Have this been changed/fixed in Jaguar?
Since people seem to reply faster here than on Apples forums I would like to ask some questions about the upcoming OS X version.
Anyone who tried a recent build please read on.
My first post at Apples forum on this topic:
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"I would be happy to know if the use of contextual menus has improved. This time saving feature could be alot better than it is in 10.1.
Can I for example right (control) click on a window name list to bring up a menu for close, minimize etc.?
Will "select all" be added for the contextual menu for text in a Coccoa applications?
Will I be able to select "cut" when right (control) clicking on a file and then choose paste in another window to move it there?
Basically I want the contextual menus to behave like they do in Windows, whitch is much more intuitive in this area... :-/"
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A part of my second post:
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"Anyway, I have som more questions to you who have tried OS 10.2:
1. Is there an option to turn the blinking when making a menu selection off?
2. Has the stupid behavior (same as in OS 9...) of the menu being truncated when activating a menu close to the bottom of the screen changed?
For example, If right (control) clicking on a folder on the desktop that resides at the bottom of the screen the menu that comes up gets truncated and therefore difficult to select/see it's contents. This is also the case for menus in other applications.
3. Is it possible to turn of (or make faster) the animations when minimizing windows? It would be nice if the window just faded away (fast!) and then showed up in the Dock.
4. Are the Finder Windows so called "Dock aware"?
When zooming a window (clicking on the green + button) a window gets underneath the Dock if the window has items requiring that space. This really is bad since the only way to resize a window is by clicking and dragging the down-right corner.
Over all I don't like the fact that things can get underneath the Dock.
5. Will the file system be update even if I'm not in the Finder?
In certain apps, (Carbon?) for example BBEdit, a file that I save doesn't show in the Finder until I go to the Finder.
I think this is also the case if moving a file in the Terminal.
This is not too horrible, but still it would be better if it did show up immediately.
This doesn't seem to be a problem for Coccoa apps (i.e. TextEdit).
6. Is the spinning circle of death removed? (joke)
Well, I know I have a few more things, but I can't think of them right now..."
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If you want to read the topic that "started it" here's the link:
<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bb8a2d8/9"; target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bb8a2d8/9</a>;
Anyone who tried a recent build please read on.
My first post at Apples forum on this topic:
---
"I would be happy to know if the use of contextual menus has improved. This time saving feature could be alot better than it is in 10.1.
Can I for example right (control) click on a window name list to bring up a menu for close, minimize etc.?
Will "select all" be added for the contextual menu for text in a Coccoa applications?
Will I be able to select "cut" when right (control) clicking on a file and then choose paste in another window to move it there?
Basically I want the contextual menus to behave like they do in Windows, whitch is much more intuitive in this area... :-/"
---
A part of my second post:
---
"Anyway, I have som more questions to you who have tried OS 10.2:
1. Is there an option to turn the blinking when making a menu selection off?
2. Has the stupid behavior (same as in OS 9...) of the menu being truncated when activating a menu close to the bottom of the screen changed?
For example, If right (control) clicking on a folder on the desktop that resides at the bottom of the screen the menu that comes up gets truncated and therefore difficult to select/see it's contents. This is also the case for menus in other applications.
3. Is it possible to turn of (or make faster) the animations when minimizing windows? It would be nice if the window just faded away (fast!) and then showed up in the Dock.
4. Are the Finder Windows so called "Dock aware"?
When zooming a window (clicking on the green + button) a window gets underneath the Dock if the window has items requiring that space. This really is bad since the only way to resize a window is by clicking and dragging the down-right corner.
Over all I don't like the fact that things can get underneath the Dock.
5. Will the file system be update even if I'm not in the Finder?
In certain apps, (Carbon?) for example BBEdit, a file that I save doesn't show in the Finder until I go to the Finder.
I think this is also the case if moving a file in the Terminal.
This is not too horrible, but still it would be better if it did show up immediately.
This doesn't seem to be a problem for Coccoa apps (i.e. TextEdit).
6. Is the spinning circle of death removed? (joke)
Well, I know I have a few more things, but I can't think of them right now..."
---
If you want to read the topic that "started it" here's the link:
<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bb8a2d8/9"; target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bb8a2d8/9</a>;
Comments
<strong>Since people seem to reply faster here than on Apples forums I would like to ask some questions about the upcoming OS X version.
Anyone who tried a recent build please read on.
