iPhone 3.0: 100 new features for users; 1,000 new APIs for devs

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  • Reply 141 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I'm suspicious of claims like this. I haven't seen a computing device that did not need reboots. Even people who claim they've run OS X for six months without a reboot. I tell them it would run much better if you'd done a reboot in that time.



    Why?



    I am a developer for a router company.. our software runs on a linux platform and runs for years until we want to upgrade them. I also have Windows Server boxes in the building that have uptimes for 6+ months at a time.. they run basic functions and services and the code is well tested and without major bugs... reboots are simply not necessary.
  • Reply 142 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    The MMS feature will be severely crippled...



    MMS which has been around for a while on AT&Ts own network worked fine on their Edge network.. it still works with other phones daily... but for whatever reason even if you have a 3G phone (Which I own both) the MMS feature will only work if it has a 3G connection. Now even in the middle of downtown Chicago my Iphone will kick in and out of 3G mode... basically the feature will be broken more often than it is working considering the limited 3G network. Move outside of the Chicago city limits and 3G coverage becomes a screen with holes in it everwhere... a number of miles outside of Chicago and 3G is gone then all the way acrossed the state in the Quad Cities area is picks up again leaving an entire void in the middle where MMS support will be nil. Seems crippled to me..but what do I know.



    It's really a mixed bag... I do like the fact that updates are free and add new features but it seems like they are taking approaches that don't make sense and simply telling people 'this is just how it works' with no real answers.



    Maybe this is the norm for Apple



    It's not the feature on the phone thats crippled. It's a network problem.



    Here's an interesting article on this from the Wiki, which is pretty accurate. You'll notice some of the problems. Also, if you catch the drift, you will realize that it's moving to the 3G networks, and off the 2.5 G networks, so any drop in service there will affect it.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multime...saging_Service
  • Reply 143 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Why?



    I am a developer for a router company.. our software runs on a linux platform and runs for years until we want to upgrade them. I also have Windows Server boxes in the building that have uptimes for 6+ months at a time.. they run basic functions and services and the code is well tested and without major bugs... reboots are simply not necessary.



    He's talking about computers for the home.



    Commercial installations, hopefully, have professionals running them, with a wrung out system that is stable, and using software that has been tested to work in that installation, with proper maintenance of both the software and hardware. Server OS's are more robust, and have services to allow those running the system to know what's happening.



    And still, there are problems.



    Home computing is, as you know, a very different environment.
  • Reply 144 of 170
    murphstermurphster Posts: 177member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven R Wilson View Post


    There's simply no such thing as a background process running on a severely resource constrained device (battery, limited cpu and ram) running "quietly in the background."



    Sorry, but you are wrong. There is and I use them everyday.
  • Reply 145 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    He's talking about computers for the home.



    Commercial installations, hopefully, have professionals running them, with a wrung out system that is stable, and using software that has been tested to work in that installation, with proper maintenance of both the software and hardware. Server OS's are more robust, and have services to allow those running the system to know what's happening.



    And still, there are problems.



    Home computing is, as you know, a very different environment.



    This is very true.. though with such a closed niche enviroment (when we are dealing with Apples product and without a 3rd party program running) should the Iphone remain just as stable? Maybe I expect too much.
  • Reply 146 of 170
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    The flip side of that is keeping a charger near by.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Sorry, but you are wrong. There is and I use them everyday.



  • Reply 147 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's not the feature on the phone thats crippled. It's a network problem.



    Here's an interesting article on this from the Wiki, which is pretty accurate. You'll notice some of the problems. Also, if you catch the drift, you will realize that it's moving to the 3G networks, and off the 2.5 G networks, so any drop in service there will affect it.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multime...saging_Service



    Good link...I guess my biggest issue with it is that it's already working on the 2.5 G networks... even offering some kind of Wifi utilization for MMS would have been nice but to cut off a mass population of users with a 3G limitation just doesn't seem right.
  • Reply 148 of 170
    murphstermurphster Posts: 177member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Why?



    I am a developer for a router company.. our software runs on a linux platform and runs for years until we want to upgrade them. I also have Windows Server boxes in the building that have uptimes for 6+ months at a time.. they run basic functions and services and the code is well tested and without major bugs... reboots are simply not necessary.



    Cisco?



    I was under the impression that Cisco recommend a reboot every couple of months as a matter of good housekeeping.
  • Reply 149 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    This is very true.. though with such a closed niche enviroment (when we are dealing with Apples product and without a 3rd party program running) should the Iphone remain just as stable? Maybe I expect too much.



