Linux "power user"/kernel developer -- will I be happy with OS X?

lorenz

I'm considering switching to an LCD iMac running OS X, and am trying to figure out if I'll be happy, or if I'll feel "claustrophobic".



Some background: I'm a software developer, working on kernel code in embedded operating systems for networking devices. I used to run Linux on my machine at work (and at home), but I'm sick of spending my weekends as a sysadmin to get even the simplest of things to work. I don't like the alternative of running Windows -- I want an OS with a solid kernel, where errant apps don't step all over one another. I'm *very* comfortable with a command line -- my .bashrc is a couple hundred lines long.



I want a machine where the multimedia stuff "just works" (so when I don't want to diddle with stuff, I don't have to), but I also want the flexibility of having development tools. For example, I keep my web pages under CVS revision control. I generate them with a bunch of PERL scripts I've written. I write those scripts in emacs. I want the ability to write code in C++/C, and compile it on my machine.



1. I've checked out fink, but it looks like gcc and gdb aren't part of the distribution -- is that true?



2. OK, OK, so I'm now actually a manager of SW development, so I need to be able to run MS Office stuff -- will this work, i.e. if someone emails me an MS Project file, or a PPT presentation, can I edit it and return it to them?



3. How about keyboard shortcuts? At work, I use a Win2k machine, and have gotten pretty good at the "Alt-Tab" to switch between apps, or "Alt-Spacebar N" to iconify apps. Does OS X have similar shortcuts?



4. Can I plug in a mouse with more than 1 button? Will it be useful? I actually kinda like the way this is handled under Linux and Windows...



Basically, I want a Unix workstation with a well-thought-out GUI that I can share with my non-nerd wife, where the multimedia stuff "just works", I can "get some work done" (MS Office stuff), but where the nerd in me can still do Unix stuff when I feel like it -- is OS X for me?



My last Apple was a ][GS back in '87 -- is a 17" LCD iMac in my future? :-)



Lorenz

hmurchison

Dude once you look at OSX you're gonna wet your pants. I'll let more of the Kernel hacks here explain why.

mac the fork

I don't have OS X, so I'm working from memory here.



1) gcc, at least, is part of the OS X developer tools, which I believe are free with OS X. ProjectBuilder, Apple's IDE, provides a GUI front-end to it. Oh, and learn Cocoa!



2) Office stuff, with the exception of Access, works with OS X (provided you get Office, of course).



3) Command-Tab switches between apps, Command-H hides all the windows of the current app.



4) OS X supports multi-button mice, and they behave as you would expect.



By the way, you may feel a bit claustrophobic in the default GUI for a while, as you learn how to go about things. Aqua is very straightforward and lacks the (over)customisability of KDE or Gnome. However, X is available for OS X of course.



[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Dead Member ]</p>

squash

For some of your questions if they can't answered here. The Apple site has a whole section in the support/discussion/OS X/ Unix.



I'd guess most people could answer your questions pretty in-depth there. I'll get a link for you and edit my post.



<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.eeeb8d4"; target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.eeeb8d4</a>;



[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: SQUÅSH ]</p>

frawgz

It sounds like you are a prime candidate for a happy new OS X user. See this guy, who similarly replaces Unix, Windows, and Mac with Mac OS X.



<a href="http://www.apple.com/education/hed/macsinaction/stanfordmedical/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/education/hed/macsinaction/stanfordmedical/</a>;

smircle

Originally posted by Lorenz:

[quote]I'm considering switching to an LCD iMac running OS X, and am trying to figure out if I'll be happy, or if I'll feel "claustrophobic".<hr></blockquote>



I have an Tibook with a screen resolution of 1152x8something. While it is great, the available screen real estate is a bit small for programming.



[quote]

1. I've checked out fink, but it looks like gcc and gdb aren't part of the distribution -- is that true?<hr></blockquote>



GCC (currently 2.95, soon GCC 3) are part of the developer tools that are part of MacOS-X. With every copy of MacOS-X you get an IDE based on GCC.



[quote]

2. OK, OK, so I'm now actually a manager of SW development, so I need to be able to run MS Office stuff -- will this work, i.e. if someone emails me an MS Project file, or a PPT presentation, can I edit it and return it to them?

<hr></blockquote>

PPT, Word, Excel are fine, however Access and Project are not part of Office v.X



[quote]

3. How about keyboard shortcuts? At work, I use a Win2k machine, and have gotten pretty good at the "Alt-Tab" to switch between apps, or "Alt-Spacebar N" to iconify apps. Does OS X have similar shortcuts?

<hr></blockquote>



Yes: cmd-tab to switch, cmd-h to hide, cmd-m to minimze the current window.

[quote]

4. Can I plug in a mouse with more than 1 button? Will it be useful? I actually kinda like the way this is handled under Linux and Windows...

<hr></blockquote>



Yes two-button mice work, the right button then triggers the context menu and scroll wheels work as well.



[quote]

Basically, I want a Unix workstation with a well-thought-out GUI that I can share with my non-nerd wife, where the multimedia stuff "just works", I can "get some work done" (MS Office stuff), but where the nerd in me can still do Unix stuff when I feel like it -- is OS X for me?<hr></blockquote>



Most likely yes. However, as a developer you might be happier with a G4 Minitower and a larger display. You cannot attach a second monitor to the iMac.

harald

MacProject was what one may term "an utter POS."



