Why paying for Jaguar, .mac is a GOOD thing

steven r wilson · July 20, 2002 2:27AM

Okay, before you bring on the flames, hear me out. I think I can come up with a semi-intelligent

argument where paying for Jaguar and .mac helps Mac users.

Apple is the world's only complete hardware and software company in existence. As Mac users, we

already find something compelling about their particular integrated solution. Some of us like the

fancy polished hardware, others like the beautiful Aqua OS (even if some don?t like it most find it

better than WinXP). Regardless, almost all Mac users would agree that what will help out our

platform the most is for Apple to take a byte out of the installed Windows user base.

Here's where charging for Jaguar and .mac helps us. Apple is a business, so no matter what it

does, it has to keep making money constantly to exist. Further, since Apple has demonstrated a

continued tradition of innovation, it needs lots of money to keep coming up with new and exciting

products. Apple would not be around still today if all they did for the past several years was

increase the MHz of their existing machines. That's basically what most of the rest of the PC

sector has been doing, and look where it's gotten them. So if we pay for services, other than the

cost of buying our way into the "Mac club" by purchasing their hardware, Apple opens up new revenue

streams. It no longer needs to support the total cost of development for everything from it's

hardware sales.

What this means in real terms is:

1. Apple no longer has to get us to purchase new hardware 6 months after we purchased our last

hardware to make money off us. In other words, Apple can and does have a compelling interest in

continuing to provide goods and services and innovation for existing users without requiring them

to upgrade their hardware.

2. Apple can theoretically reduce the cost of some of their hardware a little bit more (this is

especially key in the lower end of the scale when even an extra hundred dollars could mean the sale

of one less Mac). This means Apple can sell more hardware.

This brings me to my 3rd point...

3. Lower hardware cost = more "Switchers" = more market share. Think about this. Us paying for

some of the software development as we go along, can now mean more and more people can afford new

Macs. If I'm right about this, and I don't see how I couldn't be at least partially right, Apple

can snag even an extra 1% or 2% from the PC sector. That may not seem like much, but it could be

huge for all Mac users, as this could mean more PC software manufacturers, and hardware

manufacturers will take notice of Apple and the Mac and make products for us.

This is ultimately why I think this is a good idea. Am I saying I wouldn't accept Steve Jobs

personally handing me a free copy of Jaguar? No. All it means is that everything in life seems to

come with an upside and a downside, and if all you look at is the bad rusty side of this situation,

you'll miss out on the positive long term aspects.

Basically, I'd rather have a future where I had to pay for some of the services and OS innovations

that Apple produces and have them have a reason to want to keep making me stuff, and one where

there's more new users and a larger installed base, than one where things stay stagnant, and Apple

has no interest in me other than as a potential future Mac hardware customer.

nebagakid · July 20, 2002 1:47PM

So, i guess the big idea is to wait, I think that is a good plan

WE shall wait ( yet always complain) but slowly hardware costs will drop, software title numbers will increase, and slowly

MY GOD DAMN APPLE STOCK WILL GO BACK UP!

jahy · July 20, 2002 3:04PM

I hope Apple's stock ges back up, but not until Monday. I'm going to buy $500 worth. That's all of my saved money. Do you think Appl will hit 20 or 25 anytime soon?

smircle · July 20, 2002 5:41PM

Originally posted by Steven R Wilson:

[quote]Okay, before you bring on the flames, hear me out. I think I can come up with a semi-intelligent

argument where paying for Jaguar and .mac helps Mac users.<hr></blockquote>

Well you know.. even if Jobs told me personally that I have to donate money regularly to keep Apple reinventing computing, I would not do it. $100 is ridiculous for .Mac (I already posted feedback to Apple that I am going to terminate my iTools account) and $129 for Jag is steep - I think, I am going to let this slip too.

If they want me to pay regularly, they better thrill me.

icarus · July 20, 2002 9:53PM

I agree to a degree. I think that the important thing is that everyone does whats right for them. If you dont have a digital camera, dont download iPhoto. See what I mean?

