Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
Apple figure out what exactly?
Apple is a single vendor, yet you compare them to the entire offering of the pc world. There is not a single Major PC vendor where you can custom built PC with absolutely any compent that you want added.
Sure there are smaller shops that may build a pc to your exact standards, but they are not a major vendor like Dell, HP, ect...
So why are you trying to hold Apple to a standard that you don't Hold Dell, HP, Gateway (and on and on).
Surely you're not trying to say that you can go to Dell's website, pick out the cheapest notebook model and tell them that you want it with 2.33 GHz C2D, throw in an ATI X1950, DVD Burner, 802.11 Draft N, or anything else you can think of.
Nevermind, you can't. So stop bashing Apple because they can't do it either!
Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
You're talking about Apple trying to match the combined offerings of all the PC manufacturers in the world. Yes, they could follow suit to a certain degree and offer the MacBook 3000, MacBook 3500, MacBook 4000, MacBook 4000GT, MacBook 4000GTS, etc, in which your desire would probably be catered for, but Apple's product emphasis is always on simplicity, consumer-awareness and clarity of choice. By doing this, I guess they do alienate the small minority of consumers who want a very custom BTO computer, but i think they'd lose out financially if they turned these priorities around.
It's the same story for the many users in these forums who want an Apple mid-range tower with no monitor. I'm sure if Apple saw a viable market and strategy in custom BTO Apple computers they would take it, but i reckon they may be happy enough where they are at the minute - and the share price ain't disagreeing.
Or go to the PC side, which is offering more flexibility here, sadly.
That's in part because there are a half dozen major manufacturers, and if you don't have a preference for brand, then you get a lot of choices. If you chose on brand first, then that's quite limiting, isn't it? One valid point is that many makers, even those with a market a lot smaller than Apple, seem to offer more models, whereas Apple basically only has three notebook models, one or two of them simply priced out of the typical notebook market, depending on your point of view.
Is this speculation or do you have a source? IMO, the MacBook GPU will always be integrated. I reckon they'll probably upgrade it to the (integrated) GMA3000 next, which is actually a lot better than the 950.
That's like saying Mac's will always have 4MB of RAM.
Apple is a single vendor, yet you compare them to the entire offering of the pc world. There is not a single Major PC vendor where you can custom built PC with absolutely any compent that you want added.
Sure there are smaller shops that may build a pc to your exact standards, but they are not a major vendor like Dell, HP, ect...
So why are you trying to hold Apple to a standard that you don't Hold Dell, HP, Gateway (and on and on).
Surely you're not trying to say that you can go to Dell's website, pick out the cheapest notebook model and tell them that you want it with 2.33 GHz C2D, throw in an ATI X1950, DVD Burner, 802.11 Draft N, or anything else you can think of.
Nevermind, you can't. So stop bashing Apple because they can't do it either!
Oh, please.
The guy isn't asking for a notebook custom-configured to the subatomic level, he just wants a better GPU than stock. This is NOT that hard to do. Wander on over to Dell's site... you can order a laptop similar in price to the MacBook, but WITH a better (Nvidia) GPU than the stock Intel one if you so choose, and not for a back-breaking cost delta either ($129).
It's easy to cry "Oh no, we're only Apple, we can't do it", but that's just going to hold us back. Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
It's certainly not 'bashing' to point out that there are some things Apple could be doing better to cater to what potential customers actually WANT. Good lord man, it isn't chair-chucking Steve Ballmer saying these things, its people who WANT TO BUY MACS.
That's in part because there are a half dozen major manufacturers, and if you don't have a preference for brand, then you get a lot of choices. If you chose on brand first, then that's quite limiting, isn't it? One valid point is that many makers, even those with a market a lot smaller than Apple, seem to offer more models, whereas Apple basically only has three notebook models, one or two of them simply priced out of the typical notebook market, depending on your point of view.