It dates from the days when MS seemed to be trying to kill the platform by releasing crap software.



It exists, and will work under OS9 ... but doesn't work well if at all under OS X. MS don't seem to have any plans to release an OS X version.



I wouldn't let that put you off. All our developers, who used to HATE the Mac, have switched to OS X as their primary development environment.

lfrog

If you need something like MS Project, you might want to look at Fast Track Schedule from AEC software, <a href="http://www.aecsoft.com."; target="_blank">http://www.aecsoft.com.</a>; I have not used it in a while, but it was easy to use and could save and open MPX files.



Supposedly Version 8, which will be OSX native, will be out soon (taking pre-orders). Fast Track works on Windows, Mac, and Palm.

helping hand

[quote]Originally posted by Lorenz:

<strong>I'm considering switching to an LCD iMac running OS X, and am trying to figure out if I'll be happy, or if I'll feel "claustrophobic".



Lorenz</strong><hr></blockquote>



All I can say is that I have had two skeptical associates of mine, also software engineers with an affinity for Linux, switch to OS X within the last 60 days. One purchased a G4/933 and the other an iBook. The impetus for both was very much like yours so I am sure that you will be pleased with your decision because they are both ecstatic with theirs (especially the iApps ease of use). In fact, their initiative has given me more confidence in Apple?s ability to succeed than I have ever had before because I think it is representative of a positive market trend (grass roots movement). Oh, and I am also a software engineer.



Lorenz, go for it and you will be happy.

sc_markt

Lorenz,



If you do decide to buy a Mac, don't buy one today. Wait until tomorrow and then check on Apple's web site to see if there are any new and improved computers.

spart

Just so you aren't confused by that check back tomorrow response, tomorrow at 8:00 AM ET Steve Jobs (CEO of Apple) will be giving a keynote at Macworld New York, and will likely be introducing new hardware.

torifile

Just so you aren't confused by Spart's 'clarification', the keynote is actually 9am ET.

colorclassicg4

[quote]Originally posted by Lorenz:

<strong>I'm considering switching to an LCD iMac running OS X, and am trying to figure out if I'll be happy, or if I'll feel "claustrophobic".



Some background: I'm a software developer, working on kernel code in embedded operating systems for networking devices. I used to run Linux on my machine at work (and at home), but I'm sick of spending my weekends as a sysadmin to get even the simplest of things to work. I don't like the alternative of running Windows -- I want an OS with a solid kernel, where errant apps don't step all over one another. I'm *very* comfortable with a command line -- my .bashrc is a couple hundred lines long.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Note that one thing which can annoy some experienced *nix users is that Apple has rearranged a few bits of the standard directory structure to make things more logical. Fear not, though, /etc /bin and so forth are all still there. Just open the Terminal app (in Applications/Utilities) on a test machine and have a look around.



<strong>I want a machine where the multimedia stuff "just works" (so when I don't want to diddle with stuff, I don't have to), but I also want the flexibility of having development tools. For example, I keep my web pages under CVS revision control. I generate them with a bunch of PERL scripts I've written. I write those scripts in emacs. I want the ability to write code in C++/C, and compile it on my machine.</strong>



Everything Perl/EMACS/etc. related is a piece of cake under OS X.



<strong>1. I've checked out fink, but it looks like gcc and gdb aren't part of the distribution -- is that true?</strong>



I develop with gcc and gdb. I'm too lazy to post a screen shot at the moment, but they are included in the box. The Developers' Tools are an optional install (I think they come on a separate CD now, but the point is you don't have to DL them and you certainly don't have to pay) which is included with the machine. That's gcc, gdb, and Apple's full graphical IDE, ProjectBuilder.



<strong>2. OK, OK, so I'm now actually a manager of SW development, so I need to be able to run MS Office stuff -- will this work, i.e. if someone emails me an MS Project file, or a PPT presentation, can I edit it and return it to them?</strong>



As others have pointed out, Office X runs great, including PowerPoint. The file formats are all just the same as for the Windows versions, so edit and return is fine. Access and Project, however are not available. Note that VirtualPC, the Windows emulator, runs great, so if you are really worried you could just run the Windows version of Office under that.



<strong>3. How about keyboard shortcuts? At work, I use a Win2k machine, and have gotten pretty good at the "Alt-Tab" to switch between apps, or "Alt-Spacebar N" to iconify apps. Does OS X have similar shortcuts?</strong>



Others have pointed out that OS X is full of keyboard shortcuts for switching apps or windows, etc.



<strong>4. Can I plug in a mouse with more than 1 button? Will it be useful? I actually kinda like the way this is handled under Linux and Windows...</strong>



Any USB mouse you can plug in will run fine; six buttons and a scroll wheel or whatever. It's a strange myth that circulates that multiple-button mice won't work.



<strong>Basically, I want a Unix workstation with a well-thought-out GUI that I can share with my non-nerd wife, where the multimedia stuff "just works", I can "get some work done" (MS Office stuff), but where the nerd in me can still do Unix stuff when I feel like it -- is OS X for me?

</strong>



Absolutely. You get an account, she gets an account, everything just "works", and if you want to tweak you can chmod and sudo to your heart's content.



Good luck! You may wonder why it is that Mac users are so eager to help others get started and to spread the word. The answer, of course, is wait and see