Zoom Button. What a tragic story.

mac512k yeahmac512k yeah
Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
The zoom button to me is a tragic story. Apple has continued the tale into OSX.



When you press the mystifying thing there is no telling what might happen to you window. I still can't figure it out after many years of Mac adoring. Well, yes i have figured out that it does zoom big enough to show all visible file/data but there no telling how big that is.



Press this beautiful green button and see for yourself. It says in Mac Help that if you hold down the 'option' key while pressing the zoom button the window will fill the screen. Well this never works for me, but thats what I really want it to do... Press zoom it fills the whole screen... Press zoom again and it goes back to where it was. Then to further confuse people, if you select from the Window menu 'Zoom Window' if ofren does a different thing than if you were to press the zoom button. Can any body explain to me the logic behind this elogical button that has found its disfunctionality into OSX??? Does anybody else have the same disappointment with this button?? It could be so useful, and predictable. I like predictable.



And does anybody know how to maximize Finder windows that are minimized in the dock all at once??

_______ <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Mac512K Yeah ]</p>

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    zozo Posts: 3,117member
    actually a very good point... had that same gripe ever since OS 7 when I started using it.



    I think its just so shite that we have all sort of refused to even use it anymore and just removed it from our subconscious.



    I never use the button anymore (except in Finder folder windows) since there is never and knowing wtf it will do.



    Hehe... good one. We gripe about everything and then forget the basics.
  • Reply 2 of 20
    scott f.scott f. Posts: 276member
    It's funny you mention that... I think I've mentally blocked-it-out over the years. The only time I hit it is by accident. I never understood the "rules" to the minimize/maximize button... and for such an intuitive UI... it is one of it's least intuitive functions.



    If I were a WinPC user... I'd be confused as hell as to what it does... heck, I'm a MAC-USER and I'm confused as hell...



    (or am I just thick...?)
  • Reply 3 of 20
    mac the forkmac the fork Posts: 722member
    It's supposed to maximise to fit the contents of a window or put it back to the way it was before. Really, it should only do one thing -- and properly. Of course it never does for some stupid reason.
  • Reply 4 of 20
    shatteringglassshatteringglass Posts: 176member
    This should really get fixed Jagwire. The functionality of this button is too erratic and random.
  • Reply 5 of 20
    wolfeye155wolfeye155 Posts: 425member
    When I switched from Windows, I hated the button using the internet because it wouldn't make the window fill the whole screen. Now I hate windows and like it not using up all of that valuable space. The only thing that I think it works properly with is OmniWeb. Hopefully they will make it a little better in Jaguar.
  • Reply 6 of 20
    mac the forkmac the fork Posts: 722member
    It's up to programmers to implement the functionality. Apple probably can't do anything but make sure their apps use it properly.
  • Reply 7 of 20
    r@venr@ven Posts: 24member
    I think you'll find I started this topic, but yes it annoys me too. I switch from Mac to PC daily and it's the most obvious pain in the bum, especially when opening a finder window with the resize square/downward scroll button behind the bloody Dock!!!! At least Omni cares about people like us.
  • Reply 8 of 20
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    yeah, OmniWeb does work well with that green button

    Oh, and I thought it was shift-click to fill the whole screen. Am I on crack?
  • Reply 9 of 20
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Okay, in OmniWeb, clicking the zoom box makes the window smaller. Clicking it again returns the window size to a different size than either the original or the new one. I had OW with as big a window as possible, and when I pressed it, the area got cut approximately in half (about 2/3 screen both horizontally and vertically). I pressed it again, and now the horizontal size remained the same but the vertical size went almost to the dock. I shift clicked the zoom box, and it went almost full screen, but it was still slightly above the dock (even though I set the window size originally to be flush with the top of the dock).



    In the Finder, clicking the zoom box changes the window size to fit the contents of the window, but unlike OS 9 (which would make the smallest fitting window possible), X just moves the lower right corner. I used the zoom box in OS 9 because it was a way you could adjust a window's size without moving everything around and using only the lower right corner. Now, it leaves space in the top and left, so it only reduces the clearance to the bottom and right.