If you don't need Jag or .Mac or a 20 gig iPod it really is just your business. The Mac is a personal favourite of mine because you have so many opions, It may look like a pretty simple decision buying a mac but the truth is that things can get as advanced and complex and useful as you want/need.

I hope that I said that right.....I just woke up from a nap so odds are It talks about carpet samples and dovetail joints.

-ICARUS

steven r wilson · July 21, 2002 3:55AM

[quote]Originally posted by Smircle:

Well you know.. even if Jobs told me personally that I have to donate money regularly to keep Apple reinventing computing, I would not do it. ...

If they want me to pay regularly, they better thrill me.<hr></blockquote>

Fair enough, Smircle. But consider this, with that attitude could Apple have counted on you for any form of revenue? Say, new hardware? If you don't want to pay for anything that's totally your right, but if you have no money to hand to Apple for hardware or for software, they can't concern themselves with you, they must by nature of what businesses do, focus on customers who will spend money on Apple products.

Your point about them having to wow you definitely holds, however, so Apple still has to earn its way into your pocketbook.

Incidentally, there are other voices on the web that agree with my position, check it out:

<a href="http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2002/07/19.1.shtml"; target="_blank">http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2002/07/19.1.shtml</a>;

jared · July 21, 2002 4:02AM

I very much agree with Steven R Wilson. Apple is not a greedy company. They may charge a lot for upgrades, and iService's (.mac) and hardware but look into consideration where their money goes:

Hardware engineers

Software developers

Q/A testers

Salaries

Operations

INNOVATION (R & D)

Sure Apple have four billion in the bank but that is for security. Sure Dell and HP, etc., have more money in the bank but please show me the products that they have come out with that are truly innovative. Heck their employees could be getting paid a lot better some place else but they want to bring the most innovative products to the market. They have real passion, they are not just working for the big man. I have worked at this company, and I can very much eat my own words on this.

All of you love the fact that Apple is buying out these audio/video companies but where do you think this money is coming from? Revenue of existing hardware and software and now .mac.

Think long and hard why you love the Macintosh platform versus the PC platform, look at what Apple has done in the past five years now that good ol' Stevie has been back, and most importantly look at what Apple has given you for free.

We have the easiest UNIX platform on earth, running Adobe software! Being able to burn CDs and DVDs in minutes (not the burning time), being able to program PHP, Perl, CGI, etc. and then test it on the very same machine using Apache no less! And to think Mac OS X is about to get much better...

These reasons are not only why I am not only supporting Apple 100% but wil continue to support them for life. I love you Apple

brianmacos · July 21, 2002 11:41AM

Steven R Wilson you are right. The stuff Apple has just recently released was done for a reason. All he has been doing is giving stuff away lately. So why would it hurt for us to give money back to the company that has also been providing quality software for next to nothing. I already paid my $100 for .Mac because I find the services useful and worth paying for. My main purpose for picking up a Mac other than OSX was the whole iTools package even though I got it because it was free I figure since it was worth enough for me to go out and spend 2000$ on a brand new laptop than I guess it is worth me to spend 100$ a year for as long as it gets the job done. And one other thing if we are spending this 100$ a year some thing good has to come out of it, that is what I can't want to see.

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: BrianMacOS ]</p>

smircle · July 21, 2002 4:28PM

Originally posted by Steven R Wilson:

[quote]

Fair enough, Smircle. But consider this, with that attitude could Apple have counted on you for any form of revenue? Say, new hardware? If you don't want to pay for anything that's totally your right, but if you have no money to hand to Apple for hardware or for software, they can't concern themselves with you, <hr></blockquote>

Well, I have spent some $20.000 over the last 11 years on Apple hardware alone (not counting another $30.000 I advocated at the university), so in a sense I guess I qualify as a target group. However, I never asked them to develop iTools (I bought my first domain before iTools were born) and I certainly will not cry if I see them vanish again. Of course, if people _want_ to spend money on this, more power to them...

