Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad

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  • Reply 321 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.



    And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.



    Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).



    My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.



    And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.



    I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.



    I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...

    Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.



    I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?



    I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...



    Three words you should look up at Dictionary.com



    1) VAPID

    2) IGNORANT

    3) Concise



    Would be amazing to see you actually get to the point. Reading your post gave me a headache.



    Saying there are any "issues" w/o being specific about anything is like hearing some full of crap journalist say "Consensus says".... in other words... "I'm just pulling this shit out of my butt".



    I've got an older 1.6GHz G5 tower at my office. It seems slow now (when compared to the new iMac at home which is a screamer) but I've had both versions of OS X you mentioned on it... and guess what.... since the beginning of 2004 when I got this



    I've NEVER HAD A SYSTEM CRASH.... I can't say the same for the countless POS windows machines I've worked on.



    If you can't see the differences in working with one OS over the other then that is the true proof of just how currently ignorant you are on the subject. My time is worth money. Steve Jobs and company appreciate this...... Bill Gates and that fat blow hard Ballmer don't..... so guess who gets my $ when I buy my computers?



    Z
  • Reply 322 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post


    How do Mac users know if they have a virus if they don't run antivirus? Simple. Unlike Windows, Mac OS X isn't transparent to the user. Malware can't just hide from a competent user.



    Oh, gee, I don't know... Gigabit ethernet? 802.11n? iSight? (Your shitty webcam isn't the same.) A magnetic latch? Backlit keyboard? Sudden Motion Sensor? Unibody design? Multi-touch trackpad? LED backlit display? Less than an inch thick? Weighs 4.5 lbs.? Better battery life? Optical digital audio in/out? Bluetooth? DisplayPort? Slot loading optical drive? (No tray to break.) Better sounding speakers?



    If you ask me, you just got your ass handed to you. I didn't even touch on your Dell's software inadequacies.



    Mate...



    My NZ$1500 (US$700) HP has, gee, gigabit ethernet. a/b/g/n wireless. Decent webcam with 2 noise-cancellation mikes. 3D drive guard. Fingerprint reader. Bluetooth. Is based on latest Montevina platform. And so on. And it is NZ$800 cheaper than unibody Macbook.



    You started your post correctly, though; with "Oh, gee, I don't know". Things like Bluetooth, Gigabit network... are common for some time now. It is really discouraging entering discussion with people who think PCs in general are still in late '90.



    No, my laptop does not have magnetic latch. You really reckon it is so important..? And it is plastic (though it does not crack). And no backlight keyboard. And no DisplayPort (thanks God for that!). And DVD is not slot-loading.



    But it does have Firewire. Standard composite video output (so I can plug it to any TV with 5$ cable). PC card (which I use for wireless broadband adapter). Basic battery gives only 6 hours 15 minutes idle, 4 - 5 hours light work (email, Internet with wireless, document typing/reading). But I can swap basic battery with stronger one and add secondary battery which will increase weight but will give me easily 15 hours of autonomy (which is great for whole day on the beach, camping weekend, or those pesky international flights - which, for us Kiwis, almost every one is). And my DVD is LightScribe capable and can easily be removed (without opening case) and replaced with BR drive.



    And it is still NZ$800 cheaper than MacBook that does not have some of above mentioned things even as option.



    So... what is your point..?



    Anyway... what makes iSight camera so special? Beside cool name? I recall old external one was very high end with glass optics, auto-focus etc, but built-in one seems to be pretty ordinary..?
  • Reply 323 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post


    What you really mean is: Yes.



    We have 5 year old Macs that work fine with Leopard (there is no Snow Leopard yet). In fact, the iMac G4/1.0 17" was introduced in Feb 2003, and that's over 6 years ago. And it's fully supported by Leopard, and runs just great. My kids get hand-me-down hardware, and it just keeps working and working and working. And getting better with each new OS release - which conveniently comes in affordable family packs.



    And if you're really saying you haven't seen 5 year old PC hardware that can't run Vista, you're either a fking liar, or ignorant beyond belief. Go read a few articles instead of coming in here and leaving post after post of troll bullshit.



    Silly...