My first post at Apples forum on this topic:
---
"I would be happy to know if the use of contextual menus has improved. This time saving feature could be alot better than it is in 10.1. </strong><hr></blockquote>
it improved - try it out.
[quote]Will I be able to select "cut" when right (control) clicking on a file and then choose paste in another window to move it there?<hr></blockquote>
i don't see a need of that.
i think it is dangerous to delete something and only hold it in memory 'till you paste it.
[quote]Are the Finder Windows so called "Dock aware"?
When zooming a window (clicking on the green + button) a window gets underneath the Dock if the window has items requiring that space. This really is bad since the only way to resize a window is by clicking and dragging the down-right corner.<hr></blockquote>
try command+shift+D. (this should hide the dock)
if press it again the dock should "push the window up".
[quote]Is the spinning circle of death removed? (joke)<hr></blockquote>
no, but it looks better.
thanks for replying.
How do they solve the "cut" and "paste" to move issue in Windows? It seem to work well there, and I think it's a handy feature. If I never paste it (for example restart after "copying") the file should be placed where it was first.
I guess I'll use spring loaded folders instead... :-)
As for hiding the Dock and then show it again to push up the windows...not very convenient.
<strong>I'd like to know if you can finally move windows by its borders instead of the top menu bar... sometimes when switching resolutions with multiple monitosr I get a window that I cannot get back unless I go to display and change the monitor settings again... quite a pain...</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are no borders to windows, other than the top.
If you lose a window *up* past the menu bar, try hiding the app (Cmd-H) and then showing it again (click on the app in the Dock). This *usually* causes it to refresh it's position to be menubar aware. Or, cycle through the app's windows (Cmd-~).
If all else fails, get 10.2.
<strong>peve,
thanks for replying.
How do they solve the "cut" and "paste" to move issue in Windows? It seem to work well there, and I think it's a handy feature. If I never paste it (for example restart after "copying") the file should be placed where it was first.</strong><hr></blockquote>
'Should be' being the operative phrase here...
Try it. To be honest, I'm not sure what will happen. Or, try cutting a file, then selecting a second file and cutting *it*. Does the first file pop back into existence in the original place? Do you get an error? Or is that first file just... gone? Do you get the second, or both, when you paste?
It was these sorts of issues brought up on the various developer lists for several months before 10.1 was released that led me to believe that eliminating cut from file moving is the best approach. The possible permutations, and how best to inform the user of problems for each, get out of hand pretty quickly.
[quote]<strong>I guess I'll use spring loaded folders instead... :-)
As for hiding the Dock and then show it again to push up the windows...not very convenient.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hit Ctrl-Cmd-D twice in succession. Once to hide the Dock, the second to turn off autohide. (It pops back up.) I can't imagine it being much faster than that.
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
<strong>I'd like to know if you can finally move windows by its borders instead of the top menu bar... sometimes when switching resolutions with multiple monitosr I get a window that I cannot get back unless I go to display and change the monitor settings again... quite a pain...</strong><hr></blockquote>
What Apple really needs to solve this is some sort of keyboard shortcut to get the window into 'move' mode, where you can use the arrow keys to move it around the desktop. This would help solve lost window issues. (Esc would end 'move' mode and return window to initial position, and return would make the position change stick and end 'move' mode)
BTW, we answered this question for you in the other thread ... the answer doesn't change when you ask someone else. I'll re-iterate this, just to be sure though. THERE ARE NO BORDERS. There is only the title bar on the top and the resize grabber thingie on the bottom-right corner.
Try it. To be honest, I'm not sure what will happen. Or, try cutting a file, then selecting a second file and cutting *it*. Does the first file pop back into existence in the original place? Do you get an error? Or is that first file just... gone? Do you get the second, or both, when you paste?<hr></blockquote>
Are you being sarcastic? Or are you confused? 'Cut' when used on a file *should* just mark the file in the clipboard. Nothing happens to the file until you actually paste. It *should* work like copy except that when you paste it copies the file over and then deletes the old file rather than just copying the file over. And like 'copy' when you cut another file without pasting the first, the first *should* lose it's marking in the clipboard and the second file *should* get marking. That's the way it *should* work. At least I think so. If Apple implements it.
***edit***
It's late and I didn't read all of the post,
[quote]It was these sorts of issues brought up on the various developer lists for several months before 10.1 was released that led me to believe that eliminating cut from file moving is the best approach. The possible permutations, and how best to inform the user of problems for each, get out of hand pretty quickly.<hr></blockquote>
Maybe they should have a 'mark to move' (or 'mark for move') and 'move here' options instead. This would work the same way as 'cut' and 'paste' except there is no confusion.