    I've already got five screens of programs, and I suspect that's not unusual.



    I have up of a hundred on my tower.
  • Reply 150 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Good link...I guess my biggest issue with it is that it's already working on the 2.5 G networks... even offering some kind of Wifi utilization for MMS would have been nice but to cut off a mass population of users with a 3G limitation just doesn't seem right.



    No different from what every government is doing with HD Tv.
  • Reply 151 of 170
    murphstermurphster Posts: 177member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    What IS interesting is that despite the limitations, the iPhone has already made big inroads into business, and will continue to do so.



    Not as much as you think, I spend all day with clients and the only iPhones I see are where the user has bought their own (usually sys admins) and connected it to exchange. The actual users are still on BB's and to a lesser degree winmob and Nokia's.



    Corporate policy decide what phones are introduced not techies or admins. iPhone is not being seriously considered by any of my clients at all, though there has been a few conversations about it, so there is some interest just not enough yet. Apple still have work to do, as discussed running more than one app is one, another and perhaps more important is the reliance on the app store.



    Vinea may mock my claims, but iPhones are being marketed as toys (by this I mean fun phones that let you do lots of things, surf web, download music, play games etc..) And yes while of course you can do these on the BB too, the Blackberry Bold and Curve are not marketed as such. Many, many CIO's are not convinced that they should be giving phones to staff that will allow them to do all this stuff on. They want to give phones to staff that will help them get their job done and not distract them anymore than they do. Hence why I said if Apple want to get serious about BB's core market they need a new model aimed at business that is marketed towards business. And please give it some proper keys!



    And yes people can disagree with me, but this is my business and I speak to these people every day.
  • Reply 152 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Not as much as you think, I spend all day with clients and the only iPhones I see are where the user has bought their own (usually sys admins) and connected it to exchange. The actual users are still on BB's and to a lesser degree winmob and Nokia's.



    Corporate policy decide what phones are introduced not techies or admins. iPhone is not being seriously considered by any of my clients at all, though there has been a few conversations about it, so there is some interest just not enough yet. Apple still have work to do, as discussed running more than one app is one, another and perhaps more important is the reliance on the app store.



    Vinea may mock my claims, but iPhones are being marketed as toys (by this I mean fun phones that let you do lots of things, surf web, download music, play games etc..) And yes while of course you can do these on the BB too, the Blackberry Bold and Curve are not marketed as such. Many, many CIO's are not convinced that they should be giving phones to staff that will allow them to do all this stuff on. They want to give phones to staff that will help them get their job done and not distract them anymore than they do. Hence why I said if Apple want to get serious about BB's core market they need a new model aimed at business that is marketed towards business. And please give it some proper keys!



    And yes people can disagree with me, but this is my business and I speak to these people every day.



    Your clients are obviously a subset of the great world out there. Many organizations have moved over. There have been lots of stories on this over the past year.
  • Reply 153 of 170
    If 10 million ipod customer upgrade to OS 3.0, apple would make 100 million, there is no way apple would have spend even half of that money for this release. This is what power of software means....

    The things I am existed about are the ones people are not paying attention too... platform features (developer oriented rather than user oriented)...last year introduction of gps on iphone created an explosion of location services (at that time established platform such as PC and MAC did not have location APIs (since hardware does not have the GPS nor partical to have those function) .... this year apple is accessorizing the iphone via exposing the APIs for iphone hardware (USB, bluetooth, voice, sensors), these new additions would cause a explosion of application for consumer electronic hardware integration with iphone.... iphone may become a center of gravity for lot of hardware that has right now, no good way of integrating with the rest of the world...Some of the other vendors (Palm, BB, Google) may copy hardware integration aspect in 6-9 months

    Hardware integration is an important step...apple is telling the hardware vendors we are building the best portable computing platform that is easy to use, develop and powerful UI...you only need to worry about the peripherals hardware for application (weather it is medical/engineering equipment, consumer electronic etc)....time to market would be key for those hardware vendors by using iphone as the app delivery mechanism they can really make a powerful product considering iphone as other hardware capabilities which they don't have to built(cell radio, GPS, audio recognisition, data processing, archiving and presenting capabilities)

    Other than that I believe apple got to come up with a better push notifications management before June other wise this will be really annoying experience. imagine 10-20 apps using push notification that would to very interrupting experience.
  • Reply 154 of 170
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Not as much as you think, I spend all day with clients and the only iPhones I see are where the user has bought their own (usually sys admins) and connected it to exchange. The actual users are still on BB's and to a lesser degree winmob and Nokia's.