    I'm not saying there is no 5 years old hardware that will not run Vista, but I am saying I haven't seen it yet myself. And we did upgrade number our clients' desktops and notebooks to Vista. Every P4 we were asked to reinstall with Vista did well - some needed more RAM to run comfortably, but that was all.



    You don't trust me? That is not really my problem. You like to believe Vista's hardware compatibility hasn't improved much since beta releases? That is not really my problem either.
  • Reply 324 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    No, I called him a liar because his post was pretty much a compendium of MS talking points, he apparently chose to register on a Mac enthusiast site even though he specifically stated that he disliked our company, and he made some highly suspect claims about his experience of Windows as a pristine nirvana.



    I have to ask myself why someone who is enjoying using their PCs would ever see the need to seek out Mac users to school them in the error of their ways.



    You, on the other hand, without knowing me, have elected to question how I was raised, based on my failure to conform to your vision of the world.



    Which just makes you an asshole.



    I'll accept that - my remark regarding values you've brought from your parents' home was uncalled for. I don't know you and should not judge you so lightly. My sincere apologies for that. I was an asshole.



    Time spent in these forums is getting to me... in a way.



    Other part, well, I still think you are wrong. That man's personal experience with both PC and Mac can be perfectly valid - from his point of view. You are judging him lightly as well simply because his experience is not echoing your experience - or your opinion.



    Unless you have some kind of divine insight in his personal and computing life.
  • Reply 325 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    You've not dealt with Sony.







    If you know of Snow Leopard, then you know it isn't an option now or maybe ever, but Leopard runs just fine on my 7-year-old PowerBook G4. When Leopard debuted, my PB was well over 5 years old. And your point was?



    No I haven't.



    I did say all computers I have seen (coincidently all computers we were asked to reinstall/upgrade with Vista). Mostly HPs and Lenovos, some Acers. Also some custom built boxes (TPG, PBTech, Ultra...).



    Most of our clients did wait for SP1 for Vista, and with that hardware compatibility reached more than acceptable levels.



    Sony as a brand is not common in corporate environments, at least not here in NZ.



    Additionally, number of hardware available for Windows platform is making it much harder for MS to keep compatibility compared to Apple; regarding that, they are playing in completely different leagues. And with that in mind, I'd say MS is actually doing very decent job compatibility wise.
  • Reply 326 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by filebunch View Post


    I've worked with Apple and PC computers (PC by day, Apple by night).



    There is nothing truly bad with either platform. But lets make a comparison.



    If you need to buy a car, you can buy a Hyundai or a BMW--both will get you to where you want to go, but one is inexpensive, the other is not. Yet folks still buy BMW's for whatever reason. Some might perceive the BMW to be better; some may say it's a waste of money and I could have the Hyundai and some cash in my pocket.



    The lower end PC is the Hyundai. It will get you where you want to go, but maybe slower, clunkier and in less style. The best PC is a Cadillac. Windows Vista Basic is a four cylinder, Premium a V-8.



    The Apple is a BMW. Nicer design, pretty to look at, possibly better engineering a better engine in all model lines. Is it worth the extra money? To some yes. Does it look better in the driveway? Better than most PC's. Is the OS better? I have to say yes. Does it cost more to repair? Sure.



    Microsoft recent ad campaign, a good one, depicts the Hyundai buyer. There will always be lots of Hyundai buyers.



    Not a bad compare... but...



    This BMW has BMW body and, say, cockpit (user interface?)... but engine, gearbox, everything else mechanical... is same as Hyundai.



    That is more the way I see it.



    and then, some of those great looking bodies will get cracks. and you start wondering if they are real BMW bodies, or just good looking but not so high quality copies.
  • Reply 327 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Additionally, number of hardware available for Windows platform is making it much harder for MS to keep compatibility compared to Apple; regarding that, they are playing in completely different leagues. And with that in mind, I'd say MS is actually doing very decent job compatibility wise.



    Indeed it is a very difficult job, much like polishing the brass on the Titanic.
  • Reply 328 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    What anti-virus software do you use that takes hours each month installing, configuring and running? Just install something like AVG or Avast, which after a 30 second installation requires no further interaction for as long as you use it - and they are both free too! Avast uses 40mb of RAM to run in the background on my laptop, and since I'm packing 3GB of RAM, I'm not really concerned about how terribly my performance is degraded by anti-virus software.