It isn't even that, really. It isn't a matter of having a lot of models, more being willing to customize to a good extent what models you do offer
Dell does. Apple could. But it chooses not to, beyond the most basic options. They could do better here, but I guess they figure that since they're selling all they can make right now, they do not HAVE to. That's short-sighted, IMO. \
The guy isn't asking for a notebook custom-configured to the subatomic level, he just wants a better GPU than stock. This is NOT that hard to do. Wander on over to Dell's site... you can order a laptop similar in price to the MacBook, but WITH a better (Nvidia) GPU than the stock Intel one if you so choose, and not for a back-breaking cost delta either ($129).
It's easy to cry "Oh no, we're only Apple, we can't do it", but that's just going to hold us back. Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
Because there are compromises that are needed to be made to make a notebook that someone wants to buy. Apple's notebooks are often a half an inch thinner than a Dell equivalent, I imagine that puts a damper on the ability to fit connectors and modules in.
Because there are compromises that are needed to be made to make a notebook that someone wants to buy. Apple's notebooks are often a half an inch thinner than a Dell equivalent, I imagine that puts a damper on the ability to fit connectors and modules in.
More like less than an eighth of an inch.
The Dell notebook I cite is 1.20 inches thick. The MacBook is 1.08. If less than an eighth of an inch is what's holding us back, I'd take a sliver thicker MacBook that had more customizability, thanks. I imagine I'd be far from alone in that. 8)
Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
In assessing in what what Apple should do with its notebooks you need to look past your own personal wish list and realize Apple is making these for the hundreds of thousands of other people buying them.
I agree Apple could operate more the way Dell does. But should it?
You cannot just look at what Dell does and suggest Apple should do the same. The two companies work with completely different philosophies and use different business practices.
Dell is a success at dominating market share, its production is geared towards being an efficient distributor, but does not make much profit and its stock is stagnant.
Apple's strength is nearly the exact opposite.
Quote:
The black MacBook should have had a real GPU.
There are enough things missing from the MacBook that differentiate it from the Pro line...
Express Card slot, FW800, illuminated keyboard, full size DVI connector.
I doubt Apple could add all of this keeping the black Macbook at the same price with the same profit margin.
Quote:
And I fully agree. Right now the 'black tax' on the MacBook isn't worth paying.
That may be true for you, but seeing the Macbook sales this is not true for everyone else.
I do find it interesting though that under an article that states Apple will continue to sell more laptops than it ever has before. People set out to criticize that very laptop responsible for the record breaking sales.
I do find it interesting though that under an article that states Apple will continue to sell more laptops than it ever has before. People set out to criticize that very laptop responsible for the record breaking sales.
That's a non-issue for purposes of the current discussion, though. It may very well be that Apple would sell even MORE laptops if only it would address some of the criticisms that we've been discussing.
What's the old adage? "Success obscures a variety of sins." Let's not be Apple apologists or bashers here- let's be happy that Apple is doing well, while at the same time realizing that they could be doing even better. 8)
We can take it back to the fact that the far majority of laptops today are using integrated graphics. Even when Dell offers an dedicated graphics for additional price most people don't take it.
Its highly doubtful Apple would sell more Macbook's simply because of the GPU. Apple knows this which is the reason for the current configurations. Which also why Apple is currently making money hand over fist.
We can take it back to the fact that the far majority of laptops today are using integrated graphics. Even when Dell offers an dedicated graphics for additional price most people don't take it.
That's why they call it 'customizing'. If everyone chose it, it would be stock. Everyone doesn't choose Apple's customization of larger hard drives either, yet Apple still offers it. Why? Because a significant minority of users want it, and are willing to pay for it.
Quote:
Its highly doubtful Apple would sell more Macbook's simply because of the GPU.
Interesting, considering that Apple seems to feel that it would sell more iMacs by offering a choice on GPU.
You do know that Apple ALREADY offers a choice to upgrade the GPU in the iMac line, for both the 20-inch and 24-inch models, right? These are not prohibitively expensive 'pro' machines either, but consumer desktops. So it's not really a big leap to 'extend the love' to the consumer MacBook line-up. 8)
Comments
Or go to the PC side, which is offering more flexibility here, sadly.
.
Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
Apple figure out what exactly?
Apple is a single vendor, yet you compare them to the entire offering of the pc world. There is not a single Major PC vendor where you can custom built PC with absolutely any compent that you want added.
