work on Verizon or Sprint it would require new HW, not SW.



    As for cost, AT&T charges $20 for unlimited data plans for the iPhone which is half the price of everyone else and is on par with the other major carriers for unlimited plans for every other phone, give or take a few bucks. MetroPCS entire base is an unlimted plan with phones you pay for outright with no subsidization, no contract and they nickel and dime you for everything else. It's a good plan many who people,but it's also very limited in many ways. They are a regional provider and therefore have to use other methods for enticing customers and thusly don't make for a good argument for pricing with the national carriers. (I thought they were an MVNO, but they are not)



    Okay step back a minute here. First off MOST people stay within there regions; thats why I choose MetroPCS in the first place http://news.wired.com/dynamic/storie...06-05-01-28-03. Second your post is VERY misleading in saying its plan is 20 dollors. That is internet ONLY!!! I was talking about EVERYTHING combined together. My MetroPCS is unlimited minutes, texts, emails, internet (slow but still) and a hell of a lot of other things!!! I really dont understand your comment on the nickle and dime you part at all. Their fees are very strait forward and you know exactly what you bill well be. I did pay full price for my phone BUT I am under NO CONTRACT!!!! They ONLY advantage to At&t IMO is the faster internet. As for Verizon not being compatible with the iphone I will have to take your word for it bc I have no clue about the different kind of networks and stuff, but the example still stands if you replace Verizon with TMobile. The point which you didnt see was that by keeping an exclusive deal you EXCLUDE millions of people. Also of note I know you can unlock the iphone but guess what YOU LOOSE ALL YOUR SUPPORT AND WARRANTY. That may not be important to you but to most people they are. Also note worthy is that I recently read an article that stated the FCC is looking into requiring ALL cell phone companies to unlock there phones at the termination of a contract. Now then I have had a long day of doing nothing so I am going to go home and check out my new At&t Uverse TV service.



    Note: I DO NOT dislike at&t or anything I was simply making an observation to a business model that doesnt make sense to me. Lets make something BAD ASS and only let 1/3 of the people use it HA HA HA!!!!! See sounds silly right?!
  • Reply 59 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texadian View Post


    Okay step back a minute here. First off MOST people stay within there regions; thats why I choose MetroPCS in the first place.



    If you do, that is fine. If you only want limited capabilities that is fine too. I've used MetroPCS for a good duration while waiting for the iPhone to come out. While they do have an all inclusive call/sms plan they charge you for making a payment in person or over the phone. And, as stated they charge you full price for the device which excluded you from a contract because you've already made them money.



    It's not a bad racket if you just want a simple device with "good enough" coverage and asimple billing cycle. But most US customers obviously are looking for more. This is especiialy true for iPhone owners.



    Quote:

    Second your post is VERY misleading in saying its plan is 20 dollors. That is internet ONLY!!! I was talking about EVERYTHING combined together. My MetroPCS is unlimited minutes, texts, emails, internet (slow but still) and a hell of a lot of other things!!!



    My apologies. I didn't realize you were looking it at phone aspect of your budget service too.



    Quote:

    They ONLY advantage to At&t IMO is the faster internet. As for Verizon not being compatible with the iphone I will have to take your word for it bc I have no clue about the different kind of networks and stuff, but the example still stands if you replace Verizon with TMobile.



    Faster internet isn't the only gain. There is more coverage, better coverage, better customer service, more options in services and in hardware.



    No, you can't replace T-Mobile for Verizon in your argument, but you can replace it with Sprint. T-Mobile and AT&T are GSM-based networks while Verizon, Sprint and MetroPCS are CDMA-based networks. This means that the radio HW can't be used across these two networks as it's different technologies. It also means that a GSM phone will work in pretty much every developed country in the world while a CDMA won't. It's confusing stuff but a few Wikipedia pages and you'll be right as rain. Anyway, this makes a GSM carrier more beneficial to US customers who tend to travel.



    PS: Can MetroPCS phones be unlocked to work on other CDMA networks? I thought they were hardcoded.







    Quote:

    The point which you didnt see was that by keeping an exclusive deal you EXCLUDE millions of people.



    Note: I DO NOT dislike at&t or anything I was simply making an observation to a business model that doesnt make sense to me. Lets make something BAD ASS and only let 1/3 of the people use it HA HA HA!!!!! See sounds silly right?!



    I believe there are over 400M CDMA users in the world and about 2 Billion GSM users. That puts CDMA only about 18% and GSM at 82%. In the US it's different.



    With 400M potential customers and the surge of iPhones being sold to poorer countries at a premium as a relatively low-cost luxury item and status symbol you could easily argue that Apple would make a lot more by offering such a device. But there are also plenty of reasons that have been discussed on these forums for well over a year why Apple wouldn't want to do so. And even if they did I highly doubt that it would work on MetroPCS network s I recall there phones are branded to them and no outside devices can be used.
  • Reply 60 of 91
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    There's a 50/50 chance that Shaw Wu loses his job after WWDC. Deal with it, Wu.



    Haha.. yeah



    I have a feeling Apple and Steve don't target specialized customers anymore, but go for the broader scale. A tablet like that... I don't know. I'm usually the one that says "I'd buy it" about any new Apple would be device. But a medium touch tablet.. I think the iPhone IS Apple's touch computer. A medium sized touch tablet would need e-book-screen features, become a control surface screen for your mac when you connect it, or something extraordinary to drive sales, or it could end up a minority platform.



    iPhone is great because it's so much more than a phone, and it's in your pocket. It's fantastic!

    An "iTablet" could fail because it can't really do all the things you'd want to do with it. For example conceptually it would be the perfect tool for digital cut out animation, but it's probably too slow to do anything serious like that. It would be the perfect musician control surface, but the latency of the multi touch technology is too high for a lot of uses, and you could probably not connect an audio card. It could be a perfect sketch companion... but does it support a pen? It would be perfect for iPhoto, but is the drive big enough to handle a lot of media? Stuff like that that I would expect when it's a bigger sized computer screen to interact with.. We'll see..
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