    Additionally, COMODO Internet Security comes with one of the best personal firewall technologies available at present. And whole package installs in just a few minutes, likely less. and it is another set and forget setup.



    And Apple is recommending their users to have AV software installed nowadays as well.
  • Reply 329 of 343
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    And Apple is recommending their users to have AV software installed nowadays as well.



    Sure about that?
  • Reply 330 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


    I don't want to get in the middle of an anti-virus fight, but just thought I'd add my limited experience with AVG.



    I told a friend of mine, who couldn't afford to pay for anti-virus software, to download AVG for his laptop. I helped him out installing it so I saw that it was installed and running, but he would still get some kind of virus about every other month. I don't know why or how, but I do know he visited porn sites a lot. AVG detected the virus and told him it was there, but never prevented him from getting it nor could get rid of it. Is this typical of AVG?



    Nope. He might have virus already in his system when he installed AVG. As a general rule for all AV software (and some nasty viruses), preventing infection is much easier than removing infection.
  • Reply 331 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post


    Sure about that?



    Pretty sure. You can Google for that.



    Don't know why, though. I can't recall seeing any article about specific virus threat emerging on Mac platform, so it could be just a common precaution.
  • Reply 332 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Pretty sure. You can Google for that.



    Don't know why, though. I can't recall seeing any article about specific virus threat emerging on Mac platform, so it could be just a common precaution.



    A few months ago, a long-outdated web page of Apple's got picked up by the undiscriminating news services. Apple has no such recommendation in recent history and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
  • Reply 333 of 343
    Ok... I'm assuming you're comparing a similar sized (13.3" notebook).



    I've configured the only HP 13.3" notebook available to match the specs you claim to have, and the specs that are in the comparable MacBook. $739 vs. $1299.



    Differences:



    Processor> HP has an AMD 2.2Ghz. MacBook has a Core2Duo2.0. Advantage: MacBook.

    Memory Type: HP uses DDR2. MacBook uses DDR3. Advantage: MacBook.

    Memory> HP has a free upgrade to 3GB RAM. MacBook has 2GB. Advantage: HP.

    Hard Drive> HP has a free upgrade to 320GB. MacBook has 160GB standard. Advantage: HP.

    Graphics Card> HP has a 64MB ATI HD3200. MacBook has 256MB GeForce 9400M. Huge advantage: MacBook.

    Graphics ports> HP has better options built-in. Advantage: HP.

    Operating System> HP has Vista Home Premium. MacBook has OS X 10.5, with an option to install Windows. Huge advantage: MacBook.



    And I think you mean you use your PC card slot for a cellular broadband adapter (not wireless broadband, which you have built-in). Which you can get with a tiny USB stick for the MacBook.



    Anyway, the HP is a decent looking machine. If not for the OS, I would consider the differences (even the huge difference in construction quality and the graphics card) minimal enough to go with the HP. But the OS wins every time. It is well worth the Apple "tax" to get an OS that just works, and works the way I want it to work. If I were on a tight enough budget that I couldn't afford the unibody MacBook and would be forced to get something for less, I would go with the white MacBook. But that's me. If you, unlike me, can tolerate Windows (or are ignorant of or indifferent to the joy of using the Mac OS) then the HP is the right machine for you.



    In fact, I AM using a white MacBook, first generation Core Duo, and if someone offered me the HP for free in exchange for my MacBook, I'd tell them to stuff it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Mate...



    My NZ$1500 (US$700) HP has, gee, gigabit ethernet. a/b/g/n wireless. Decent webcam with 2 noise-cancellation mikes. 3D drive guard. Fingerprint reader. Bluetooth. Is based on latest Montevina platform. And so on. And it is NZ$800 cheaper than unibody Macbook.



    You started your post correctly, though; with "Oh, gee, I don't know". Things like Bluetooth, Gigabit network... are common for some time now. It is really discouraging entering discussion with people who think PCs in general are still in late '90.



    No, my laptop does not have magnetic latch. You really reckon it is so important..? And it is plastic (though it does not crack). And no backlight keyboard. And no DisplayPort (thanks God for that!). And DVD is not slot-loading.