***end edit****
On the original topic though, it is very convenient to select a bunch of text and right click to get a small menu with "(undo),cut,copy,paste,delete" . I prefer keyboard shortcuts above that menu, but I do occasionally use it (Undo is somethimes there in some programs, usually separated from the other options by a bar under it).
[quote]Hit Ctrl-Cmd-D twice in succession. Once to hide the Dock, the second to turn off autohide. (It pops back up.) I can't imagine it being much faster than that.<hr></blockquote>
I think that he meant that he should have to do that keystroke. Maybe the green '+' button should just expand the window *up to* the dock, and if you want it beyong the dock you have to manually stretch it there. Or maybe it should only expand up to the dock when the dock is covering the all or most of the bottom of the screen ( so that it doesn't cover the resize grabber thingie ).
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: pyr3 ]</p>
***edit***
It's late and I didn't read all of the post,<hr></blockquote>
S'alright.
I think you actually prove my point though - what you've described isn't cut, as defined anywhere else in the system.
And actually, I was asking him to test it on a Windows box... what does it actually do? Honestly, I have no idea, and given MS's track record with consistency and UI issues, I can't even make a reasonable guess.
[quote]Maybe they should have a 'mark to move' (or 'mark for move') and 'move here' options instead. This would work the same way as 'cut' and 'paste' except there is no confusion.<hr></blockquote>
Except that they *don't* work like cut and paste, as you pointed out above. "Well, it should only mark it, and not actually remove it, but..."
Cut cuts, period. Cut again, and the first cut content is gone. This is the way it works, period, regardless of the content. Trying to shoehorn some byzantine logic that works *only* for files, and calling it the same thing, is for Windows, not the Mac.
So yes, calling it something else would help, but then again, so would re-enabling the toolbar to act like it's predecessor, the NeXT Shelf. (If you moved a file to the Shelf, and then from the Shelf to another location, it moved it in the file structure, much like cut and paste, but you always saw where your file was, and couldn't accidentally wipe it out or wonder what was going to happen.
[quote]On the original topic though, it is very convenient to select a bunch of text and right click to get a small menu with "(undo),cut,copy,paste,delete" . I prefer keyboard shortcuts above that menu, but I do occasionally use it (Undo is somethimes there in some programs, usually separated from the other options by a bar under it).<hr></blockquote>
Contextual menus are great for quick actions like that, I totally agree. Copy and paste both make sense for files, but cut doesn't. I think we've both shown that there is too much that would have to be changed about the behaviour to qualify calling it 'cut'.
[quote]I think that he meant that he should have to do that keystroke. Maybe the green '+' button should just expand the window *up to* the dock, and if you want it beyong the dock you have to manually stretch it there. <hr></blockquote>
This is how most apps worked, well behaved ones at least. IIRC, Cocoa apps do this automatically, Carbon apps have to be updated to do this... if you find an app that doesn't, gripe directly to the developers, since that's where the blame lies at this point in time.
[quote]Or maybe it should only expand up to the dock when the dock is covering the all or most of the bottom of the screen ( so that it doesn't cover the resize grabber thingie ).<hr></blockquote>
Well, I keep mine on the left side, so I don't run into these problems.
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
<strong>
Cut cuts, period. Cut again, and the first cut content is gone. This is the way it works, period, regardless of the content. Trying to shoehorn some byzantine logic that works *only* for files, and calling it the same thing, is for Windows, not the Mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well said. Cut/Paste of files in Windows always terrifies me because I can never keep track of what is going to happen. Excel is the same way. I hate that app...
[quote]<strong>So yes, calling it something else would help, but then again, so would re-enabling the toolbar to act like it's predecessor, the NeXT Shelf. (If you moved a file to the Shelf, and then from the Shelf to another location, it moved it in the file structure, much like cut and paste, but you always saw where your file was, and couldn't accidentally wipe it out or wonder what was going to happen.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's a decent utility called XShelf (check versiontracker) that does just this. It's free, and a bit quirky in that it sometimes doesn't want to hide or show, but it's never lost any of my files. It uses Finder key modifiers for alias/move/copy and is invaluable in 10.1.
It and LaunchBar are must haves, IMO.
Meh, so I forgot about that last post