Sure there are smaller shops that may build a pc to your exact standards, but they are not a major vendor like Dell, HP, ect...
So why are you trying to hold Apple to a standard that you don't Hold Dell, HP, Gateway (and on and on).
Surely you're not trying to say that you can go to Dell's website, pick out the cheapest notebook model and tell them that you want it with 2.33 GHz C2D, throw in an ATI X1950, DVD Burner, 802.11 Draft N, or anything else you can think of.
Nevermind, you can't. So stop bashing Apple because they can't do it either!
Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
You're talking about Apple trying to match the combined offerings of all the PC manufacturers in the world. Yes, they could follow suit to a certain degree and offer the MacBook 3000, MacBook 3500, MacBook 4000, MacBook 4000GT, MacBook 4000GTS, etc, in which your desire would probably be catered for, but Apple's product emphasis is always on simplicity, consumer-awareness and clarity of choice. By doing this, I guess they do alienate the small minority of consumers who want a very custom BTO computer, but i think they'd lose out financially if they turned these priorities around.
It's the same story for the many users in these forums who want an Apple mid-range tower with no monitor. I'm sure if Apple saw a viable market and strategy in custom BTO Apple computers they would take it, but i reckon they may be happy enough where they are at the minute - and the share price ain't disagreeing.
BTW, doesn't Apple have more than one manufacturer besides Asustek making the MacBook now?
Or go to the PC side, which is offering more flexibility here, sadly.
That's in part because there are a half dozen major manufacturers, and if you don't have a preference for brand, then you get a lot of choices. If you chose on brand first, then that's quite limiting, isn't it? One valid point is that many makers, even those with a market a lot smaller than Apple, seem to offer more models, whereas Apple basically only has three notebook models, one or two of them simply priced out of the typical notebook market, depending on your point of view.
Is this speculation or do you have a source? IMO, the MacBook GPU will always be integrated. I reckon they'll probably upgrade it to the (integrated) GMA3000 next, which is actually a lot better than the 950.
That's like saying Mac's will always have 4MB of RAM.
Apple figure out what exactly?
Apple is a single vendor, yet you compare them to the entire offering of the pc world. There is not a single Major PC vendor where you can custom built PC with absolutely any compent that you want added.
Sure there are smaller shops that may build a pc to your exact standards, but they are not a major vendor like Dell, HP, ect...
So why are you trying to hold Apple to a standard that you don't Hold Dell, HP, Gateway (and on and on).
Surely you're not trying to say that you can go to Dell's website, pick out the cheapest notebook model and tell them that you want it with 2.33 GHz C2D, throw in an ATI X1950, DVD Burner, 802.11 Draft N, or anything else you can think of.
Nevermind, you can't. So stop bashing Apple because they can't do it either!
Oh, please.
The guy isn't asking for a notebook custom-configured to the subatomic level, he just wants a better GPU than stock. This is NOT that hard to do. Wander on over to Dell's site... you can order a laptop similar in price to the MacBook, but WITH a better (Nvidia) GPU than the stock Intel one if you so choose, and not for a back-breaking cost delta either ($129).
It's easy to cry "Oh no, we're only Apple, we can't do it", but that's just going to hold us back. Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
It's certainly not 'bashing' to point out that there are some things Apple could be doing better to cater to what potential customers actually WANT. Good lord man, it isn't chair-chucking Steve Ballmer saying these things, its people who WANT TO BUY MACS.
.
That's in part because there are a half dozen major manufacturers, and if you don't have a preference for brand, then you get a lot of choices. If you chose on brand first, then that's quite limiting, isn't it? One valid point is that many makers, even those with a market a lot smaller than Apple, seem to offer more models, whereas Apple basically only has three notebook models, one or two of them simply priced out of the typical notebook market, depending on your point of view.
It isn't even that, really. It isn't a matter of having a lot of models, more being willing to customize to a good extent what models you do offer
Dell does. Apple could. But it chooses not to, beyond the most basic options. They could do better here, but I guess they figure that since they're selling all they can make right now, they do not HAVE to. That's short-sighted, IMO.
.
Oh, please.
