Apple's lack of new hardware
I post this on these forums because it seems like
most of you are willing to listen to fair criticism regarding Apple. So here's my take:
The current (meaning last 12 months) take of Apples hardware lineup has been terribly managed at the cost of the long devoted Apple consumer. Specifically I refer to the debacle that is Apple's Power Mac line. The MHZ Myth does exist, to a point. But thats not really my point. Apple went along way in touting all of the quicksilver models as being much faster than 1.7 ghz pentiums. Fine. People bought that. Yet now the i-mac gets the guts of the current Power Mac line up at a much reduced cost and a superdrive to boot. The 733 Quicksilvers minus the monitor deserved at least the same. Then there is the combo-drive Tibook sneak attack which didn't sit well with many Ti buyers. But most annoying was the "count on being blown away" bull Apple threw out there. Enough is enough. Steve Jobs has to either release top of the line products with all the trimmings or he needs to step down. Enough of these special event announcements. Most are tired of it. This isn't a fashion show. IF you have the g5's or g4 Apollo towers get them out of lose the rest of your already dwindling customer base.
I love using Macs. I work with them. But this is getting absurd. Do we have to be spoon-fed Steve Jobs's new i-Mac before getting sufficient towers?
Flame away but I think I speak the truth for many.
most of you are willing to listen to fair criticism regarding Apple. So here's my take:
The current (meaning last 12 months) take of Apples hardware lineup has been terribly managed at the cost of the long devoted Apple consumer. Specifically I refer to the debacle that is Apple's Power Mac line. The MHZ Myth does exist, to a point. But thats not really my point. Apple went along way in touting all of the quicksilver models as being much faster than 1.7 ghz pentiums. Fine. People bought that. Yet now the i-mac gets the guts of the current Power Mac line up at a much reduced cost and a superdrive to boot. The 733 Quicksilvers minus the monitor deserved at least the same. Then there is the combo-drive Tibook sneak attack which didn't sit well with many Ti buyers. But most annoying was the "count on being blown away" bull Apple threw out there. Enough is enough. Steve Jobs has to either release top of the line products with all the trimmings or he needs to step down. Enough of these special event announcements. Most are tired of it. This isn't a fashion show. IF you have the g5's or g4 Apollo towers get them out of lose the rest of your already dwindling customer base.
I love using Macs. I work with them. But this is getting absurd. Do we have to be spoon-fed Steve Jobs's new i-Mac before getting sufficient towers?
Flame away but I think I speak the truth for many.
Comments
<strong>The current (meaning last 12 months) take of Apples hardware lineup has been terribly managed at the cost of the long devoted Apple consumer. Specifically I refer to the debacle that is Apple's Power Mac line.</strong><hr></blockquote>The iMac was ready, so they released it. The chips for the PowerMac are not ready. How much would people be complaining if they'd held the iMac back or put a lower-Mhz processor in it?
What happens to your theory if new, much faster Powermacs are introduced by the time the new G4 iMac is actually available?
<strong>I agree, VelocityEngined. It is beginning to look like a fashion show, with only a turtlneck, a pair of jeans, and some BS hardware</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't think I am happy about this. Have you ever known another company to have customers tell them EXACTLY what they want in future products (at beyond reasonable requests) only to have Jobs do the exact opposite? EX: Give us a 1ghz Cube at $999 and they'll sell a million of them. Nope: buy the new i-mac that is useless to graphics pros (long term that is).
How about a tower with current bus speeds and at least 1ghz+ speeds and we'll still pay your inflated prices (yes 1699 for a tower is very expensive). Sorry, nowhere to be seen.
It's ok though. According to Apple the 800 mhz i-Mac runs 50% faster than a Pentium 4. Not trying to be sarcastic but it's hard not to be at this stage.
What happens to your theory if new, much faster Powermacs are introduced by the time the new G4 iMac is actually available?[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Hey Sizzle, it (my theory) remains intact when the faster power macs are released. All I am saying is that the smoke and mirrors technique has worn thin. These are not toys people are buying. Most use Apples products for work and production. I have no problem with the new i-mac or its future success. But how does the supposedly fast, really fast Quicksilver chips get into the new i-mac so soon? Answer: they are not that fast and Apple knows it. Why all the secrecy about new Power Macs?
<strong>
Don't think I am happy about this. Have you ever known another company to have customers tell them EXACTLY what they want in future products (at beyond reasonable requests) only to have Jobs do the exact opposite? EX: Give us a 1ghz Cube at $999 and they'll sell a million of them. Nope: buy the new i-mac that is useless to graphics pros (long term that is).