    But it does have Firewire. Standard composite video output (so I can plug it to any TV with 5$ cable). PC card (which I use for wireless broadband adapter). Basic battery gives only 6 hours 15 minutes idle, 4 - 5 hours light work (email, Internet with wireless, document typing/reading). But I can swap basic battery with stronger one and add secondary battery which will increase weight but will give me easily 15 hours of autonomy (which is great for whole day on the beach, camping weekend, or those pesky international flights - which, for us Kiwis, almost every one is). And my DVD is LightScribe capable and can easily be removed (without opening case) and replaced with BR drive.



    And it is still NZ$800 cheaper than MacBook that does not have some of above mentioned things even as option.



    So... what is your point..?



    Anyway... what makes iSight camera so special? Beside cool name? I recall old external one was very high end with glass optics, auto-focus etc, but built-in one seems to be pretty ordinary..?



  • Reply 334 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    (Please wait)



    You can say that again!

  • Reply 335 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Ok... I'm assuming you're comparing a similar sized (13.3" notebook).



    I've configured the only HP 13.3" notebook available to match the specs you claim to have, and the specs that are in the comparable MacBook. $739 vs. $1299.



    Differences:



    Processor> HP has an AMD 2.2Ghz. MacBook has a Core2Duo2.0. Advantage: MacBook.

    Memory Type: HP uses DDR2. MacBook uses DDR3. Advantage: MacBook.

    Memory> HP has a free upgrade to 3GB RAM. MacBook has 2GB. Advantage: HP.

    Hard Drive> HP has a free upgrade to 320GB. MacBook has 160GB standard. Advantage: HP.

    Graphics Card> HP has a 64MB ATI HD3200. MacBook has 256MB GeForce 9400M. Huge advantage: MacBook.

    Graphics ports> HP has better options built-in. Advantage: HP.

    Operating System> HP has Vista Home Premium. MacBook has OS X 10.5, with an option to install Windows. Huge advantage: MacBook.



    And I think you mean you use your PC card slot for a cellular broadband adapter (not wireless broadband, which you have built-in). Which you can get with a tiny USB stick for the MacBook.



    Anyway, the HP is a decent looking machine. If not for the OS, I would consider the differences (even the huge difference in construction quality and the graphics card) minimal enough to go with the HP. But the OS wins every time. It is well worth the Apple "tax" to get an OS that just works, and works the way I want it to work. If I were on a tight enough budget that I couldn't afford the unibody MacBook and would be forced to get something for less, I would go with the white MacBook. But that's me. If you, unlike me, can tolerate Windows (or are ignorant of or indifferent to the joy of using the Mac OS) then the HP is the right machine for you.



    In fact, I AM using a white MacBook, first generation Core Duo, and if someone offered me the HP for free in exchange for my MacBook, I'd tell them to stuff it.



    No, for this little exercise I was comparing my 15.4" HP 6730b notebook. Personally, I'm finding 13" a bit uncomfortably small, though portability does benefit. But that was not the point.



    Point was that things like /n wireless, gigabit network... are common nowadays; they should not be noticed as special advantages as you can find them on very cheap systems. Aluminium unibody case? Check. LED display? Check. But Bluetooth and other common and very affordable things... nope. I had a feeling you've just added them to your list to make it bigger, thus more valid as an argument.



    I don't have wireless broadband built in... just wireless network But yes, I was referring to cellular, or as it is more often called in NZ, mobile broadband card. I know of USB sticks, however, it is huge advantage for me to have adapter firmly plugged into my notebook so that I don't have to remove it when moving laptop.



    Anyway. I fully believe you would pay current premium, and possibly more for OSX experience. And I don't have any problems with that. There are a lot of individual factors related to OS experience in general. But can you accept that for me, Vista works fine, and that I am perfectly happy with it; that I have old P4 system in office, a bit less old AMD X2 at home (my previous desktop), my new Core 2 Quad desktop, my C2D HP laptop and my wife's C2D Toshiba laptop, all running different flavours of Vista, and I did not have any problems with them that I could blame on Vista.