The guy isn't asking for a notebook custom-configured to the subatomic level, he just wants a better GPU than stock. This is NOT that hard to do. Wander on over to Dell's site... you can order a laptop similar in price to the MacBook, but WITH a better (Nvidia) GPU than the stock Intel one if you so choose, and not for a back-breaking cost delta either ($129).
It's easy to cry "Oh no, we're only Apple, we can't do it", but that's just going to hold us back. Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
Because there are compromises that are needed to be made to make a notebook that someone wants to buy. Apple's notebooks are often a half an inch thinner than a Dell equivalent, I imagine that puts a damper on the ability to fit connectors and modules in.
I just wish Apple would put a better GPU in the MacBook. That would get me to order one.
The black MacBook should have had a real GPU.
There are enough things missing from the MacBook that differentiate it from the Pro line...
Express Card slot, FW800, illuminated keyboard, full size DVI connector
Because there are compromises that are needed to be made to make a notebook that someone wants to buy. Apple's notebooks are often a half an inch thinner than a Dell equivalent, I imagine that puts a damper on the ability to fit connectors and modules in.
More like less than an eighth of an inch.
The Dell notebook I cite is 1.20 inches thick. The MacBook is 1.08. If less than an eighth of an inch is what's holding us back, I'd take a sliver thicker MacBook that had more customizability, thanks. I imagine I'd be far from alone in that. 8)
.
The black MacBook should have had a real GPU.
There are enough things missing from the MacBook that differentiate it from the Pro line...
Express Card slot, FW800, illuminated keyboard, full size DVI connector
Not to mention the much better speakers on the Pro line.
And I fully agree. Right now the 'black tax' on the MacBook isn't worth paying.
.
Apple does a great many things that Dell can't do, or can't do right, and yet we argue for our limitations, why?
In assessing in what what Apple should do with its notebooks you need to look past your own personal wish list and realize Apple is making these for the hundreds of thousands of other people buying them.
I agree Apple could operate more the way Dell does. But should it?
You cannot just look at what Dell does and suggest Apple should do the same. The two companies work with completely different philosophies and use different business practices.
Dell is a success at dominating market share, its production is geared towards being an efficient distributor, but does not make much profit and its stock is stagnant.
Apple's strength is nearly the exact opposite.
The black MacBook should have had a real GPU.
There are enough things missing from the MacBook that differentiate it from the Pro line...
Express Card slot, FW800, illuminated keyboard, full size DVI connector.
I doubt Apple could add all of this keeping the black Macbook at the same price with the same profit margin.
And I fully agree. Right now the 'black tax' on the MacBook isn't worth paying.
That may be true for you, but seeing the Macbook sales this is not true for everyone else.
I do find it interesting though that under an article that states Apple will continue to sell more laptops than it ever has before. People set out to criticize that very laptop responsible for the record breaking sales.
That's a non-issue for purposes of the current discussion, though. It may very well be that Apple would sell even MORE laptops if only it would address some of the criticisms that we've been discussing.
What's the old adage? "Success obscures a variety of sins." Let's not be Apple apologists or bashers here- let's be happy that Apple is doing well, while at the same time realizing that they could be doing even better. 8)
.
Its highly doubtful Apple would sell more Macbook's simply because of the GPU. Apple knows this which is the reason for the current configurations. Which also why Apple is currently making money hand over fist.
We can take it back to the fact that the far majority of laptops today are using integrated graphics. Even when Dell offers an dedicated graphics for additional price most people don't take it.
That's why they call it 'customizing'. If everyone chose it, it would be stock. Everyone doesn't choose Apple's customization of larger hard drives either, yet Apple still offers it. Why? Because a significant minority of users want it, and are willing to pay for it.
Its highly doubtful Apple would sell more Macbook's simply because of the GPU.
Interesting, considering that Apple seems to feel that it would sell more iMacs by offering a choice on GPU.
You do know that Apple ALREADY offers a choice to upgrade the GPU in the iMac line, for both the 20-inch and 24-inch models, right? These are not prohibitively expensive 'pro' machines either, but consumer desktops. So it's not really a big leap to 'extend the love' to the consumer MacBook line-up. 8)
.