How about a tower with current bus speeds and at least 1ghz+ speeds and we'll still pay your inflated prices (yes 1699 for a tower is very expensive). Sorry, nowhere to be seen.
It's ok though. According to Apple the 800 mhz i-Mac runs 50% faster than a Pentium 4. Not trying to be sarcastic but it's hard not to be at this stage.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Join the club. Anybody that isn't an Apple apologist should be pissed at their pro desktop. It is overpriced and underpowered. Hopefully, they remedy this soon. I think they will...but I agree it shouldn't have gone on this long.
1Ghz Cube at 999 IS NOT reasonable.
Customers do tell Apple what they want. And when Apple can they deliver
examples
1.) Demand for more than 3 PCI slots. Apple gives 4 now.
2.) Demand for G4 imac. Apple delivers G4 in imac
3.) Demand for LCD in iMac. Apple delivers LCD imac
4.) Demand for Superdrive in iMac, Apple delivers superdrive imac
5.) Demand for larger iBook screen. Apple delivers 14 inch iBook
Apple did all this but they had to do it had a pricepoint that will be successful for them. Apple has revealed today that the margins on the iMac are small compared to the original and not where they would like them. Apple can only do the highend for 1799. If you have a problem with that you'll have to deal with it. Apple can't just slash prices. they would lose tons of money.
BTW, how is the imac useless to graphic pros?
[quote]How about a tower with current bus speeds and at least 1ghz+ speeds and we'll still pay your inflated prices (yes 1699 for a tower is very expensive). Sorry, nowhere to be seen.<hr></blockquote>
I think its a given that the PowerMacs are outdated and that an update is coming ASAP. Don't just stink on this one product when you know its as close to dead as being dead
[quote] According to Apple the 800 mhz i-Mac runs 50% faster than a Pentium 4. Not trying to be sarcastic but it's hard not to be at this stage. <hr></blockquote>
how can you be upset about the iMac
<strong>
Don't think I am happy about this. Have you ever known another company to have customers tell them EXACTLY what they want in future products (at beyond reasonable requests) only to have Jobs do the exact opposite? EX: Give us a 1ghz Cube at $999 and they'll sell a million of them. Nope: buy the new i-mac that is useless to graphics pros (long term that is).
How about a tower with current bus speeds and at least 1ghz+ speeds and we'll still pay your inflated prices (yes 1699 for a tower is very expensive). Sorry, nowhere to be seen.
It's ok though. According to Apple the 800 mhz i-Mac runs 50% faster than a Pentium 4. Not trying to be sarcastic but it's hard not to be at this stage.</strong><hr></blockquote> What Pentuim 4 is Apple talking about! Does anybody believe that balony Apple puts out? MHZ dosen't count! Are they kidding our what? The Cube=over priced, over hyped, under powered gimmick that didn't work!!!!
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: rbald ]</p>
Applenut, why isn't a 1ghz Cube reasonable at $999? Not even a G3 version? What makes apple customers believe that any Apple processor at 1 ghz is worth 1600 or so dollars? Not trying to argue with you/ Just wondering why that is so
unreasonable. Would $1100 be ok?
[quote]Originally posted by VelocityEngined:
Applenut, why isn't a 1ghz Cube reasonable at $999? Not even a G3 version? What makes apple customers believe that any Apple processor at 1 ghz is worth 1600 or so dollars? Not trying to argue with you/ Just wondering why that is so
unreasonable. Would $1100 be ok?
<strong>1.) A G3 is not considerably less money than a G4
2.) a 1Ghz G4 would still cost a lot
3.) How could Apple justify the price of its powermac line while a 999 machine ships with as fast or faster chip?
4.) they would likely not have sufficient margins</strong><hr></blockquote>
5) There is no 1GHz G3. Not till autumn 2002.
[edit: ACK! Sorry, applenut, I hit edit instead of reply! Bad moderator! No cookie! -Amorph]
[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]
[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Hmmm...
Asked for slot-loading combodrive in PBG4 - check
Asked for a G4 iMac - Got it
Asked for an iBook with a larger screen - check
Asked to bring back many features in OS X (including AppleTalk and the forthcoming return of springloaded folders) - check, check, check.
No way. You know that the Cube didn't sell because it was originally $1799. Jobs priced it that way because he was sure the design would sell the product. That was a terrible management
decision by Jobs. By the time it reached 1299 it was to late. Your point about 999 hurting higher end Power Mac sales is EXACTLY my point. Apple has created their own problem here with the price ranges. A 3500 dollar tower is foolish ant this point. FYI: BusinessWeek has an article on Macworld this week and they basically say that while the new i-mac is nice, many, including the media were expecting much more thanks to the "count on being blown away" scam. Yes, they mentioned that slogan in particular.