    If you spend all day with sys admins who administer windows servers most often no kidding they aren't as likely to have iPhones vs BB's and winmob.



    Try meeting with non-IT management and you'll see a good number of iPhones. CIOs and IT management resist the iPhone because it's not what they are used to and view it as more workload. However, if the CEO tells the CIO to make it happen, then after the requisite amount of foot dragging, it happens.



    Quote:

    Corporate policy decide what phones are introduced not techies or admins. iPhone is not being seriously considered by any of my clients at all, though there has been a few conversations about it, so there is some interest just not enough yet. Apple still have work to do, as discussed running more than one app is one, another and perhaps more important is the reliance on the app store.



    Yes, this is why there are no enterprise iPhone devs building apps for internal use. Not. Activesync was a major reason that iPhone enterprise penetration went up since 2.0. The most important app (email) is already running in the background.



    3.0 introduces VPN on demand, and cert revocation. Two items more important than backgrounding apps to IT. Sybase and SAP are pushing into iPhone apps. SAP Business Suite 7 is getting on the iPhone and there's no freaking reason for them to do that if iPhone enterprise penetration is as low as you think.



    Quote:

    Vinea may mock my claims, but iPhones are being marketed as toys (by this I mean fun phones that let you do lots of things, surf web, download music, play games etc..)



    I mock you because your claims are severely biased (evidenced by your word choices) and your experiences more limited than you think.



    Quote:

    Many, many CIO's are not convinced that they should be giving phones to staff that will allow them to do all this stuff on. They want to give phones to staff that will help them get their job done and not distract them anymore than they do. Hence why I said if Apple want to get serious about BB's core market they need a new model aimed at business that is marketed towards business. And please give it some proper keys!



    No, Apple simply has to wait a bit and address the real concerns (it ain't keyboards, games or backgrounding apps...it's enterprise security). CIOs are slow to move but if enough other execs pester them they change.



    Quote:

    And yes people can disagree with me, but this is my business and I speak to these people every day.



    And I meet with tech execs and staff (R&D...not IT weenies) and it's different. Not every day but I make a note of what smartphones they carry since some of our applications are for the mobile space.
  • Reply 155 of 170
    rolandgrolandg Posts: 632member
    With the opening of the dock connector (and bluetooth) to third party developers will Apple finally make the Nike+ sports kit work on the iPhone as it does on the iPod touch?
  • Reply 156 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No different from what every government is doing with HD Tv.



    Good point.. is there a big push to remove the 2.5G spectrum for other uses?? or is it completely saturated and failing already?
  • Reply 157 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Cisco?



    I was under the impression that Cisco recommend a reboot every couple of months as a matter of good housekeeping.



    Nope..but I have replaced several Cisco devices that had been running for very long periods of time (12+ months).



    Depending on who you talk to I think that old 'reboot once in a while' mantra gets thrown out for about everything. I know some people that honestly believe windows should be completely reinstalled every 6 months or it starts crashing (being on an Apple Forum I am sure many of you will agree with this..haha)...
  • Reply 158 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Good point.. is there a big push to remove the 2.5G spectrum for other uses?? or is it completely saturated and failing already?



    I don't really know. I do know that the carriers are pushing 3G and after, very hard. They want people to pay for those services, but it's been a hard sell.



    Actually, they are rejoicing over the iPhone because of the high net usage there. That's why they are so eager to embrace other manufacturers that are starting to copy it. They really want to sell the data services that people have been resisting, and so they are beginning to give up more control.



    Phone sales are ending their large growth stage. Not because of the economic condition now, but because most people who want a phone already have one. In the US, 85% of people now have a cellphone.



    The only way they can continue growing their businesses is to move subscribers to the next level. The iPhone has made that more acceptable to people. Before, there was little reason for people to do so. Mostly, the experience sucked, and there was little to do.



    Eventually, I would imagine that EDGE, CDMA and GSM will go away, and 4G will take over. But that will take years.
  • Reply 159 of 170
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Reinstalling the OS is entirely different from turning the machine off every once in awhile.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Depending on who you talk to I think that old 'reboot once in a while' mantra gets thrown out for about everything. I know some people that honestly believe windows should be completely reinstalled every 6 months or it starts crashing (being on an Apple Forum I am sure many of you will agree with this..haha)...



  • Reply 160 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Reinstalling the OS is entirely different from turning the machine off every once in awhile.



    I agree..was just pointing out that people will recommend things sometimes that are not necessary.
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