    So my personal experience is completely different than yours, still it is as valid for me as yours is valid for you. And starting from my experience - sorry I can't start from yours - I don't have enough to justify price difference between platforms, though I would like to check on OSX a bit more than I had chance to so far (pretty much none).



    That is pretty much all there is.
  • Reply 336 of 343
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,240member
    What about the time I wasted reformatting my hard drive and reinstalling all of my drivers 8 times in two years Microsoft?



    Never again.
  • Reply 337 of 343
    marvmmarvm Posts: 3member




    oh please MAC VS PC , BLAH BLAH BLAH



    Look P.C. Are more popular thus making them a bigger target for Businesses to build stuff for and neredo wells to attack. MACS are only superior through obscurity and lesser network proliferation. TBH I have both on my home network and I have to maintain an environment at work that has a nice mix of both , and Attackers go up against the macs just as hard as they do the PC there. NOt bacuse one is better and one is not not.



    Please The pretentious masses that own P.C. and go look at me I can do anything better than you and the Prententious clique of Mac owner responding haughtily NO you can't is Ridiculous. and anyone who extols the virtues of one and malign the other is a fool and has no clear understanding of computers or Marketing or public opinion. I mean enough with the Attack ads and lets get products that are more efficient processing devices , more cross platform capability. Smaller Kernels to allow smaller devices and get people computing in the sunlight and moving more, interacting more.



    And as a parting shot to MAC users I offer this .... the only difference between MAC and PC now is the OS (did you forget that MAC have for a long time adopted the same Chipsets as Higer end PCs like Micron and Alienware!) , yet I still see MACS running Vista (now for the PC kick in the Pants..) Funny thing is VISTA runs WAYYYY batter on my expensive MAC than it does on my cheaper PC (to be fair it Runs just as good on my expensive PC as well)



    Get over it Both of you MACS are nothing more than Multi OS capable High end PC's

    and cheap PC for the masses are nothing more than MAC wannabe's I mean Really VISTA looks an AWFUl lot like OSX !

  • Reply 338 of 343
    marvmmarvm Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dunks View Post


    What about the time I wasted reformatting my hard drive and reinstalling all of my drivers 8 times in two years Microsoft?



    Never again.



    Most often that is a result of lack of user ability. I know MAC users that have the same problem , but they are lucky the MAC is more forgiving of mistakes that would reduce a PC to a BLUE SCREEN dmanation. My mom had that same complaint and she wound up taking a course at the community college , and lo and behold her problems lessened , she also stopped downloading and instzllign every FAD rpogram out here and filliung her pc with them (Underinitiated users + bad programmming from 3rd party vendors + BAd MS programming = CRASHOLA)



    And yep it will happen again , as your mac willbecome popular those bad 3rd arty programmers will rush code ou the Door to make it to market which will result
  • Reply 339 of 343
    marvmmarvm Posts: 3member
    [QUOTE=tonton;1402509]Ok... I'm assuming you're comparing a similar sized (13.3" notebook).



    I've configured the only HP 13.3" notebook available to match the specs you claim to have, and the specs that are in the comparable MacBook. $739 vs. $1299.



    Differences:



    Processor> HP has an AMD 2.2Ghz. MacBook has a Core2Duo2.0. Advantage: MacBook.

    Memory Type: HP (SNIP!!!!!)



    Bleah BLAH BLUEGH!



    Look you are comparing a low end AMD single Core VS a multicore MAC



    Dont mean the MAC is better just this model. Again its like SAying MY Ferrari (MACBOOK) can kick you PC (FORD TAURUS) Butt ! Well DUH yes it can



    MACS are by Current design made to be higher end and more Boutique so they are afforded more high end Bells and Whistles at thier idea of "LOW END" where as a LOW End PC is just a bit better than an ABacus and a lightbulb



    Apples (pun intended ) and Oranges people.
  • Reply 340 of 343
    Bottom line: Microsoft lies. The market will figure it out, and MS will lose.



    Basic rule of salesmanship: if you have to lie about your competition, you've already lost.



    I'm adept enough to solve most problems on my PC and Mac, but sine I do not get paid to fix PC problems, and they can be lengthy and take lots of revenue generating time away from me, I set it aside when I can to use the Mac.



    Simple.
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