    I don't use it anymore. Besides, OS X has toolbars on the windows, and you have a stack rather than a number of separate windows, so I just keep the one window fairly large and I put up with large ugly blank spaces. But I think the window setup should be more like OS 9.



    Edit: Dangit, I tried to post some pictures (they're on my iDisk) but I went to the correct address as per instructions from the Post Your Desktop thread, and it didn't work. So I can't post those pictures. Then I tried little dashes and stuff to make a picture, but that didn't work either.



    [ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: Luca Rescigno ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 20
    junkyard dawgjunkyard dawg Posts: 2,801member
    Think of the green button as an "optimize" button. If your window is too large for its contents, then pressing the green button will make the window smaller. If the window is too small for all of its contents to be displayed, then the green button will make the window bigger, so everything fits.



    Why is this so hard to understand?



    <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 11 of 20
    benjamin frerebenjamin frere Posts: 20member
    Cocoa app uses bye default the green button to feel the screen (and look at the dock). Programmers can set a maximum size for a window, and the green button will maximize that window to that max size.

    Remember, the default function in Cocoa is just like Windows. If the functionality of this button is « hacked », it doesn't work the same... like OmniWeb that maximise the window to the minnimal size of the current web page.

    Looks at Chimera (Navigator) It works with the normal way of Cocoa



    Try with app like NetWork utility or Netinfo manager, console etc... screen is filled.



    Now the second problem are carbon... the green button with carbon app works like classic app and I DON't LIKE THAT. This is random thing.

    I HATE carbon on OS X, for many reasons...



    I understand one exception: the finder windows that grow only with the number of the icons and "fix" the size. (And on Jaguar, the window doesn't come anymore under the Dock).
  • Reply 12 of 20
    mac the forkmac the fork Posts: 722member
    [quote]Why is this so hard to understand?<hr></blockquote>



    Because it is inconsistent among and within apps.
  • Reply 13 of 20
    imhoimho Posts: 30member
    Actually, according to Apple's Aqua Human Interface guidelines (HIG), the zom buttun is used to toggle between the user state and the standard state.



    If the user changes the window size (by more than 7 pixels), this new size is the user state. If the user then clicks the zoom button, the window should adjust to the standard state. Hit it again, and then it will return to the user state.



    The standard state is defined by the application. In Mac OS, this is normally defined as the correct window size to fit the content. However, it can be defined by the application to be full screen, or tiny. It is supposed to be the best possible size to work on the type of file the application creates.



    Personally, it should be the way OmniWeb works. Best fit and user state by zooming, and then shift+zoom to maximize to full screen. That's the best of all worlds.
  • Reply 14 of 20
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    I'd love to see Apple add a preference for how this button behaves. This was a very good point, I admit that I have a blind spot for this button and seldom feel adventurous enough to use it.



    D
  • Reply 15 of 20
    mac512k yeahmac512k yeah Posts: 2member
    Thats a great idea too. Apple should have a preference that controls this pragmatic button.



    Does anybody know of any system hacks or utilities that could do just that?? Especially in the Finder.



    Also can anybody get the option + click zoom button function working on their Mac?? It clearly states in the Mac Help under 'shortcuts for windows' that this action should zoom to full screen. It has never worked for me. Anybody??

    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 16 of 20
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac512K Yeah:

    <strong>

    Also can anybody get the option + click zoom button function working on their Mac?? It clearly states in the Mac Help under 'shortcuts for windows' that this action should zoom to full screen. It has never worked for me. Anybody??

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    It's shift+click, not option+click.



    I never could figure out the zoom button either, but I'm glad we don't have a fill screen button. I HATE that on windows. You have a word document that should only take up a corner of the screen and someone is working on it filling their 17" monitor. Big-ass white space just using up room on the screen. Or when people maximize IE windows. Drives me crazy. I like my things to be in 'windows' not full screens. I guess I'm just against wasted screen space.



    ps - I just checked the help file and it DOES say option click. Another reason the help guide sucks. I was trying to trouble shoot my ABS the other day and it had a typo in the directions, tell me my subnet should be 255.255.252.0. Luckily I noticed it was wrong, but otherwise, I'd still be trying to get it right. I guess quality control isn't what it used to be...
  • Reply 17 of 20
    evoevo Posts: 198member
    [quote]

    Cocoa app uses bye default the green button to feel the screen (and look at the dock).