However, the pricing for Jaguar is imho really unfair. I only bought this TiBook last year, received three upgrade vouchers all of which I can trash now (OK I could have spent one on 10.1)? this is a bit steep - in the very least I feel, I should get an upgrade offer.

hmurchison · July 21, 2002 5:03PM

[quote] Well, I have spent some $20.000 over the last 11 years on Apple hardware alone (not counting another $30.000 I advocated at the university), <hr></blockquote>

That's great but you DID receive Product and Service for your money. Apple cannot adequately provide you enhanced products and services if they are cash starved.

rogue27 · July 22, 2002 9:33AM

First, the problem on these boards is that most people only care about hardware because they pirate all of the software.

Anyway, I had the same thought that Apple charging for Jaguar and .Mac will allow hardware prices to come down.

Right now, when you buy a mac, you are also paying for the OS and iTools and all of the other "free" iApps you can download from Apple.

Apple makes no money on all of this stuff except by including the cost in new hardware. If .Mac can pay for itself through subscriptions, then that cost can be knocked off the price of a new mac. If Jaguar sales can cover the $100 million + that was spent developing Jaguar, then that cost can be taken off the price of a new computer.

Things like this also open the door for Apple to make the shift to being a hardware and software company instead of primarily being just a hardware company. That will allow them more flexibility in the market by making many more options open to them for how to do business.

I will be getting Jaguar at the educational price as soon as it is released and I will probably subscribe to .mac in September at least for the first year where I'll then decide if I want to get a new service or not. But really, $100 a year for .mac is much cheaper and better than many of the other web-hosting services out there. I do think there should be a cheaper e-mail only option though, but I suppose you could pay a friend who has the full version of .mac $10 to get an e-mail only account for you.

steven r wilson · July 22, 2002 7:35PM

[quote]Originally posted by Smircle:

However, the pricing for Jaguar is imho really unfair. I only bought this TiBook last year, received three upgrade vouchers all of which I can trash now (OK I could have spent one on 10.1)? this is a bit steep - in the very least I feel, I should get an upgrade offer.<hr></blockquote>

See, this is the kind of post I can really respect. Smircle, you and I have obviously been with Apple for awhile. So we both must see something we like about the company as well as the products it produces. If you can live without .mac do so, and more power to you. You may wish you'd forked out that $50 in 6 months when the service really starts taking off and you no longer get the $50 discount and have to pay the full $100. But that's your decision, and who knows, maybe you'll be glad you saved the money. All I know is I'm already glad I spent it, I'm going to be *using* that extra iDisk space.

As far as the "unfair" upgrade pricing structure, I think that will settle itself out. I think we should help Apple pay for the R&D costs of Jaguar which had to be considerable *if* we feel we must have the new features it provides. Maybe the only place I might agree with you Smircle, is perhaps Apple should respect some of the "vouchers" it handed out, at least since the past 6 months or so?

As far as what we can expect from .mac beyond a bigger iDisk, and a slightly larger email account server MB limit, here's what we already know:

1. iPhoto picture ordering support (not new)

2. iCal support (ability to publish calendars)

3. iSync support (I'm not 100% on this, but I believe Apple is going to use .mac and iSync to allow us to keep our work computers and home computers synched.)

4. Backup to iDisk (new backup program also works with CD and DVD)

5. Virus Scan (I won't use it, but some will)

Notice a trend here? Apple is going to be adding some form of .mac integration with most if not *all* of it's "iApps" so if you don't pay you won't play. And you can take my word for it, you haven't seen nutt'n yet. Apple has a lot more down the pike, they may be waiting for rosier financial times to pull out some more punches.

I suspect iApps will stay "free downloads" but you might get them sooner with .mac accounts. What I think will happen is you won't be able to use some of the more advanced networking/internet based features without a .mac account.

By the end of the year, I suspect Apple will have enough goodies for .mac members that few will cancel their membership.

Why paying for Jaguar, .mac is a GOOD thing

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