<strong>
Customers do tell Apple what they want. And when Apple can they deliver
examples
1.) Demand for more than 3 PCI slots. Apple gives 4 now.
2.) Demand for G4 imac. Apple delivers G4 in imac
3.) Demand for LCD in iMac. Apple delivers LCD imac
4.) Demand for Superdrive in iMac, Apple delivers superdrive imac
5.) Demand for larger iBook screen. Apple delivers 14 inch iBook </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yah.. except they take forever to do it
<strong>[QUOTE]Applenut, why isn't a 1ghz Cube reasonable at $999?</strong><hr></blockquote>I can think of one reason: the 1 Ghz chip doesn't exist.
A 700Mhz G4 cube would be reasonable, given that the iMac with the display is $1299.
I think it's interesting that they've said they have lower margins on this new iMac. We should have a debate now about whether that's really a good idea. For so long, people have said Apple's prices are too high, but most PC manufacturers with low margins haven't been doing too well, save one (Dell). Apple first needs to just survive, and the way to do that is to have high margins. Sucks for us, but having too-low margins is just too risky.
"The recently released product isn't targeted to me! That must mean Apple is going down the tubes!"
"Why, Apple's released iMacs with chips in the tower's class! They must be utterly unaware of the contradiction! If only they read AppleInsider's forums to learn their crucial mistake!"
"I can't fathom why Apple wouldn't want to deflect attention from their new iMac by simultaneously announcing upgraded towers! They must be stupid or something!"
"Why doesn't Apple release a 1.6ghz Cube for $499? They'd sell a ton of them! They must be stupid or something!"
"Why doesn't Apple put a 1Ghz G3 in the new iMac? I read on a rumor site once that they were theoretically possible, so there must be a substantial supply of them! Apple must be stupid or something!"
Did I cover all the bases here? Let me know if there's any more we should index for future reference.
<strong>I can think of one reason: the 1 Ghz chip doesn't exist.
A 700Mhz G4 cube would be reasonable, given that the iMac with the display is $1299.
I think it's interesting that they've said they have lower margins on this new iMac. We should have a debate now about whether that's really a good idea. For so long, people have said Apple's prices are too high, but most PC manufacturers with low margins haven't been doing too well, save one (Dell). Apple first needs to just survive, and the way to do that is to have high margins. Sucks for us, but having too-low margins is just too risky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Didn't even think of that. A 700 or 800G4 Cube would be so nice. Your right about one thing. No computer manufacturer is doing well right now.
I think Jobs wants Apple to be a consumer product company first. He wants to sell ipods, i-macs etc.
<strong>Ah, another loony bin thread.
"The recently released product isn't targeted to me! That must mean Apple is going down the tubes!"
"Why, Apple's released iMacs with chips in the tower's class! They must be utterly unaware of the contradiction! If only they read AppleInsider's forums to learn their crucial mistake!"
"I can't fathom why Apple wouldn't want to deflect attention from their new iMac by simultaneously announcing upgraded towers! They must be stupid or something!"
"Why doesn't Apple release a 1.6ghz Cube for $499? They'd sell a ton of them! They must be stupid or something!"
"Why doesn't Apple put a 1Ghz G3 in the new iMac? I read on a rumor site once that they were theoretically possible, so there must be a substantial supply of them! Apple must be stupid or something!"
Did I cover all the bases here? Let me know if there's any more we should index for future reference.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You missed one:
"The 867mhz G4 is 58% faster than a Pentium 4 running at 1.7 ghz"
I don't understand all the anger being directed towards the powermac lineup. If Apple had given the powermacs some lame half-assed update at MWSF, then I'd be pissed too. But they didn't even touch the powermacs! To me this means that the powermacs are about to get a bitchin' update real soon.
Why not wait until the powermacs are updated, and THEN complain if they don't meet your expectations? It's not like we've been stuck at 867 MHz for 18 months.
LOL, I'm still laughing at the dork who sold his Powermac before MWSF so he could get more money for it, which he would then put towards one of the new powermacs! For the love of GOD! No matter how real rumors seem, they are just that, rumors. Basing important purchasing decisions on rumors is akin to guiding one's life using astrological charts and palm reader's advice. Fire up the incense, light a few dozen candles, and get the chants out, time to predict the new G5's clockspeed!