    <hr></blockquote>



    [quote]

    Actually, according to Apple's Aqua Human Interface guidelines (HIG), the zom buttun is used to toggle between the user state and the standard state.

    <hr></blockquote>



    What the hell?! Why is Apple breaking their own interface guidelines in their own developer tools? We have all these great cocoa apps out there now with non-conforming zoom buttons, thanks to Apple. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />



    I agree the zoom button should behave like it does in OmniWeb. And I REALLY hate it when a zoom button isn't Dock-aware. The Finder is an example of this. If I'm in column view, browsing a large directory, I go to hit the maximize button, the window goes to the whole width of the screen, behind the Dock! (my Dock is on the right side of the screen) That is so annoying.



    Damn, Apple, please fix this up.
  • Reply 18 of 20
    allenchristopherallenchristopher Posts: 135member
    Here's what's really funny: none of you have yet touched on what the green button does in iTunes, Sherlock, DVD player, or QuickTime. These are the mysterious "stainless-steel" applications. In iTunes, the maximize button switches between a user size and a little remote control. In Sherlock, it maximizes to the full size of the screen and stays there no matter how many times you click it. Strangest of all, two of the buttons are missing from the DVD player window and all of them from the DVD remote. Instead one can select sizes from pull-down menus but one primarily uses arcane control-key combinations to change size. Definitely not in the Mac spirit.



    iPhoto is a 'steel' application that works properly, and of course iMovie is always full screen.



    All the 'stainless steel' applications are Apple's own, and in fact are the spokes in Apple's digital hub. Why then are they so inconsistent witht hemselves and the specs?



    Then there are all the applications under OS X that simply disable the green button. That wasn't really a viable option in platinum, but it's easy in Aqua. I wouldn't be surprised if five years from now greying out the green button is the norm.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    undotwaundotwa Posts: 97member
    [quote]Originally posted by AllenChristopher:

    <strong>Here's what's really funny: none of you have yet touched on what the green button does in iTunes, Sherlock, DVD player, or QuickTime. These are the mysterious "stainless-steel" applications. In iTunes, the maximize button switches between a user size and a little remote control. In Sherlock, it maximizes to the full size of the screen and stays there no matter how many times you click it. Strangest of all, two of the buttons are missing from the DVD player window and all of them from the DVD remote. Instead one can select sizes from pull-down menus but one primarily uses arcane control-key combinations to change size. Definitely not in the Mac spirit.



    iPhoto is a 'steel' application that works properly, and of course iMovie is always full screen.



    All the 'stainless steel' applications are Apple's own, and in fact are the spokes in Apple's digital hub. Why then are they so inconsistent witht hemselves and the specs?



    Then there are all the applications under OS X that simply disable the green button. That wasn't really a viable option in platinum, but it's easy in Aqua. I wouldn't be surprised if five years from now greying out the green button is the norm.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It is easy to disable to ZOOM button in platinum. All you need is ResEdit, and the target app (if it uses resources), you open up the WIND/DIALOG resource and you double click on the target window... just click on the window mode without the zoom button, easy!



    Removing the zoom button will result in a window that most of the control panels use.



    I never really had problems with zoom. It works fine for me: User State/Standard State. Got very quickly <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
  • Reply 20 of 20
    bobthetomatobobthetomato Posts: 665member
    [quote]Originally posted by torifile:

    <strong>



    ... but I'm glad we don't have a fill screen button. I HATE that on windows. You have a word document that should only take up a corner of the screen and someone is working on it filling their 17" monitor. Big-ass white space just using up room on the screen. Or when people maximize IE windows. Drives me crazy. I like my things to be in 'windows' not full screens. I guess I'm just against wasted screen space.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I usually run Word with a full screen view in X, in part beacuse I usually run it zoomed in a bit and then the pallettes don't get lost in the clutter of background Apps and I'm a little less tempted to surf, read email, or IM (Out of sight, out of mind).
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